Connaught Collections - 1st Credit. Statutory Demand received - advice please.

[Rupert Rigsby]

Hello - I'm hoping someone can direct me with the situation I find myself in.

 

A few days ago I received a Statutory Demand from Connaught Collections on behalf of 1st Credit after opening the door to someone who said they had "a parcel" for me. When they asked my name I confirmed it, and then he proceeded to give me the demand, not a parcel, and not in an envelope either, just the sheets of paper. He claimed he did not know what it was and he was just delivering - but as he has it on a clipboard in front of him and there was no envelope around it, this was a blatent lie. He also glanced towards his car - with hindsight, he could have been filming this "delivery". I don't know. Anyway, I fell for it.

 

For the last few years they have been chasing me for a debt on a Halifax credit card that was assigned to them at the end of 2008. At the time I had been paying back Halifax from an agreement I thought I had with them. However, without prior warning they suddenly decided that I wasn't paying enough (I presume) and they assigned/sold/whatever the debt to 1st Credit.

 

At that point I put in a CCA request asking for a copy of the agreement. What they eventually sent back was a photocopy of an application form from the year 2000 for a credit card with Bank One. It seems at some point this "Bank One" card and account became a "Halifax Card" - however, I do not remember how or when. What I do know though, is that 1st Credit only had the Bank One Application Form - which did have an extract of a few terms on the back regarding interet rates, etc. - however, I never recieved a copy of a full agreement or terms and conditions - as far as I can recall. Similarly, since it became a Halifax account I have never had a copy of the agreement or terms and conditions as far as I know - I certainly haven't got them here at home and would not have thrown them away. I can't remember ever having a Default Notice either, but my credit file shows a default at the time the Halifax assigned the account to 1st Credit in 2008. Around this time I was also having a few problems (redundancy, family illness, bereavements, so can't be 100% on all facts).

 

I did not think the Bank One Application Form represented a proper agreement for a Halifax credit card, so I decided that until they produced one, I would just ignore them. Over the next 3 years a stream of "threatograms" and "discount" offers if I paid "now" from 1st Credit, DHS, Judge & Priestly, LCS, Connault Collections, Uncle Tom Cobbly and all..... but I thought until they send me a copy of the Halifax Agreement they cannot do anything.......... but now of course, they have.

 

I will copy and attach the Statutory Demand below, as I don't understand what they are playing at. For example:

A. They claim the monies were due under "a financial agreement" and that I have "failed to adhere to the terms and conditions of the repayment agreement", but they do not mention an account number or any specific dates at this point.

B. They state the debt is for non-payment of a "Halifax Bank agreement" and that the debt was assigned under an agreement to 1st credit. Again, no account number or anything to identify it.

C. The amount due is given - which is the same as they have been claiming.

 

Would it be normal for this sort of "Particulars of Debt" to not give any details of the account number or any other identification other than it was a "Halifax Bank Agreement"? If I was not aware of what they were talking about, how could I find out to defend myself? It does not identify itself at all. Is this just a tactic to try and scare me into paying? If so, what can I do about it? If not, what should I do about it?

 

According to the forms, I have to apply to have this set aside within 18 days (I need to look all that up) but it also says I should contact the individual (at Connault Collections) to tell them I am disputing the demand - or paying it, or whatever.

 

What should my plan of action be?

 

Any help or guidance gratefully recieved. I'm sure there are similar posts on here and I will start researching now, but I could do with some help regarding what I should do and when, to get them off my back if possible.

 

Many thanks, "Rupert".

Edited January 17, 2012 by Rupert Rigsby

[Rupert Rigsby]

My scanned images of the Statutory Demand seemed to have shrunk since leaving my PC. How do I retain the size, anyone know? - Rupert

 

Update: Have changed them to .PDF files. That seems to work for now.

stat-demand1.pdf

stat-demand2.pdf

stat-demand3.pdf

stat-demand4.pdf

Edited January 17, 2012 by Rupert Rigsby

[MARTIN3030]

Will flag this up for site team.

[42man]

You will notice a few other threads on here for Halifax and First Credit/Connaught....were you in a payment plan at the time it was passed to First Credit ? Have you sent a SAR to the original creditor...

[Rupert Rigsby]

I was getting letters from Blair, Oliver and Scott before it was passed to 1st Credit. I was paying £60pm but the letters wanted to "review" the arrangement (in other words, pressure me to pay more). They wanted me to phone them so I basically ignored these letters.... but I kept paying £60 per month anyway right up to the transfer to 1st Credit. It was only then I stopped paying and asked questions about the agreement - and found out there did not appear to be one - at least not with "Halifax" on it, only "Bank One" - and then only an application form as described above.

