Caught in Sainsbury's please help

[weezull]

Hi I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this... A week ago I was caught shoplifting carrots and stock cubes from Sainsburys. I'm not proud of this and don't know why I did it considering I spent £25 that day in store anyway. I was apprehended by the security guard with my boyfirned who took us into their back room. There I confessed fully saying that I was deeply sorry and stupid etc- the security guard 'disciplined' me to the point of making me cry ('look at you, you middle class idiot' etc) and then made us sign something and sent us on our way with a lifetime ban from Sainburys. Yesterday I received a letter from a legal company, DWF, asking both my boyfriend and I to pay £150 for 'security costs'. Thats £300 for 5 mins of the security guards time, when my boyfriend didn't do anything anyway. Now, i fully admit I am in the wrong, but this seems a little steep for carrots and stock cubes and 5 minutes of the abusive security guards time. What should my next steps be? Do i have to pay it, or can I challenge it? Please bear in mind that according to DWF I only have 3 days to pay the fine...

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG. I've moved your post to a thread of its own on the main forum.

 

I suspect the advice will be to ignore this, but hopefully the guys will be along soon with some comments for you.

 

My best, HB

[rebel11]

Hi weezull

 

Why did your boyfriend sign the paperwork? DWF have just signed a 3 year contract with Sainsbury. The best thing to do is see what they send next, then send a response asking them for a breakdown of their costs and how they can justify sending an invoice to your boyfriend who was not involved. What they have sent you is a 'speculative invoice' not a 'fine'. If you read the CAB reports on RLP, you'll see why these types of 'speculative invoices' are unfair and are just profiteering. Remember they suffered no actual loss. Lets see what they send next, if you can report back.

[weezull]

He signed because we were both completely flustered. The original letter has a breakdown of sorts:

 

'Value of goods stolen: £0

Value of goods damaged: £0

Value of cash stolent: £0

Security costs: £150'

 

What will happen if we don't pay within 7 days? Do you think we should contact them or just ignore?

[rebel11]

Hi Weezull

 

You should respond to them in writing, but don't do it straight away, lets see what they send next. Please read the CAB report.

 

http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/press_20101206

7432_CAB_unreasonable demands p6:unreasonable demands

 

The best way of dealing with this, is not to forget, but manage the situtaion. But theres nothing to be scared of. Don't let them bully you. I'd say the security guard bullyed you, which he should not have.

I think they will just send another letter after 7 days and probably another after that.

 

He signed because we were both completely flustered. The original letter has a breakdown of sorts:

 

'Value of goods stolen: £0

Value of goods damaged: £0

Value of cash stolent: £0

Security costs: £150'

 

What will happen if we don't pay within 7 days? Do you think we should contact them or just ignore?

[weezull]

So you would suggest waiting for the next letter before writing to them? I've seen a lot of people saying that, what's the difference in writing now or in writing in two weeks, if you dont mind me asking?

[rebel11]

I would wait, if you respond straight away they will feel justified in their actions, sending out 'speculative invoices', CAB saying they shouldn't be doing that.

So just up date this thread with their correspondance. Also you need to demonstrate that your in control, not them.

 

So you would suggest waiting for the next letter before writing to them? I've seen a lot of people saying that, what's the difference in writing now or in writing in two weeks, if you dont mind me asking?

[weezull]

Ok- we'll do that. I'll keep the thread updated on our actions. Thanks so much for your advice.

[2Grumpy]

Yes - wait for the second letter then respond with a single line letter "I deny any liability to you or your client" - nothing else, sent second class (for the same reason) but get a certificate of posting (free from the post office as proof of posting) & keep a copy of your letter (and all of theirs)

[weezull]

Hi guys- Just to let you know I received my second letter from DWF today. The letter reads:

 

'Dear Sirs,

 

Our client: Sainsbury's Supermarkets Ltd

Balance Due: £150

 

We write with reference to our letter dated **/**/**** and note we have not received your reply.

 

We assume this was an oversight on your part and require payment of the above balance during the course of the next 7 days.

 

[details of how to pay]

 

We await your payment or response during th course of the next 7 days.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

DWF'

 

 

The tone of this letter seems less threatening and also gives the option of 'payment or response'. Do you think we should still go ahead and write to them denying liability?

[Sidewinder]

Personally I would wait until you receive one which threatens Court action.

[Bang!]

Its a bit of a shame you shoplifted from one of the few supermarkets to be against workfare!

 

Dear Sirs,

 

As you think its OK to pay staff nothing for working there - I simply expanded that principle to you stock.

