Just had CCCS DM review. Is a IVA the way to go?

[laalinz]

 

Just gone through the horrid experience of my DMP with the CCCS.

 

I got a right telling off by the consultant when I explained that a employee of NRAM had suggested we put the unsecured part of our together mortgage onto our DMP, after we had done a budget review with them.

 

The CCCS consultation gave me a right telling off and nearly had me in tears as I had "hidden a debt from them, so had broken their terms of contract". I explained that I was unaware that this loan could be added, as I thought it formed part of my mortgage.

 

She agreed to add this part of my together mortgage onto my DMP but told me to expect a telephone call and a letter from them outlining how unhappy they were with this loan being "hidden"

 

She also cut a lot of my monthly out goings down by quite a lot more then what I had worked out, but I will let it run for a few months and see if I can survive on the figures. Needless to say it was not an enjoyable telephone conversation as this is a hard position to be in.

 

She did suggest that we go down the IVA route as we had debts of £16,000 on loans, credit cards and overdrafts all combined. This unsecured loan which formed part of my together mortgage is £25,300.

 

My house is worth around £99,000 and we are on a interest only mortgage, with an outstanding balance of £98,000. We bought just before the housing market crashed!!

 

My partner is looking at a promotion at work (subject to him passing his driving test) which would make him a deputy manager in a discount superstore. Would a IVA affect his chances of this promotion. It would be quite a payrise for us. Oh and its looking like I may be facing another redundancy very soon

 

My only real question is: would a IVA be the best way forward for me?

 

I understand that my creditors have to agree to a IVA. Just how likely are NRAM to accept this? They are the only creditor who I feel may pose a problem. My others are NatWest, barclays and halifax.

 

I have one CCJ against me and I was informed that this would be added to the IVA.

 

What would be the implications of IVA route? I don't want credit again ever anyway as this stress is unreal.

 

Completely stress out mam

[laalinz]

I clashed with a CCCS advisor tonight on the telephone while doing my review. She was very sharp with me and nearly had me in tears at one point. She was very taken aback when I said I did not want to talk with her any more. She advised me that they was no one else to talk to there and I continued with the review.

 

I do feel like I am now paying a a lot more then I expected to as she kept knocking down the cost of things I said I paid out. I said I wasn't happy but would let it run for a few months and see how I coped but I already struggle every month as it is. Now my DD to CCCS has doubled

[sequenci]

Hello there.

 

What figures were reduced - and what to?

[Wintry]

 

Just gone through the horrid experience of my DMP with the CCCS.

 

I got a right telling off by the consultant when I explained that a employee of NRAM had suggested we put the unsecured part of our together mortgage onto our DMP, after we had done a budget review with them.

 

The CCCS consultation gave me a right telling off and nearly had me in tears as I had "hidden a debt from them, so had broken their terms of contract". I explained that I was unaware that this loan could be added, as I thought it formed part of my mortgage.

 

She agreed to add this part of my together mortgage onto my DMP but told me to expect a telephone call and a letter from them outlining how unhappy they were with this loan being "hidden"

 

She also cut a lot of my monthly out goings down by quite a lot more then what I had worked out, but I will let it run for a few months and see if I can survive on the figures. Needless to say it was not an enjoyable telephone conversation as this is a hard position to be in.

 

She did suggest that we go down the IVA route as we had debts of £16,000 on loans, credit cards and overdrafts all combined. This unsecured loan which formed part of my together mortgage is £25,300.

 

My house is worth around £99,000 and we are on a interest only mortgage, with an outstanding balance of £98,000. We bought just before the housing market crashed!!

 

My partner is looking at a promotion at work (subject to him passing his driving test) which would make him a deputy manager in a discount superstore. Would a IVA affect his chances of this promotion. It would be quite a payrise for us. Oh and its looking like I may be facing another redundancy very soon

 

My only real question is: would a IVA be the best way forward for me?

