Shop / Commercial rental question

[sytra]

Hi, i hope someone can help

 

We have lived at the same property for 7 years always on a 12 month rental, this year the rental agreement was sent out as usuall for us to sign, we duly signed it and returned to the agency, however they have now said that it was never received and have put us onto a periodic 1 month agreement.

 

The problem we have is that now we don't have as much security for the family and the landlord is free to increase the rent at any time he sees fit.

 

As we have always been on a 12 month rental, this years agreement was sent back (but apparently not received, we have a photocopy here) can they just change the terms without letting us know?

[citizenB]

Did you not return it via a signed / tracked method ?

[sytra]

Did you not return it via a signed / tracked method ?

Hi no it was just sent regular 1st class like normal

[mariner51]

Did you get free Cert of Posting from counter clerk?

[sytra]

No, we just sent it back the way we always have and it has always got there before

[sytra]

Hi i hope someone can help.

 

We currently rent our shop from a private landlord, we have a rental agreement but it seems very messy. We have found out that the person we rent off is trying to stitch us up with a huge electric bill, this in itself isn't the problem as we have proof that the meter readings they claim are ours are from before we moved in and E-On have actually agreed with us and can see that the landlord is trying to pull a fast one!! in finding this out we have also found out that the people we rent off don't actually own the property and didn't have permission to sub let, the property owner is happy for us to stay in the shop as we have improved it.

 

My question is, we actually want to leave the shop and have given notice to the people we thought owned it, but as they didn't have permission to sub let in the first place will the rental agreement we have with them stand up if we just up and went. I know we will lose our deposit but this is a small price to pay bearing in mind the losses we will incur between now and March 2012.

 

I look forward to your responses

 

Sytra

[Conniff]

Not my forte Sytra but take a picture of the meter reading when you leave preferably with a newspaper or something that will confirm the date.

 

Someone will be along to help as soon as they see this.

[sytra]

Hi i hope someone can help as we are really confused

 

We currently rent a shop (sub let) and have given notice to quit, the actuall landlord of the property has now got involved and has said that any new tenants have to go through him direct and not through the couple we rent the shop from (his tenants).

 

We know that this will be the last month we can afford the rent and have found someone who is willing to take the shop on for another 12 months (our lease only has 4 months left), she has been in touch with the landlord and has agreed to all his terms including paying 6 months rent upfront but he is really dragging his feet and won't give anybody an answer as to whether or not she can take the shop on, because he has taken so long and isn't communicating very well we now have to find the rent this month even though he could have had a new tenant in this week, as she is literally ready to move in!!

 

As we signed our agreement with his tenants can he get involved with our tenancy direct? Also what should be in the terms and conditions of a commercial rental as our agreement has bits missing from the bottom and the main terms are related to a residential property not a shop, so will the terms be enforceable?

 

At the minute i am seriously considering paying this months rent then a week or so before it is due again just emptying and leaving the shop as there is no way we can afford another months payment, then will just deal with any court claims from him when they arise at the end of the day as we have no other income or savings, we rent our house, so i dont think a court would ask us to pay too much.

 

I thought that if, as a tenant you were struggling and informed the LL of circumstances they had a duty to minimise the risks by actively searching for a new tenant, which we have done for him!!

 

I will be happy to scan a copy of the agreement and terms i have if it will help

 

thanks for your help

[sytra]

Just a quick question, If our landlord (we sublet) cancels their tenancy with a superior landlord, what happens to our tenancy as sub letters? as we signed with the tenant by them ending their rental does this also cancel ours as we signed the agreement with them and not the superior landlord?

[sytra]

I wonder if someone more knowledgeable than me can help.

 

We have a periodic tenancy and have been served with a S21 (4)(a) notice from the letting agency but i am not 100% sure on the dates. I think the notice has been issued in response to a letter from the council asking them to do a few repairs on the property.

 

Our agreement states that rent is due on 27th of each month and the notice says dated 7th Aug (it was posted through the door today by just one person), date of expiry After 27th Oct 2012, in theory the required 2 months would be 26th Oct wouldn't it?

 

I know it says After 27th but am i correct in thinking that it has to end on the last day of a period of tenancy ie: 27th Sep - 26th Oct?

 

so by saying the 27th have they inadvertantly given us an extra month?

 

My main question is, if the agency decided to try and take it to court after 27th Oct but before 26th Nov would we have a defense on the grounds the notice is invalid due to dates?

 

And then would they have to either issue a new S21 or would the old one still be valid as long as they use it after 26th Nov?

 

sorry for the questions, but just feel embarrassed for my family and i want to try and stay in our home as long as we can.

 

Simon

[raydetinu]

Did you pay a deposit and is it protected? if not section 21 invalid.

Also a section 21 notice is just that a notice it does not mean you have to leave on that date, just that the LL can now go to court for repossession after that date. so could take a while.

Yes it dates on the S21 are not correct then it it is not valid either.

