DCA and old mortgage debt

[give_me_it_back]

I have heard back from the DCA. Still nothing from the Halifax yet. The letter from the DCA encloses a letter (on Halifax headed notepaper, but not signed by anything recognisable. Under the 'squiggle' it says 'Mortgage recoveries'.) This letter - apparently from the Halifax says:

 

Following the sale of the above property in posession, a loss of £29,641.06 was incurred, of which £28,770.06 remains outstanding. As agents actibg for Halifax, CIS are therefore authorised to act on our behlaf regarding this matter.

 

Also enclosed is a completion statement:

 

Date of advance, and date of sale.

total Advance £58,550

Interest from 12.2.88 - 22.10.92 (this amounts to £27,249.75) (!)

It lists the following costs:

Estate Agents/Auction £1324

Valuation fees £65

Ground rent/service charge £2246

Property Maintenance (?) £111

'Other costs of realisation' (?) £871

 

Property sale proceeds £33,500

Surrender Value proceeds £1,771

AMS Proceeds received (?) £8872

Payments received £16,675

 

Final loss £29,641

 

Is this enough information to enable the DCA to collect?

 

I have still not received the SARN fromHalifax.

 

They haven't said whether a claim was made against indemnity insurance.

 

They haven't said how interest was calculated.

 

Most of the money HAS been realised. What is outstanding is the INTEREST at a whopping £27,249

 

Am I liable for this or is this not paid back via the insurers?

 

Where do I go from here...?

 

Thanks VERY much

[give_me_it_back]

...bump...

[alanfromderby]

Clearly a great deal more information is needed. However, I would certainly dispute the interest prior to November 2000, as some would argue that the interest is statute barred after 6 years - although I am not totally convinced.

 

There is also a difficulty in assuming that the amount outstanding is definitely interest. I would suggest that this depends on the terms of the mortgage agreement, and it may be that the interest is dealt with first - again, I am surmising.

 

With a total advance of £58k, and a sale price of £33.5k, one would have to question whether the property was undersold. Certainly with only £111 spent on maintenance, I cannot see how they can have made any effort to secure the best price.

 

As far as indemnity insurance is concerned, if they have received a payment then that would only cover the capital. If they have, then this will answer the first point, however you may end up with a claim from the insurance company as well.

 

Of course, even when you can answer these questions, there are still questions about unlawful charges etc.

[give_me_it_back]

Thanks Alan. I suppose I really need to also see what comes fromthe Halifax. If they really have 'lost my file', what happens then?

 

What charges would be deemed to be unlawful?

 

It certainly seems the property was very undersold, and it was in immaculate condition when I left it.

 

What response would you think is appropriate for me to make to the DCA now? I suppose I need to see a breakdown of the interest.

 

thanks very much. I feel very out of my depth here...

[give_me_it_back]

The interest is from 88 to 92, and comes to the huge sum of £27,249. If I can clarify that this is statute barred, would that mean I am not liable for that amount?

[alanfromderby]

There is some very good information about mortgage shortfalls on the National Debtline site which you might find useful:

 

National Debtline, for FREE CONFIDENTIAL and INDEPENDENT ADVICE call 0808 808 4000

[give_me_it_back]

Great Alan. Thanks for that.

[give_me_it_back]

I just spoke with the National Debtline and they were very helpful. They told me that I need to wait and see what comes from the Halifax. They apparently don't need to send me the original signed paperwork, but they do need to show proof of repossession in my name and the shortfall. If they do not send this, I am within my rights to tell the DCA to take a run.

 

The Halifax only have until 9th December to respond to me... AND they STILL haven't cashed my cheque... I wrote it on 2nd October....

[give_me_it_back]

I have just received a copy of the mortgage deed from the DCA (I think it was recovered from the Land Registry).

 

I have STILL not heard from the Halifax, and today is the deadline to comply with the 40 day rule. What should I do now..? I do need them to provide the information. Should I now report them to IC?

 

The DCA have said that they will contact me in the New Year and they will require a financial statement from me.

 

Am I at liberty to supply them with this? (I have previously)

 

Do they have enough information to legally collect from me?

 

Thanks everyone.

[alanfromderby]

I would stick with the advice from the NDL and refuse to do anything until you receive all the information from the Halifax. If the start to hassle then write to them stating that Halifax are now in breach of your DSAR, and that until you have all the evidence you require the matter is "in dispute", and further attempts to seek collection will be met with a complaint to Trading Standards.

[give_me_it_back]

Thanks very much Alan.

[give_me_it_back]

I have eventually heard back from the Halifax (1 month late!)

 

Following my SAR, they have not sent me a completion statement, but they have sent:

 

A computer produced report showing mortgage application details (no signatures).

 

A copy of the information held by the Property Unit (again, no signatures)

 

A copy of the information held by the DCA (I have had this all before).

 

They say that the account was not sold on to anyone, and letters were sent to the original address.

