Charging order - Now trying for orders of sale - old CARCRAFT DEBT - HELP

[Hidden-man]

does this debt show on your cra file?

when was the last time you PAID anything on it?

dx

 

I've not paid anything. I advised them of dispute in 2007 and offered to pay £50 per month on condition that they halt any further action while I maintainer payments and would seek refund if carcraft settled. They rejected offer and proceeded with the stat demand.

[Hidden-man]

I've not paid anything. I made offer of £50 per month in 2007 on condition that they halt any further action while I maintained payments. Also that I would seek refund if the other party admitted fault and settled. They rejected offer and proceeded with stat demand. They didn't turn up to court so decision in my favour. They then went for ccj and decision in their favour as detailed on the other thread.

[Ganymede]

Hi,

 

There is technically no 'Defence' to an OFS that you need to submit. However, you should draft a Witness Statement stating the objections you already mentioned. I.e. Joint property, children living there, negative equity etc etc.

[Hidden-man]

Do I have to do anything on receipt of court papers or just turn up on the day for the hearing ?

[Cadbury1879]

Can't add any help, not within my experience.

Terrible disgrace that an OFS is even tried in the circumstances. I can't believe that any judge would grant this. Contact your MP.

If it was me I would go the Press,this is Wrong, wrong wrong. Intimidation !!

[caro]

You might be interested in this - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?148830-Defending-an-order-for-sale

 

Have you looked at the link 42man posted for you hidden-man? National Debtline might be able to offer some concrete advice for you. http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/

[Hidden-man]

Hi Caro

I've got the number and calling them tonight.

 

Also expecting call back from CCCS so hoping somebody can advise how I proceed.

 

Main thing I don't want to do is miss something I'm supposed to do before the hearing

i.e. send in an acknowledgement or submit an oposition document.

 

Just no idea what I need to do or where to start.

 

The reasons I'm looking at opposing are so far are;

1. Single person debt, joint owned property

2. children in house - residency by way of court order (without too much detail - they had a lot of instability at their mothers, removed from her care, now live with me and wife - a further move would cause more distress)

3. I made offer even though disputed I owed and was rejected by them, against oft guidelines. Offer still stands providing they cease further action while payments being made.

4. Failed to attend stat demand hearing

5. Wife currently ill and this would cause further distress / hardshipNot sure if I'm just chucking all sorts in for thought that wouldn't affect judges decision.

[Ganymede]

They're the only arguments you have, however I would leave out 4 as its not relevant.

[Hidden-man]

I was going to add for on the basis that offer had been made prior and had they attended an agreement could have been reached. However flip side is if I had attended the charging order hearings this could have been done then.I didn't attend for a few reasons. I thought it would be like the stat demand and they wouldn't show. I had intended to apply for the ccj to be set aside but unfortunately just didn't have £75 spare. Didn't realise the full implications of the charging order, thought it would just stay they until we sold. I sent the letter to the court as detailed earlier in the thread and received response saying they only deal with court procedure and are not aware of OFT guidelines.

[eggboxy1]

Hidden-man

 

Firstly, an OFS isn't going to happen under your circumstances especially if you have children at home as they will be protected under the Law of Property Act 1925. (Have a word with Sequenci on here as he specialises in stopping these actions)

 

You can be fairly certain, too, that this move is designed more to extract a payment rather than getting your house sold.

 

As long as you attend and make some offer of payment, no DJ is going to sanction an OFS that throws your partner and child out on the street. Remember Judges have far wider discretion in OFS action than they do for Charging Orders.

[ukaviator]

Once they've been granted a final charging order, your creditor can apply for an order for sale. This is a court order which forces you to sell your property and pay your creditor back what you owe them out of the proceeds of the sale. There will need to be another court hearing, which it is very important for you to attend. It is up to the court to decide whether to make an order for sale or not. I suggest you fill in an income and expenditure form showing your income etc, get that ready for the judge. You may also be able to persuade the judge to attach conditions to the charging order which mean that your creditor can't force you to sell your property or which make it harder for them to do this.