 

I understand that my creditors have to agree to a IVA. Just how likely are NRAM to accept this? They are the only creditor who I feel may pose a problem. My others are NatWest, barclays and halifax.

 

I have one CCJ against me and I was informed that this would be added to the IVA.

 

What would be the implications of IVA route? I don't want credit again ever anyway as this stress is unreal.

 

Completely stress out mam

 

Hi laalinz

 

Sounds like an uncomfortable experience from what you have put

 

With these together mortgages it is sometimes easy for people not to realise or understand that there is an unsecured element involved - it happens, so any 'tellings off' do not exactly help.

 

With regard to the 'suggestion' of an IVA, have CCCS given you full advice on all your options?

 

For an IVA to be a realistic option, amongst other things then you really need a stable income, also due to property being involved there will likely be a 12 month extension on the 5 years.

 

Any chance of putting up more information on your overall circumstances including the sets of expenditure figures CCCS have used for your DMP and maybe we can help you further.

 

When you go for help with your debts then you should be treated properly whoever you go to and that includes 'charities' like CCCS.

 

Best Wishes

Edited February 16, 2012 by Wintry

[laalinz]

Hi, thanks for reply

 

My partner is in a very secure job but I am waiting on redundancy news, will know in two weeks time.

 

Here's my figures. But i must add that the CCCS advisor I spoke to last night knocked very nearly every expenditure figure I gave her down, saying "thats too high".

 

Income

 

ME: £520 pm

Partner: 1,200 pm

Child tax credit: 188.00 every 4 weeks

Child benefit: 88.00 every 4 weeks

 

Outgoing:

 

Mortgage: 480 pm

water: 44 pm

council tax: 145 pm (this has arrears but the cccs advisor wanted to put 115, which is what it is without arrears)

gas 75pm

Electricity: 56 pm

 

Building/contents insurance: £18 pm

Telephone/internet: 40pm

TV Licence: £12 pm

Satellite: 23 pm

CCJ: 10 pm

Life insurance: £20 pm (I was totally grilled about what this was for)

 

Spares and car servicing: 11 pm (my car is 12 years old)

Road tax: 18 pm

Car insurance 33 pm

Breakdown: 18 pm (this is high but its because of the age of the car)

Fuel/parking: 130 pm

 

Food/cleaning products 380 pm

School meals: 30 every four weeks

pets: 23pm (I have three cats who I have had before taken on DMP and I now cannot afford insurance)

 

School trips: 6 pm

Medicine: 10 pm (my child and partner have allergies but this isn't enough to cover all plus painkillers)

dentist: 10 pm (I was asked if I really needed to wear glasses, I wear them EVERY day)

hairdressing: 28 pm (this is much less then I can pay in this area)

Clothing footwear: 45 pm

sports hobbies: 20 pm (just covers childs swimming lessons)

pocket money for child: 11 pm

 

Sundries 30 pm

loan from family: 30 pm (this is on my mams credit card as the car broke down, followed by my washer, fridge freezer and oven. I owe £800)

 

 

Debts:

 

Natwest loan £6,590 - PPI and chargers to recaim

Barclays Loan £3,455 Chargers to reclaim

Barclaycard CC £1,480.88 Chargers to recalim

Halifax Credir card £717. - chargers reclaimed halving the balance

Natwest overdraft £1,050

Barclays overdraft £1,050

Very catalogue: £906 - chargers to reclaim

Next Dirtectory: £315.10

NRAM unsecured loan £25,300.

 

I hate listing it and looking at it, makes me feel ashamed

[Guest Peer Lawther]

Hi laalinz,

 

We're sorry to hear that you're concerned about our correspondence.

 

We'd be happy to investigate your comments regarding the member of staff you spoke if you like. You can send through your details to socialmedia@cccs.co.uk and we'll forward them on to our Client Liaison team.