 

Yours politically....

[silverfox1961]

Just airing my thoughts here. I thought they couldn't claim security costs as they are already covered in the contract with the store and that cost is already passed on to the customers via shop prices.

If they were silly enough to try the courts, they would have to justify this 'extra' cost

 

I agree with Sidewinder, wait and see what happens. I bet a Debt Collection Agency comes on the scene next. If that happens, you know they have bought a lemon

[2Grumpy]

I would send the single line letter "I deny any liability to you or your clients" now in the hope that it will avoid the DCA hassle.

 

I suspect that the DCA collects on behalf of RLP, rather than buying them

[weezull]

Do you think they would send in the debt collectors immediately after not hearing from us? Or do you think they will send us a warning letter before doing that?

[weezull]

** i'd rather not have to deal with the debt collectors...

[silverfox1961]

Do you think they would send in the debt collectors immediately after not hearing from us? Or do you think they will send us a warning letter before doing that?

That's a fair assumption. They don't like the leg work themselves

 

** i'd rather not have to deal with the debt collectors...

 

Dealing with debt collectors is very easy. If they ring you, refuse to go through the security checks. If they continue with the call, they would be in breach of the Data Protection Act.

When you get letters just come on the forum and we can help you to ignore them. Highly unlikely any doorstep collector will call and if they did, you can tell them to bog off and they have to.

[weezull]

Hi guys- we're in the process of getting the letters sent out to DWF saying we 'deny liability', but in the meantime DWF keep calling my boyfriend's house, and leaving messages for him. We're not sure how they got his number. What should we do about this?

[2Grumpy]

Hi guys- we're in the process of getting the letters sent out to DWF saying we 'deny liability', but in the meantime DWF keep calling my boyfriend's house, and leaving messages for him. We're not sure how they got his number. What should we do about this?

 

Answer the phone (don't waste money calling them)

 

Don't go through security

 

Telling them that they have the wrong number is unlikely to work.

 

First time tell them that "you have written and will deal with the matter in writing only, that there will only be a single reply and that continued calling will be viewed as harassment" no discussion. be prepared with "I'm sorry, didn't you understand what I just said"

 

Any more times try "**** off you imbred halfwit didn't you understand what I said the first time" and any other variations that come to mind. Remember the imbred halfwit phoned you, not the other way round, so feel free to let rip

[2Grumpy]

Hi guys- we're in the process of getting the letters sent out to DWF saying we 'deny liability', but in the meantime DWF keep calling my boyfriend's house, and leaving messages for him. We're not sure how they got his number. What should we do about this?

 

You should send the same to RLP too

[rebel11]

Hi 2Grumpy

 

The Company is 'DWF', not RLP.

 

You should send the same to RLP too

[weezull]

Hi guys, Here's the latest update.

 

Yesterday I received this letter:

 

'Dear Sirs,

 

Our Client: Sainsbury's Supermarkets Limited

Balance Due: £150

 

We write with reference to our letters dated **/**/**** and **/**/**** and note we have note received your reply.

 

Should payment not be made during the course of the next 7 days we will consider commencing Court Proceedings to recover the sum outstanding.

 

If you do not pay:

- The sum outstanding may increase due to Court costs, fees and interest

- A County Court Judgment may be entered against you

- Your credit rating may be affected for up to 6 years

- A Bailiff may attend your house to remove goods to the value owed

- We may seek a Court order deducting monies from your earnings with your employer

 

If you pay now:

- No further action will be taken

 

Please pay by one of the following methods [...]

 

We await your payment or response during the course of the next 7 days.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

DWF'

 

 

We are sending off letters this morning stating we deny liability tot hem or their clients- but I am still worried.

 

Does anyone know whether DWF have taken people to court over not paying this 'balance'?

[2Grumpy]

There are no reported court cases of RLP, DWF or anyone else taking people to court for this type of thing.

 

The stores factor their security costs into their pricing. They haven't suffered an actual loss, so they won't be able to take you to court to recover that. They can't take you to court for not being gullible enough to give them extra profit.

 

Send the single line letter!

[Sidewinder]

Also, note the use of the sentence "....WE will consider commencing Court proceedings...."

 

They can't - if any obligation exists whatsoever, then Sainsburys would have to instigate proceedings, not the recovery agent!

[Locky94]

Hi, Ive had the same letter pretty much. Just cos i sprayed deodrant on my self. I've read this thread and i was wondering what to do next? Did they take you to court Weezul?