Sammy115 vs Abbey * SETTLED IN FULL ********

[sammy115]

I received this letter yesterday and wondered if you could all help.

 

The 'judge' has considered the statements of case and allocation questionaires submitted in this claim and has decided that a hearing is necessary before a final decision about allocation can be made.

 

Reasons for the hearing are as follows:

 

1. To examine the merits of the claim

2. To examine the merits of the defence

3. To enquiry(sic) what expert evidence should be allowed for each party.

4. Whether the case should be a SCT one or such other track as the parties suggest and the court decides.

 

The 'judge' orders you to attend at 14:00 on the 10th October 2006 at the court.

 

I have a couple of questions. I am quite prepared to pull together my 'court pack' as recommended in the library and take that along, but am I doing the right thing.

 

Has anyone else had this? If so any advice.

 

Is SCT small claims track?

 

I now have brown pants on, although I am quite prepared to go all the way!

[Odd Fellow]

I think you will need to tell us what this case is for.

 

Odd

[sammy115]

It is for my claim against Abbey for bank charges. Story so far.

 

Claim online for £4,000 bank charges (including interest)

Defended by Abbey on usual grounds.

50% offered by DLA Piper and refused by me.

Allocation questionaire completed by me.

Allocation questionaire completed by DLA Piper stating they were going to use 'expert evidence'.

Judge ordered that Abbey declare details of their 'expert evidence'

Abbey declared that their 'expert evidence' would be the foresenic accountant stuff that I think Karnevil has detailed in his thread.

 

Now a judge has ordered that both parties attend Court next Tuesday to discuss the 'merits' of the case and to decide which track the case should be in.

[Glenn UK]

Bascially they wil decide if the case is simple and needs any expert evidence and if a couple of hours would see it done.

 

You need to bone up on the case you have and all the arguments which basically explain why the charges are penalties and unlawful.

 

I would suggest you also need to get the ideas into your head about why their charges represent a signficnat over estimate of their actual costs. THe basic arguments are set out in the FAQs i believe.

 

I have a report sent to the chancelloer of the exchequer which sets out typical costs for typical banking activites on current accounts if you need a link.

 

You may also want to introduce the number of claims that are being brought agaisnt Abbey which they are failing to defend in court having entered a defend, completed their AQ and obtained hearing dates.

 

This would need to be in the form of a table/list of cases or something like that rather than a general statement.

 

If you havent been to court before, dont be too worried, concetrate on getting things straight in your head, get your court bundle together whuich will help you prepare yourself.

 

If you have things straight in your head and are wll prepared then when and if necessary you will be able to put across any information you need to.

 

If you do want support in court then unless you have a suitable freind then you need to be trying to ifnd a 'buddy' now really.

 

JMHO

 

GLenn

[sammy115]

Hi Glenn

 

Thanks for your advice - really useful. Could you pm me the report? Is that possible. Also any advice on where I might find the statistics on the cases that Abbey are defending (or even capitulated on) for my table. Is that on the forum somewhere - or is it a case of just reading through the posts and adding it up.

 

Not a problem either way, I am more than prepared to put the legwork in. I am also quite happy to trot off to court too. Its in Redditch by the way, so if anyone is in the vicinity I will be more than happy for the support.

[Glenn UK]

This link should take you to the home page of the report, chapter seven gives the indication of costs for some standard operations.

 

Banking Review Final Report

 

Re list i am not sure whether theres a list compiled already if there isn't then its counting up the info available I'm afraid.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

[sammy115]

Hi ho hi ho its off to court I go. In work till 1.30 then off to court. No offer as yet though i left before the post, so we shall see. Will log back on later and tell what happens.

 

Glenn - not forgotten, a little stressed, too much going on, may ring you later

[martingump]

Best of luck!

 

I wonder if Abbey will eventually disclose what the actual costs of a bounced cheque/direct debit are? Or the costs they incur when they pay an item on a customers behalf, sending them in to Overdraft?