 

Regards,

 

Peer

[laalinz]

Thanks Peers,

 

But I do not want to take the complaint any further, I have enough stress in my life at the moment without making complaints.

 

But I have come away from the review totally dreading my next one in 4 months time..........I did even consider the possibility of seeing whether someone else would take on my DMP when I came away from the telephone call, as I felt like I had just been to see the headmaster.

 

I had to ask her to show a little more compassion as this was very stressful to be in the position I am in, but I am doing all I can to face my debts head on!!

[laalinz]

70 % of my expenditure figures were reduced by her as she said they were to high

 

 

Outgoing:

 

Mortgage: 480 pm

water: 44 pm

council tax: 145 pm (this has arrears but the cccs advisor wanted to put 115, which is what it is without arrears)

gas 75pm

Electricity: 56 pm

 

Building/contents insurance: £18 pm

Telephone/internet: 40pm

TV Licence: £12 pm

Satellite: 23 pm

CCJ: 10 pm

Life insurance: £20 pm (I was totally grilled about what this was for)

 

Spares and car servicing: 11 pm (my car is 12 years old)

Road tax: 18 pm

car insurance 33 pm

Breakdown: 10 pm

Fuel/parking: 130 pm (this is now the same as last year even though the price of fuel has gone up)

 

Food/cleaning products 380 pm (has had to stay the same as last year even though food has increased)

School meals: 30 every four weeks

pets: 23pm (I have three cats who I have had before taken on dmp and I now cannot afford insurance)

 

School trips: 6 pm

Medicine: 10 pm (my child and partner have allergies but this isn't enough to cover all plus painkillers)

dentist: 10 pm (I was asked if I really needed to wear glasses, I wear them EVERY day!!)

hairdressing: 28 pm (this is much less then I can pay in this area)

Clothing footwear: 45 pm

sports hobbies: 20 pm (just covers childs swimming lessons)

pocket money for child: 11 pm

 

Sundries 30 pm

loan from family: 30 pm (this is on my mams credit card as the car broke down, followed by my washer, fridge freezer and oven. I owe £800)

[spots1]

We use payplan and find them really good ...you don`t have to stay with the DMP you have you can change whenever you wish to ....even go it alone if you feel you could ...

[Wintry]

Hi, thanks for reply

 

My partner is in a very secure job but I am waiting on redundancy news, will know in two weeks time.

 

Here's my figures. But i must add that the CCCS advisor I spoke to last night knocked very nearly every expenditure figure I gave her down, saying "thats too high".

 

Income

 

ME: £520 pm

Partner: 1,200 pm

Child tax credit: 188.00 every 4 weeks

Child benefit: 88.00 every 4 weeks

 

Outgoing:

 

Mortgage: 480 pm

water: 44 pm

council tax: 145 pm (this has arrears but the cccs advisor wanted to put 115, which is what it is without arrears)

gas 75pm

Electricity: 56 pm

 

Building/contents insurance: £18 pm

Telephone/internet: 40pm

TV Licence: £12 pm

Satellite: 23 pm

CCJ: 10 pm

Life insurance: £20 pm (I was totally grilled about what this was for)

 

Spares and car servicing: 11 pm (my car is 12 years old)

Road tax: 18 pm

Car insurance 33 pm

Breakdown: 18 pm (this is high but its because of the age of the car)

Fuel/parking: 130 pm

 

Food/cleaning products 380 pm

School meals: 30 every four weeks

pets: 23pm (I have three cats who I have had before taken on DMP and I now cannot afford insurance)

 

School trips: 6 pm

Medicine: 10 pm (my child and partner have allergies but this isn't enough to cover all plus painkillers)

dentist: 10 pm (I was asked if I really needed to wear glasses, I wear them EVERY day)

hairdressing: 28 pm (this is much less then I can pay in this area)

Clothing footwear: 45 pm

sports hobbies: 20 pm (just covers childs swimming lessons)

pocket money for child: 11 pm

 