 

This morning I have sent a SAR to Halifax relating to the credit card account number I had for them, as suggested.

 

I'm also sending a CCA request to Connault for this "Halifax Bank Account" (with no account number) as specified in the Satutory Demand, using just their reference number. (a previous CCA request to 1st Credit only resulted in the same Bank One application form being sent back.)

 

Both are in the post this morning, recorded delivery.

 

I really appreciate the help greatly (my daughter is in hospital today, so my mind is all over the place at the moment).

 

What should I do next, if anything, regarding the Statutory Demand?

[42man]

Interesting that you were paying until it was assigned as this was an interesting case recently with regard to 1st Credit / Connaught - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?318698-Connaught-Collections-Statutory-Demand-Received-**SET-ASIDE-GRANTED**/page4

[Rupert Rigsby]

Yes, but I am not sure there was a "repayment arrangement" as such on the amount I was paying - I just paid what I could and their computer chugs out the letters when they want an increase - I do not remember ever making an agreement - I just paid what I could each month. I might point out that at the time I had lots of debts all over the place and a lot of paperwork has gone missing (because I was "all over the place" as well!). Until I get the result of the SAR back I don't suppose I'll be able to piece it all together properly (assuming they send me everything they should) but they have 40 days and the SD needs action before that.

 

I'm reading up as much as I can on here at every spare minute I have, but I am finding the Statutory Demand stuff all very confusing at the moment and am not sure what I have (or don't have) to do within the so-called 18 days. Even though I know which account it is on about, it does not specify an account number on the SD. Is that a defence - as I could claim I don't know which account they are referring to?

[42man]

OK....you need to apply to set aside the demand within 18 days of the date you received it, you will need forms 6.4 (set aside form) and 6.5 (witness statement) And not having the account number I think will make a difference. Do you have any statements for the duration of the agreement ? no default notice ? any PPI ? If you have the statements have you checked the interest rate ?

[Rupert Rigsby]

I have no statements, no default notice, there was no PPI on it. I have lots of letters and "threatograms" and I can post brief dates and details if that will help. I also have photocopies of the original Bank One application form which I can post (quality is not good though). A default "date" is on my credit file - it co-incides with when 1st credit took it over, but again I do not recall ever recieving one.

 

I've done a bit of research - I applied for the Bank One credit card in Jan 2000 - they were taken over/bought out/whatever by Halifax in June 2000. Obviously, when the Bank One card expired (I guess 2 or 3 years later) I would have been issued with a Halifax One - completely different number, etc., but I have not got an agreement at all for the Halifax card and have no recollection of one. Is that as important as I hope it is?

 

I've attached a copy of the Application Form/"Agreement" below:

BankOneAppBack.pdf

BankOneAppFront.pdf

Edited January 17, 2012 by Rupert Rigsby
Add images of Application Form/Credit Agreement

[42man]

In which case then if it was me in your situation I certainly wouldn't be arguing that the agreement is an application as Rankine vs Amex scotched that, I would be stating that you have no statements for the duration of the agreement (you can check the interest rates as in Kotecha vs Phoenix case) Default notice, termination notice, deed of assignment and notice of assignment.......and unless there is an abuse of process then I really think you may not have a strong enough case. Have you had a chat with a solicitor ?

[42man]

It might also be worth trying to find a no win no fee solicitors who specialise in statutory demands.....

[Rupert Rigsby]

No - not spoken to a solicitor - don't know where to start. Very busy at the moment as well - short of time, I need to earn! (late back tonight, caught in horrendous traffic)

 

What I find it hard to understand is how something that is supposed to be "unsecured" can suddenly be used to try and bankrupt someone. It was a credit card, not a mortgage or a secured loan. I was paying back what I could before Halifax sold it to 1st Credit (for a pittance, no doubt, and then claimed tax relief).

 

If the fact that the SD does not even have an account number on it is not enough on its own, then how "woolly" can it be?

Is it worth sending a CPR31.14 request to Connaught to see what I get, or is that not appropriate with an SD?

 

From your list of things there is not much I can argue if the Application/Agreement for Bank One would be accepted for a Halifax Card Agreement by the court. Seems a bit bizarre to say the least and is very depressing. I would imagine the terms between the companies would be quite different, wouldn't they? They mess you about, don't follow the rules properly, don't produce the right paperwork, contracts, etc., then harrass & threaten you, and generally make life hell - and that's ok? Sorry, but I feel a bit down now. I didn't need to come home to that after a long day.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Rupert Rigsby

[42man]

Bearing in mind they can reproduce agreements too, but they have to be correct, (woe betide them if they are wrong) if you google some of the cases I mentioned above, then you will understand a bit more, I think your angle on the agreement change from bank one to Halifax might be worth following ....and I have previously suggested using CPR31.14 for stat demands/bankruptcy, but the response from judges varies wildly, some will allow the use of civil procedure rules, (and indeed I have seen a couple of cases where a stat dmeand has been thrown out due to non production of various pieces of requested paperwork). However the civil procedure rules are for the civil courts and not for bankruptices.....