 

I'll watch in anticipation, as I have issued Count Court papers on the Abbey in the last 2 weeks.

[karencupit]

Hope it went ok for you today Sammy!! Keep us posted!

 

karen x

[KatieHornsby]

Hope it went well, sending my letter before action next week so it will be interesting to know what happened!! Go girl!!!

 

Katie xx

[srfrench]

Well..... come on then....... how did it go?

 

:o

[sammy115]

LOL, sorry I got locked out and had to go to my friends. I was so hyped up she gave me a drink, so now here I sit three sheets to the wind.

 

What did I learn. - take a bloody pen with you for a start!!!

 

AND

 

The judge was totally on my side. He was lovely. Abbey wanted to fast track my claim - although it was under 5k they said with the two 'expert' witnessess they wanted to produce it would take the trial to three days, thus costs would be exorbitant ( maybe hoping I would capitulate and give up).

 

However, my judge disagreed - it actually only seemed to be a conversation between Abbey and the judge (it was someone instructed on behalf of DLA Piper by the way). He deemed the forensic expert advice okay but the 'banking industry expert' they wanted to produce should be a senior member of Abbey bank and not an 'expert'. Basically he decided that three hours was enough time (given the number of cases going on all over the country at the moment). He actually did state at one point that surely the bank must already have the expert evidence to hand.

 

So what is next. He set a timetable. I am to produce in the next fourteen days, for the benefit of the court, a schedule of the charges (this has already been sent to DLA - not to the court) along with a detailed explanation of why I think the charges are unfair. Abbey then have fourteen days after that to produce their expert evidences report. I then have fourteen further days to question the expert evidence. Then we both have 28 days to produce a bundle of documents. (that DLA have to help me with, as I am not an expert) and then a date for trial will be set for Feb. UNLESS as the judge pointed out - a case is heard in the meantime.

 

The judge asked me if i had anything to add - I told him I was going to be my expert witness. He laughed and said me and the expertise of the CAG website.

 

I am sure that if the bank produce an expert witness a pig may fly across the sky - but who knows. One thing I am sure of is I am not scared and more than happy to go to court again. Although I may take a pen next time.

[Glenn UK]

HI Sammy

 

Glad it went OK, did DLA/Abbey say who their experts were going to be?

 

GLenn

[ellemmjay]

Good for you Sammy

 

I have utmost respect for those of us who have had to appear in Court

 

Best Wishes and watch out for the postman.....

 

Elle

[KatieHornsby]

Well done sammy!!

 

If I have to go to court I will be taking some tips from you.

 

xx

[sammy115]

Okay - I have kind of recovered now, and I need to do my bit first. The judge said that as I filed my claim online and there is limited space to detail my claim, I must send a statement into the court as to why I think my charges are unfair along with a breakdown of my charges. Any clues as to what to put. I have looked in the library and looked at the N1 form details, but it doesn't seem to go into very much detail as to why I think the charges are unfair. Can anyone help with the wording.

 

I have about 11 days left. Then Abbey have another 14 days to send in their evidence!

[CrispDust]

Maybe we should have some special CAG pens made up?

[KatieHornsby]

Hi there,

 

Did you manage to write your statement? Should it not say something about the charges being unfair as they do not reflect their true costs, and you have asked them to provide proof of that and they haven't?? Don't quote me till you know for sure though!!

I'm watching your case as I am serving court papers on Abbey soon, I do think you are very brave and we are all right behind you.

 

Katie xx

[Armsoft]

Sammy, When your able too, an update would be great as there are obviously a number of us who have either entered a claim, or are about too (mines going in on Friday for Refund and Failing to comply with DPA request) and would welcome any hints/tips you may have to help us move forward.

Thanks

[sammy115]

I haven't written my statement yet. I will aim to do it tonight and post on here to see if everyone agrees.