Sundries 30 pm

loan from family: 30 pm (this is on my mams credit card as the car broke down, followed by my washer, fridge freezer and oven. I owe £800)

 

 

Debts:

 

Natwest loan £6,590 - PPI and chargers to recaim

Barclays Loan £3,455 Chargers to reclaim

Barclaycard CC £1,480.88 Chargers to recalim

Halifax Credir card £717. - chargers reclaimed halving the balance

Natwest overdraft £1,050

Barclays overdraft £1,050

Very catalogue: £906 - chargers to reclaim

Next Dirtectory: £315.10

NRAM unsecured loan £25,300.

 

I hate listing it and looking at it, makes me feel ashamed

 

Hi laalinz

 

Thank you for putting up this information.

 

My opinion is that you will need to wait and see how it goes redundancy wise before deciding on a long term formal solution such as an IVA or bankruptcy perhaps.

 

Make sure all options are fully advised and explained and that you understand them before making any long term decisions (that are best for you and your family) it may be worth getting this advice now as a preparation for any forthcoming redundancy (always best to be prepared where possible)

 

Looking what you have put with regard to the council tax & arrears situation, well to be honest, a little ridiculous to suggest an allowance of £115 if this does not cover your current bill and any arrears - basic priority & non-priority stuff really

 

When you go for advice and enter any arrangement to deal with your debts you should not really be still struggling after or maybe getting further into debt even as it just does not make any sense.

 

Again looking at what you have put and taking inflation into account then some of it is nonsense really in my opinion.

 

Also looking at some of the figures 'allowed' compared to another set of trigger figures I am familiar with its got me scratching my bemused head a little to be honest (but maybe I should know better)

 

Another thing to keep in mind is that Northern Rock may not exactly play ball with any reduced offers towards the unsecured element of the together mortgage and may consider going for a County Court Judgement with a view to a Charging Order (or maybe they will check out the revised OFT guidelines on debt collection and follow them or something)

 

Easy for me to say but please do not feel ashamed as there are millions of people in this position with the number set to increase, and as I have said before on many occasions you should be applauded for the way you are trying to deal with your debts and to be honest, in my opinion, you deserve better service than you appear to getting at the moment.

 

At the end of the day it has to be your decision and if you are not sure or have any doubts on anything there is nothing to stop you getting a second opinion etc

 

Keep posting if you can and let us know how you go on as I am quite sure there are people on here who can guide and support you further

 

If anyone else wishes to comment on what I have put, please feel free.

 

Best Wishes & take care

 

As always, an independent Wintry

Edited February 18, 2012 by Wintry

[Wintry]

70 % of my expenditure figures were reduced by her as she said they were to high

 

 

Outgoing:

 

Mortgage: 480 pm

water: 44 pm

council tax: 145 pm (this has arrears but the cccs advisor wanted to put 115, which is what it is without arrears)

gas 75pm

Electricity: 56 pm

 

Building/contents insurance: £18 pm

Telephone/internet: 40pm

TV Licence: £12 pm

Satellite: 23 pm

CCJ: 10 pm

Life insurance: £20 pm (I was totally grilled about what this was for)

 

Spares and car servicing: 11 pm (my car is 12 years old)

Road tax: 18 pm

car insurance 33 pm

Breakdown: 10 pm

Fuel/parking: 130 pm (this is now the same as last year even though the price of fuel has gone up)

 

Food/cleaning products 380 pm (has had to stay the same as last year even though food has increased)

School meals: 30 every four weeks

pets: 23pm (I have three cats who I have had before taken on dmp and I now cannot afford insurance)

 

School trips: 6 pm

Medicine: 10 pm (my child and partner have allergies but this isn't enough to cover all plus painkillers)

dentist: 10 pm (I was asked if I really needed to wear glasses, I wear them EVERY day!!)

hairdressing: 28 pm (this is much less then I can pay in this area)

Clothing footwear: 45 pm

sports hobbies: 20 pm (just covers childs swimming lessons)

pocket money for child: 11 pm

 

Sundries 30 pm

loan from family: 30 pm (this is on my mams credit card as the car broke down, followed by my washer, fridge freezer and oven. I owe £800)

 

Hi again laalinz

 

I have answered your other post, but on reading this one I have a suggestion.