[Rupert Rigsby]

I really appreciate your comments and time "42man" - thanks. Please ignore any "ramblings" - they are not aimed at you or anyone else - it is just so frustrating sometimes and to write down and vent some feelings seems to help at times, even though from a practical viewpoint they are no use at all.

 

I don't really understand the SD forms - I don't know how to argue the case without getting emotional, unfortunately, it is a weakness of mine! I would not be a good lawyer!!

 

What happens if I put in a request to have it "set aside" and the judge decides "no". What options do I have at that point? When is the point of "no return" regarding bankruptcy? Should I offer something to 1st credit (no matter how much it sticks in my throat)? Or should I fight it? Is the fact that they have not gone down the CCJ route first an argument? So many questions.

 

I had previously been in a good job for over 20 years - until redundancy (due to company relocation) came along. All I've done is worked my nuts off to try and survive since, and yet I've been kicked in the teeth at every opportunity by these greed-driven parasites that seem to glory in the downfall of others.

 

I think I will have to try and find a local solicitor to have a chat with to see what they say.

[42man]

Try googling no win no fee statutory demands, there seem to be quite a few companies who do this service...

[Rupert Rigsby]

I will try to get hold of a solicitor this afternoon. In the meantime I had a stab at a response for the SD (copy and pasting a couple of bits from elsewhere on here). Feel free to tell me it's rubbish!

 

(1) Do not admit the debt because the debt is in dispute.

The creditor has defaulted under section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 for failing to provide a copy of the alleged Halifax Bank Agreement on request within the prescribed period. The prescribed period as stated in SI 1983/1569 Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 is 12 working days. Under the provisions of s78 (6), the creditor is not entitled to enforce the alleged agreement while this default continues.

My request under s78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 was sent to 1STCredit Ltd, the debt collection agency who claim to be dealing with the alleged agreement and have raised the statutory demand via their agents Connaught Collections. This request was received and signed for on the xth xxxx 20xx. At this present date (19th January 2012), 1st Credit Ltd have had almost 3 years to comply with the request made for a copy of the alleged Halifax Bank Agreement, and are therefore in default as stated above.

Additionally, whilst in default, 1st Credit Ltd have continued repeated requests for payment either themselves or via their agents, LCS Solicitors, Connaught Collections, Judge & Priestley and DHS at least 13 letters I have on file.

Previously, on xxth xx 2008, Halifax had received a request under s78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and had also failed to provide a copy of the alleged Halifax Agreement on request within the prescribed period. Again, a series of letters asking for payment followed.

Further, on xxth xx 2008, Halifax assigned the alleged debt to 1st Credit Ltd even though they were in default of my request under s78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 from xxth xx 2008.

On both occasions the only “paperwork” sent by either Halifax or 1st Credit Ltd, is a photocopy of an Application Form for a credit card issued by Bank One NA, dated xxth xx 2000, which was not what had been requested. Neither the word “Halifax” or the account number in question appears anywhere on this document and neither Halifax or 1st Credit have ever offered any other documentation or terms and conditions to show any connection whatsoever between the Bank One NA Application form and the alleged debt for a Halifax Bank Account.

On xxth xx 2012, a “Data Protection Act 1998 subject access request” was sent to Halifax Card Services asking for any and all data held by them in any manner in any form and in any period of time, to be supplied, in order that the data regarding the Halifax Bank Agreement can be proven one way or the other. This request was received on xxth xx 2012. They have 40 days in which to comply.

Also, on xxth xx 2012, a further request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 with regards to the alleged Halifax Bank Account was sent to Connaught Collections and received on xxth xx 2012.

[Rupert Rigsby]

Read on here that ringing the elusive "Mr D Silcock" could play to my advantage if he does not come to the phone - only he did - first time. I only asked for him by name and gave the reference number - nothing else.

 

He asked me to give my address and DOB - I just said "I'm ringing to tell you I will be applying to set-aside the demand and that's all you need to know - goodbuy!"

 

So that plan is out the window! Any suggestions anyone?

 

Have tried to contact a couple of solicitors online, without any luck. The only one I got had a starting price of £2000 and is based in London (and I am a good 70 miles away from there!) - only have week left, and not much spare time....

[Rupert Rigsby]

Not managed to get hold of a solicitor and now have to work away from home for 3 days - so on my own here.......