 

The other development is that Abbey have served a notice of default on me. The difference between what I owe them and my bank charges is £1700, which I can't afford to pay. I have been paying it at £150 per month but they have never ever said what would be acceptable as a monthly payment (except the full amount).

 

Will post later.

[jannercobbler]

Search for banking code? there is something in that which should stop them in their tracks (i'm sure someone will point out the thread) Basically the account is in dispute so they can't take action.

 

I would also add to your statement / Claim that you require the removal of ALL defaults as part of the settlement. And nothing else will suffice.

[sammy115]

Okay - the judge asked me for a statement of why I thought the charges were unfair, along with a list of said charges, as the amount of space on the moneyclaim did not give much room to expand. Do you think the below statement is enough or should I expand. I would love to put a bit more. Obviously this statement is just taken out of the library.

 

Can i also ask that as I requested 'interest pursuant to s69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum' which stood at £668.06 at the time of claiming in June. Does this continue to go up whilst Abbey are arguing the toss. If so how do I explain to the court that that figure has changed (or will the judge work that one out) Any help would be appreciated as I do not want to cock this up at this stage. Abbey then have a further 14 days to provide their forensic accountants expert evidence.

 

 

 

 

PARTICULARS OF CLAIM

 

 

1. The Claimant [has] [had] an account 1 ("the Account") with the Defendant which was opened on or around 2 [and closed on or around 2 ]

 

2. During the period in which the Account [has been] [was] operating the Defendant debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged interest on the charges once applied. The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant.

 

3. A list of the charges applied is attached to these particulars of claim.

 

4. The Claimant contends that:

 

a) The charges debited to the Account are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the Defendant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

 

b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Contract Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999), the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and the common law.

 

5. Accordingly the Claimant claims:

 

a) the return of the amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £ 3 and any interest charged thereon;

 

 

b) Court costs;

 

c) Interest pursuant to section 69 County Courts Act as set out on the attached list of charges or at such rate and for such periods as the court deems just.

 

I believe that the contents of these particulars of claim are true

[rogerebaker]

I haven't written my statement yet. I will aim to do it tonight and post on here to see if everyone agrees.

 

The other development is that Abbey have served a notice of default on me. The difference between what I owe them and my bank charges is £1700, which I can't afford to pay. I have been paying it at £150 per month but they have never ever said what would be acceptable as a monthly payment (except the full amount).

 

Will post later.

 

see this link to the banking code especially S.13 / 6

 

http://www.bankingcode.org.uk/pdfdocs/BANKING%20CODE.pdf

[sammy115]

karnevil - thought as much - just getting a little twitchy.

 

Rogerebaker - thanks for the link. I have been quoting the banking code to them till I am blue in the face. I am now going to the financial services ombudsmen so that link is particularly useful.

[sammy115]

Received from the court yesterday the details of my hearing on the 10th October:

 

Upon hearing the Claimant in person and Counsel for the defendant

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT

 

1. The matter be allocated to the Small Claims Track.

 

2. The Claimant do file and serve a witness statement of fact by 4.00pm on 24October 2006.

 

3. The Defendant do file and serve a witness statement of fact by 4.00pm on 7 November 2006.

 

4. Leave to the Defendant to instruct a forensic accountant to prepare a report upon the setting and calculation of charges applied to the Claimant's current account with the Defendant, such report to be provided by 4.00pm on 28 November 2006.

 

5. Any questions to the expert shall be put in writing by 4.00pm on 12 December 2006 with replies to be provided by 4.00pm on 9 January 2007.

 

6. The parties do confer and agree the documents to be included in a trial bundle, a common bundle to be lodged with the Court 14 days before the hearing by the Defendant's solicitors, to include the skeleton arguments of the parties' submissions.

 

7. The matter to be listed for hearing on the first open date after 13 February 2007(date to be advised) with a time estimate of 3 hours.

 

I am now off to file my witness statement as detailed yesterday.