[sytra]

Hi, thankyou for your response, yes we did pay a deposit and it is protected, we have the certificates and confirmation from the agency, this was done ages ago.

 

I forgot to mention that the agency also sent a covering letter saying:

 

"We have been instructed by the landlords of the above property to serve the enclosed Notice Requiring Possession which you will see expires on the 27th October 2012 and which is the date you are required to vacate"

 

So th eway i am reading it is saying they want us out on 27th Oct, thats why i am hoping in a way that the dates are wrong so we can challenge it.

[Steve__M]

I know it says After 27th but am i correct in thinking that it has to end on the last day of a period of tenancy ie: 27th Sep - 26th Oct?

 

so by saying the 27th have they inadvertantly given us an extra month?

 

I think the wording in the Housing Act requires that the date in the notice has to be correct.

 

...a notice [F4in writing] stating that, after a date specified in the notice, being the last day of a period of the tenancy...

 

So they have not given you valid notice at all (if you are correct about your rental periods) and you may therefore be able to ignore it. I guess there is a risk that a judge may be convinced that a) you might be wrong in your dates and b) it's only a day...I don't know how fussy they are.

 

If you are intending to stay put, you don't have to tell the agent. By the time they've realised they've fouled up they either have to chance their arm with the judge or reissue notice (which would then be not until 26th January if they don't realise till 27th October)

[mariner51]

Please confirm -

Date last AST commenced

Length of Fixed term

Frequency of rent payments (monthly?)

[sytra]

Please confirm -

Date last AST commenced

Length of Fixed term

Frequency of rent payments (monthly?)

Hi,our last tenancy was signed on 27th july 07 for 12 months, this was renewed for a further 12 months in 08, 09, 10 then in july 11 was changed to a rolling tenency (can't remember the name of it) but we have to give 1 month and LL has to give 2 months.

 

We pay rent on 27th each month

[mariner51]

I did not ask for date signed nor when you pay rent, but dates specified in AST (subtle diff).

 

So lets assume latest AST was required to commence 27 July 2010, fixed term 12 months, rent payable monthly. So SPT commenced 27 July with T period 27 to 26th each month. The Notice expiry date should read 'after 26th Oct'. ie last day of T period. IMO this does not make the Notice invalid, provided the L does not seek Court repo Order before 27 Nov. or require you to vacate by 26 Nov. s21 is not a NTQ, so even if you did decide to comply, you would be required to serve your own 1 month NTQ by 26 Oct and vacate by 26th of following month. Your valid NTQ terminates T, a LL s21 does not.

A valid s21 remains 'live' for duratation of AST after due expiry.

I would note LA still has time to realise their mistake and re-serve correctly worded s21 by First Class mail by 26 Aug.

I doubt LL will be happy with LA incompetence if he really wants possession after 26 Oct.

You are entitled to stay until LL obtains Court order/legal Bailiff eviction, all of which may impact current LL ref for future T.

At some future point LL will secure repo via s21.

[sytra]

I did not ask for date signed nor when you pay rent, but dates specified in AST (subtle diff).

Sorry, the ast states rent due monthly. And tenancy commences on 27th, the last renewal in 2010 also says that we can stay for further 12 months from the expiry of our current term on 26th july 2010.

[sytra]

Hi

 

We have been on an AST since 2007 when we got a certificate for our deposit from our letting agents, I have checked the number and it says our deposit IS protected.

 

We have since been served an S21 and have left the property, sent the keys back, agency has done an inventory and being really petty complained that a 2'x3' cupboard floor was dirty, the only one we missed in the whole house and will take 10 seconds to clean however they insist on getting cleaners in and deducting the deposit, we are still waiting to hear how much, although i believe they are planning to try and get over £100 so that they can claim their £75+vat fee as they have told me to phone them and come to an agreement so they can waive the fee.

 

My question is although we have the deposit certificate we DIDN'T get anything else, no terms nothing, am i correct in thinking that the agency has technically failed to protect the deposit properly?

 

If that is the case will we be entitled to claim off the landlord even though we have left the property at the expiry of the S21?

 

At the moment we have no way of knowing how to claim the deposit or anything

 

I look forward to your help

 

Sytra

[mariner51]

If T commenced in 2007, then 'prescribed info' was not then required.

It is poss that later s21 was invalid, but you decided to accept it and move out by expiry date. You accept the deposit was protected in an approved scheme, then wait for LA/LL to provide estimate for cleaning, then raise a claim with DPS ADR. They will then have to provide evidence of state at beginning & end of T. Also if only £100 is in dispute, DPS should release remainder of deposit to you, by return. LL can refuse to engage with ADR. If so he will have to sue via SCC and still provide evidence to support his claim.

Keep a copy of move-out inventory and LAs claim letter.

[raydetinu]

first as you have left the property, you need to claim deposit back from scheme, you can do this by email, then it will be upto the LL/agent say they want to deduct anything. Agent cannot claim any fees with respect of deductions, which must be fair and valid, and exclude wear and tear.