 

Can someone advise what I actually need to submit to get this set aside. Obviously, forms 6.4 & 6.5 and I presume attach a copy of the Statutory Demand (marked "A"). Do I, or can I, attach letters I've sent demanding copies of agreement, etc., or is that left until the court appearance? Please can someone advise? Thanks.

[42man]

Forms 6.4 (set aside) and 6.5 (witness statement) help here for form 6.4 - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?162489#post1749288

 

Witness statement will look like this.....

 

Statement: Defendant

Party:(ignore this)

 

Statement: (ignore this)

 

Exhibits:(you can use this as a referral point - but a CCA request should be an exhibit marked (x) and referred to as such in the witness statement

 

Date:

 

 

 

APPLICATION TO SET ASIDE THE STAUTORY DEMAND

 

OF MR (name)

_________________________________________________________

statement of MR (name)

_________________________________________________________

 

I, Mr (name) of ………(address)……………………………… will say as follows:-

 

I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true.

 

SIGNED ………………………………………..

 

MR (name)

 

 

Dated ………………………………………..

[jiggyonthebus]

It would be advisable to submit evidence of your requests (copies) and evidence that they have been received to the court prior to the hearing with your witness statement. Note in the covering letter that you will be bringing the originals to the hearing (with your own copy of the witness statement for reference) and that they will be available upon request of the judge.

 

Your points in the "response for the SD" seem reasonable and my only advice would be to make your witness statement concise and to the point.

 

Make a point...refer to the evidence.

 

The judge may see many letters and lengthy documentation from individuals. He may make more sense and a more reasonable decision of a concise document with evidence to refer to as he wishes.

 

Last point should be your conclusion...

 

example "I respectfully ask the court, that in light of the aforementioned witness statement and supporting documentation, the credit agreement is deemed unenforceable and the statutory demand be set aside"

 

please note - i am not a legal representative

[42man]

Excellent post....ty Jiggy

[Rupert Rigsby]

I would like to send Connault/1st Credit a CPR 31.14 - I've seen it suggested, even though it is a Statutory Demand I'm dealing with. But, I can't find the post now that showed me how to word it - I'm sure it is on here somewhere!! So many posts..... so little time... can anyone point me in the right direction or give me some words, as obviously the template is designed for civil court claims.

 

The "particulars of debt" mention the "financial agreement", "repayment terms", "terms and conditions of the repayment arrangements", and the debt having been "assigned" - and I don't have any of those currently except maybe a letter telling me about the assignment. Sounds like waffle, but as it is on the form, shouldn't I have a right to see all these documents regardless? So how can I word the CPR31.14 to my advantage?

 

I have done what I can regarding the set-aside form, witness statement and associated copies of letters, etc., and will take them to the court Monday (day 17) - thanks so far for all your help.

[42man]

They will claim the CPR31.14 can't be used as it this is used in the civil rules and not insolvency rules, however I have seen on here set asides due to non production of paperwork and you could ask the judge for an 'unless' order. - at the end of the day, at least you have shown to the judge that you have made more than a reasonable effort to get information.

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received a statutory demand

 

I confirm it is my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

[i have delivered a request for the production of the agreement mentioned in the particulars of the claim/debt which you rely. That request was ignored][delete if no such request was delivered]

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1 the agreement/contract. where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 the deed of assignment*

 

3 the notice of assignment*

 

4 statements for the duration of the agreement*

 

5 [any other documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim]*

 

* delete if not mentioned in the Particulars of claim.

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out for non-compliance and a summary costs order. in my favour

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

yours faithfully

[Rupert Rigsby]

Brilliant - Thankyou 42Man. Will get CPR31.14 in the post today. Presume I send it to 1st Credit rather than Connault?

 

Is it worth also sending a SAR request to 1st Credit? I know it costs £10, but could it show communications about my account between them and the original lender and also their other "agents", Connault, etc? Or am I being too optimistic here? (Halifax had a SAR sent a week or so ago - not acknowledged yet, but I have proof of delivery). They can't deny me that information. can they?

[42man]

I would send it to whoever is taking you to court....I think it is usually Connaught, I guarantee that they will write back saying Civil rules don't apply, but the least you can do is state that you have tried to obtain disclosure to a complete dispute, and if nothing else you may get the assistance of the judge in an 'unless' order...(but judges can vary wildly). When I say unless I mean that you request full disclosure of the default notice, accounts for the full duration, agreement, termination notice, default notice, deed of assignment (to check that it hasn't been shipped offshore where they MAY not have jurisdiction) and a notice of assignment. If for any reason they start stating that they do not inherit the rights and duties then there were some posts on here about the Law Of Property Act 1925...(have a dig around, as I can't find them) If they try this then you may be able to insist on quizzing/disclosure from the original creditor....(which by sending a SAR you have tried to do)