 

If the debt is in your sole name and the property is in joint names, the creditor can apply for an order for sale to realise your interest in the property. Your creditor will have got an interest in your share of the property when the final charging order was made. The court needs to think about how making a charging order will affect all the people who live with you and whether this will cause them hardship or suffering. This may make it less likely that the creditor will get a charging order or an order for sale. That's why it's very important for the court to know about your family.

 

How much do you owe?

 

Fill in an income and expenditure form for the judge to look at, you can find a good one on the National Debtline website.

 

When is your hearing?

 

Have you asked your employer for a loan? Some companies will loan their employees money to get out of serious problems because it affects their work if they have problems at home. You could set up a repayment plan from your wages.

 

Have they been adding charges at £25 a time to the amount owing, some of these can be claimed back.

 

You need to ask the judge to freeze interest as well.

[dx100uk]

thread tidied

 

dx

[citizenB]

When is the hearing ?

[Ell-enn]

Yes, need to know when the hearing is. I can help you draft a witness statement. Do you have copies of any letters where you offered to pay £50.00 per month and they rejected it ?

 

Can you also fill in the affixed income and expenditure sheet - you will need that to go with the witness statement (assuming you are still in a position to pay £50.00 per month?)

Budget Sheet.xls

[Hidden-man]

Yes, need to know when the hearing is. I can help you draft a witness statement. Do you have copies of any letters where you offered to pay £50.00 per month and they rejected it ?

 

Can you also fill in the affixed income and expenditure sheet - you will need that to go with the witness statement (assuming you are still in a position to pay £50.00 per month?)

 

I've been in touch with Nat Debt Line and they have advised both me and wife need to send seperate letters to court and the claimant laying out opposing reasons at least 7 days before hearing. The date for hearing is 10th Jan. I have a hard copy of the email (plus it is still stored in my inbox) I sent making the offer in 2007 and their rejection letter. I've scanned the court docs but not the original email or stat demand but will get these sorted and can send through.I'm working on the letters and will get these sent at the end of this week / early next week on a next day signed for delivery. I'm still willing to set up regular payments of £50.00, however i had intended on requesting the court to impose that no further action can be taken / instigated while ever I maintain regular payments. I'll work on the budget sheet and get that completed as soon as poss.

[Ell-enn]

OK, if you need help with setting out the info in the correct style to send to the court let me know.

[Hidden-man]

Doc's attached although some are not very clear.

Just looked at the doc and pages all mixed up as well so will have to try again although you may be able to decipher some of it.

I've added the email offer I made on 2007. I received a letter advising they were rejecting my offer.

EDITED -- Improved document images.Doc 01 is the charging orders and legal docs from the claimant.Doc 02 is my proposed response and supporting evidence.Any comments greatly appreciated.

Further update. The file 22 Letter is copy of a letter recived yesterday with added solicitor costs of £1,900.They tried to call me earlier in the week so I emailed saying I wanted any correspondance in writing but would accept email due to xmas post and to avoid delays. I have received an email from the this morning stating:"I refer to your email of 16 December 2011 addressed to my colleague XXXXXXXXXX son the contents of which I note. Attached to this email is the following: 1. Agreement, Terms and Conditions, Default Notice and Statement of Account; 2. Pleadings, including, Claim Form, Judgment and Charging Order. The Judgment obtained against you is regular and our client is entitled to enforce the Charging Order in line with the Civil Procedure Rules. This action has only, reluctantly been taken as a last resort. You have not responded to the previous proceedings or correspondence or any of our recent correspondence. The Order for Sale proceedings are listed to be heard on 10 January 2011 in Wakefield County Court. We would like to work with you to find an amicable solution. We invite you to complete the attached income and expenditure questionnaire and put forward your proposals for payment. We look forward to receiving these within the next seven days.