 

Is this now enough information to enable the DCA to collect?

 

I offered the DCA an amount, and they refused. However, in light of what I now understand, am I correct in thinking that I am NOT at liberty to complete their 'outgoings' forms, and that they will have to accept the amount I say I am able to pay?

 

Happy b****y New Year!!

 

Thanks all!

[give_me_it_back]

bump...

[give_me_it_back]

anyone..? please?

[give_me_it_back]

Have heard back from the Halifax following my letter to them to tell them they did not supply me with all the information I requested. They tell me the following:

 

"as the account has been closed for more than 6 years, we do not hold statements on our system and this is the reason we did not include them with your SAR>

 

With regard to manual intervention, I regret that HBOS is under no statutory obligation to record this information, and I am therefore unable to assist with this request.

 

With regards to your other queries, these have been passed to the mortgage recoveries team who will respond under separate cover."

 

Can you please clarify that, until I receive the following, I am perfectly correct to claim this account is still in dispute, and , until such time I receive the information, the DCA cannot collect any money?

 

 

You have still not provided me with the information I requested.

 

I specifically asked for:

 

• I asked to receive all statements, including the completion statement, and a complete list of charges that were applied to this account.

 

• Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you. If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

• In the letter, you confirm that the account was not sold. You also say that all letters were sent to my forwarding address. The address you have on file is correct, yet I did not receive any correspondence from you. Please send me a copy of these letters.

 

• I was never issued with a default notice. Please provide this.

 

• I was also never informed of the sale. Please provide this also.

 

• It is also my legal right to see proof of the repossession (in my name) and also the shortfall.

 

Until I receive this information, I have been advised that this account is in dispute.

Thanks everyone.

[give_me_it_back]

Can I please have some feedback on the above... It is really causing me stress, and I really WOULD appreciate some dialogue... Thanks

 

The questions are:

 

Is Halifax correct in saying they do not have to provide me with statements as the account has been closed for more than 6 years?

 

Are they under no statotory obligation to provide information on manual intervention? Do they not have to confirm if it DIDN'T take place?

 

Am I right in believing the following:

 

I am entitled to a completion statement.

 

I am entitled to copies of all the letters they SAY they sent to me?

 

I am entitled to see the default notice - as I was NOT issued with one.

 

I was never informed of the sale of my house - I am surely entitled to see proof of this also.

 

I am also entitled to see proof of repossession in my name and the shortfall.

 

Until I receive all this information, I should not make payments?

[PriorityOne]

You may want to take this across to the "General Debt" forum. There are a few folk on there with mortgage issues and you would probably get a faster response to your questions there... although evenings are busier on there.

 

Good luck...

[give_me_it_back]

Thanks very much, PriorityOne - I'll give it a go.

[give_me_it_back]

Ok... NOW, I have heard back from the DCA and they say that they have not received any of my letters! I will send copies (recorded).

 

However, they threaten me that they will now refer this back to Halifax and recommend litigation.

 

What do I do now!!!???

 

I am about to give birth and this is causing HUGE stress!!!

[twaddle]

Your thread sounds exactly like mine. Please read 'DCA turning nasty'. Any advice greatly appreciated.

[give_me_it_back]

What is the link to your case please?

[give_me_it_back]

OK.. now I have received a letter from 'Irwin Mitchell' who say that Halifax are now THEIR clients! Does this mean that CIS have sold it on again!?

 

They say this is my final opportunity to settle prior to court and I must pay within 7 days.

 

I have sent the same letter to them that I sent to the last lot - show me the legals to which I am entitled to.

 

Is this the right thing to do?

 

Should I do anything else?

 

What can I expect next?

 

Has anyone had any dealings with Irwin Mitchell?

[patrickq1]

it just means halifax have sent it to another collector you are getting the run around now you have asked for all data subject to sar request this looks like they are in breach of those conditions yes if you have posted by recorded delivery your sars and also paid 10 pounds and they have accepted and cashed then they are now in breach depending upon the time this has been going on,so your next course of action will be an LBA if you go to begginners guide to dummies start through their and identify what stage you think you are at ok mate good luck

patrickq1

[PriorityOne]

Sounds like Halifax passed it to CIS.... who passed it back to Halifax.... who have now passed it to solicitors. This suggests that the DCA are off your case now, at least.... leaving you to deal with Halifax and their solicitors directly.

 

Seeing as Halifax have said that they have destroyed all pre-6 year records, then on what grounds have they instructed Irwin Mitchell to come after you ? A SAR request is for all transactional data.... so if they are saying that it's been destroyed, then you have a right to know when/how it was disposed of. If they have no data however..... then what have Irwin Mitchell got ?

 

They can't have it both ways....

[give_me_it_back]

Very good point Priority One....

 

Irwin Mitchell said that they passed my letter to Halifax and that they will send me a full letter in due course...

 

I'm waiting with baited breath...