 

Have a look at the new online CAB Debt Management system - this actually gives you guidence on expenditure allowance figures

 

http://mymoney.nedcab.org.uk/moneyadvice/

 

I am not saying change to a DIY plan or anything like that, just suggesting you compare some of the allowance figures to what CCCS are suggesting.

 

A number of the CAB guideline figures do look a lot more generous to me, now why is that I wonder, maybe we should ask CCCS (or anybody else for that matter) the same question?

 

Best wishes

Edited February 18, 2012 by Wintry

[sequenci]

How many children do you have?

[Wintry]

Hi Sequenci

 

Looking at the income figures on the other related thread - child benefit £88 every 4 weeks would suggest one child

[sequenci]

Hi Sequenci

 

Looking at the income figures on the other related thread - child benefit £88 every 4 weeks would suggest one child

 

Thank you.

 

I know that the guideline figures for a DMP via both Payplan and CCCS expect housekeeping and motoring costs to be significantly lower than those allowed under the CFS. If a DMP is going to be a struggle financially then self-negotiating using a system such as the CAB one could allow a more reasonable quality of life.

[Wintry]

Hi sequenci

 

You are welcome

 

I know I dont have to ask you the obvious questions here and nobody should be struggling in a Debt Management Plan whoever they go with or if they administer one themselves.

 

People with famalies, working, needing a car for work etc with all the fuel and other associated costs, coping with unexpected large bills, do not need the extra stress and worry of still being in trouble with their debts even while they are supposed to be being helped and lets not forget the providers you mention receive percentage payments, contributions or donations (whatever that means) via the creditors for administering Debt Management Plans.

 

Inflation, changes in benefits & tax credits that are in the pipeline (believe me these are going to hurt) will only pile on the pressure so any unsustainable payments plans are only going to become even harder to maintain.

 

My opinion is questions are going to asked at an increasing rate as to whether certain allowances are sustainable and if I am honest, also on just how independent of creditors some organisations really are.

 

There will have to be a rethink soon if you ask me.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Wintry

[laalinz]

Hi, thanks for your feedback and your answer on my other post.

 

I did spend along time on my figures for my review and checked them against the allowances on CCCS website (I went through it like a new claim on the website) and the maximum allowances were higher on there, then then advisor was said I was allowed.

 

It was just a horrible conversation.

 

I tried to handle my own DMP before going to CCCS and I found it to stressful at the time, I am very grateful for CCCS taking this stress away when I first set up the DMP plan with them. I don't want it to appear like I am saying they are a bad company, as they are far from it.

 

Sometimes though, the advisor's could show a little more compassion to the people who are struggling in debt. We are stressed enough without a trip to a headmasters office.

 

It felt like she was trying to get as much as possible for my creditors instead of making sure I had enough for my little family (one child of 7 years of age) to live on. this particular advisor definitely seemed to be working for the creditors in my case.

[laalinz]

Thank you.

 

Words of encouragement are very helpful.

 

I have looked into redundancy options and what will happen and I hopefully will be able to claim contribution based JSA for 6 months. Hoping to be able to go to college and retrain as I have been made redundant 4 times in 5 years. Which is part of the reason why we are in this mess to start with.

 

I'm going to see how I go on the plan for the next two months and if I am struggling (which I think I will I will seek another opinion). If i am redundant by the end of March, it will need looking at again anyway.

 

Another thing is that I told the advisor I could really do with make some allowance in the plan for my partner to pass his driving licence as this will lead to a promotion for him resulting in more take home pay. She said we would review that at our next review in four months time.