Doc 01.pdf

Doc 2.pdf

Edited December 23, 2011 by Hidden-man

[Hidden-man]

Couple of thoughts:The "Urgent Drive by" is date May 2011 and they have failed to do anything with it until December 2011. It also states on it about sale within 90 days to achieve the price. Does this mean it is invalid ?Can I request the court to order that the payments due are for the £4k in the order and not with the additional £1900 solicitor costs which to date they have provided no evidence to support these charges ?

[Ell-enn]

the statement to court looks fine, except you don't have to put yours sincerely at the bottom. You should end the statement with

 

 

We believe the above to be true and factual

 

 

 

Signed............................................. Date..................

 

 

Signed............................................. Date..................

[Hidden-man]

I'm going to send the following in response to their email this morning, can anybody offer any further suggestions or advice ?

 

Dear Mr

 

Thank you for your email this morning.

As you are no doubt aware I made an offer to make regular monthly payments of £50.00 per calender month in 2007, which was made on the following conditions:

 

1. Should Carcraft settle the disputed balance outstanding I would seek a refund of any and all payments made

.2. You / your client would halt any further proceedings or action.Whilst you / your client made the decision to reject the offer,

this has never been withdrawn by me and has remained available.

Had this offer been accepted at the time made, you / your client would have by now received payments in the region of £2,000.00.

As I have exhausted all avenues available to me regarding the dispute with Carcraft I am willing to make the revised proposal.

 

a) I will make payments of £62.37 per calender month, as per the original agreement.

b) I will not seek or expect a refund of payments made as it is apparent Carcraft will not be settling the balance.

c) Any and all proceedings (debt recovery, legal etc) are halted immediately and no further action instigated while ever regular payments are being made.

Please note - I would require written confirmation of the above conditions should you wish to accept this proposal.

 

Yours Me

[Ell-enn]

I wouldn't go into that much detail. I would just ask that they re-consider your previous offer and confirm in writing that they will withdraw the order for sale claim - wait and see what the response it. Don't tie yourself to a higher amount and give up the right to persue Carcraft for the balance or refund of payments (well, not yet anyway!)

[Hidden-man]

I've investigated the carcraft angle previously and more recently and there is nothing I can do.

 

They followed the preocedure to check hpi and that doesn't cover the personal loan side of things.

 

Redrafted.......Dear Mr

Thank you for your email this morning

.As you are no doubt aware I made an offer to make regular monthly payments of £50.00 per calender month in 2007, which was made on the following conditions:

 

1. Should Carcraft settle the disputed balance outstanding I would seek a refund of any and all payments made.

2. You / your client would halt any further proceedings or action.Whilst you / your client made the decision to reject the offer, this has never been withdrawn by me and has remained available.

Had this offer been accepted at the time made, you / your client would have by now received payments in the region of £2,000.00. I am willing to make the revised proposal.

 

a) I will make payments of £50.00 per calender month, as originally offered and until the balance outstanding of £4k has been settled.

 

b) Any and all proceedings (debt recovery, legal etc) are halted immediately and no further action instigated while ever regular payments are being made.

Please note - I would require written confirmation of the above conditions should you wish to accept this proposal.

Yours Me

 

I also can't seem to get my formating layout to stay when I post,

it keeps compressing all the text together which is a bit hard on the eye.

Do you know how I fix this ?

[dx100uk]

copy and paste from notepad not word

 

dx

[eggboxy1]

Advice given by SEQUENCI (part of the Site Team on here) on another thread;

 

"There are plenty of arguments that can stop an order for sale, anyone with a family home and children have significant protection afforded to them under the Trusts of Land and Appointment of Trustees Act - it has to be a jointly owned home, however"

 

As I stated, previously, it's in your interest to drop him a line and get his advice on the situation you are facing.

 

Also see Sequenci's information given here in post #6

Edited December 24, 2011 by eggboxy1

[Hidden-man]

sent Sequenci a pm. Thanks for the heads up eggboxy1.