 

xx

[sequenci]

I did spend along time on my figures for my review and checked them against the allowances on CCCS website (I went through it like a new claim on the website) and the maximum allowances were higher on there, then then advisor was said I was allowed.

 

Glad to hear there is some movement. By the way, it is possible to have a higher figure than £130 for travelling but I believe you have to provide them with your milage.

It was just a horrible conversation.

And it shouldn't have been. I know they have some very good people working there, I know a fair amount of them!

Sometimes though, the advisor's could show a little more compassion to the people who are struggling in debt. We are stressed enough without a trip to a headmasters office.

100% agree. If you get anyone like that again do consider complaining. Any debt counsellor/money adviser worth their salt would always been compationate and understanding.

It felt like she was trying to get as much as possible for my creditors instead of making sure I had enough for my little family (one child of 7 years of age) to live on. this particular advisor definitely seemed to be working for the creditors in my case.

 

They do have tight rules BUT there should aways be room for deviation if need be.

 

Oh, and do drop Peer a line. He's a true gent.

 

Keep us posted

[laalinz]

I do love you guys on here!!!

 

I will keep you posted. I am going to call into CAB over the next few weeks to discuss my options after redundancy (which is looking very likely) think it may be worth discussing my DMP with them as wel and letting them look at my figures.

 

Thank you

l

[Wintry]

Hi laalinz

 

You are very welcome

 

Take what helps from mine and other peoples posts as that is the name of the game really.

 

I agree with and understand what you say about an organisation taking the stress and worry by administering a Debt Management Plan for you as this can have obvious benefits and if it works for you then nobody should argue with that.

 

However any arrangement has to be realistic and sustainable or it will not work and probably cause unecessary stress and worry on those involved that can at times lead to serious implications which will still eventually need addressing somwhere down the line.

 

Talking generally, my opinion is, that the way things are going with debt solutions and so called allowances, there is a bigger picture developing here, its just that some organisations may not have quite recognised this yet (or maybe they dont want to) but these will not go away and sooner or later there will be a tipping point as simple economics will determine that.

 

The sands may well be shifting.

 

Like I said earlier, at the end of the day it has to be your decisions on what is best for you and your family, just make sure that you fully understand all your options.

 

Keep us updated if you wish and can.

 

All the best

[Wintry]

Hi sequenci

 

Peer could always join in with us on the thread / debate on here if he wishes:)

[sequenci]

The more the merrier. I always enjoy reading debates about money advice. I won't lie, the banter between you and Nick is great!

 

Oh. and in my humble view both CCCS and Payplan need to increase their allowable expenses for housekeeping and travel for their DMPs!

[Wintry]

Hi Sequenci

 

Yes, I am quite sure you now know the score as to what is going on and that there is much more to come (its those renegade pantomime villians at work again:)

 

It is an interesting situation with the allowances though, with more people set to struggle with DMPs (and IVAs for that matter) in my opinion, not good and hard to see how the two you mention (and others) are going to handle this to be honest - possible big implications here you know - think aboiut it (I m sure you have)

 

PS - I think Nick may still be reading through the IVA protocol - I wonder if he has got to the relevant paragraphs yet, oop, oop!

[laalinz]

Just being doing some reading and research and it would appear that my food and household is way under what CAB would recommend.

 

Maybe that is why I struggle on my food allowance. I shop online so I can budget what I am spending, make my own food as hate feeding my family rubbish and its cheaper to give them a home made meal. Yet the last ten days of the month I cannot do a shop and its a struggled to give my family a healthy meal then.

 

A DMP teaches you that it is do-able living on a budget.

[Wintry]

Hi laalinz

 

Just for my information.

 

Peer. I am dropping you a line via this superb very open public forum that you post on.

 

I for one would be very interested in what you have got to say about the CAB guideline figures in comparison to the CCCS ones?

 

Over to you Peer?