Desperate help required !! N224 refused!!

[Jason_Cummins]

Hello All...

 

I am desperately seeking help. We been a victim of identity fraud where someone had registered a car on my dads name and got away with it for few months. In that short space of time, they incurred 7 parking tickets in my dads name. We first got to know about the fines after receiving bailiff letters by which it was too late to appeal..... So following on, I filed TE7 and TE9 forms to the county court. They all got refused as they didn't believ that we had not received any of the notices!! By this time each ticket was £400+. Few weeks back I filed N244 forms explaining the same thing for ech of the fine, paying a £45 court fee each. I have just refused letters today saying the N244's have also been refused!! Which is absoutely absurd and I am so angry!!!

 

What are my options left???? I do not want to pay £500+ for each ticket (total = nearly £4000!!!)

 

Please help!!

 

Thanks in advanced!

 

Jason

[green_and_mean]

How did they manage to register a vehicle and get parking tickets at your address without your knowledge?

[Jason_Cummins]

Well, we didn't receive the log book after the car had been registered, or any other correspondence associated to the car. We've had issues previously where our mail has been intercepted.

[green_and_mean]

Well, we didn't receive the log book after the car had been registered, or any other correspondence associated to the car. We've had issues previously where our mail has been intercepted.

 

I hate to sound sceptical but how did the person manage to steal the log book, 7 NTOs, 7 charge certificates, 7 order for recoverys all sent at different times? Do you know the person responsible?

[sailor sam]

At least 21 items of mail being intercepted and it has happend before? No doubt then you have previously reported this to the Royal Mail and will have correspondence to show it.

[Jason_Cummins]

My dad does 12 hour nightshifts everyday, so he is literally either sleeping during the day or at work in the evenings. I have been working in a different city for the past 2 years, and only came to London intermittently. Even with our time spent outside our home, I am bewildered that we have remained in the dark of what was potentially going on beneath our noses! Something clever has taken place which has prevented us from finding out and yet we do not know who this is, on the flipside I would not doubt for a second if the fault lied with the council as they are not the most competent, which I have come to learn over the decades of living here.

 

The problem I face is that I am not being given the opportunity to explain this to anyone. I have wrote to the council and the County Court with the relevant Crime Ref and appeals etc, but they didnt want to hear it and constant bailiff harrassment is making lives hell! MY TE7 and TE9 forms were refused with no clear explanantion given, and now the N224 with no clear explanation.

[sailor sam]

Do you live in a building with a communial letter/mail box facility or something?

[Jason_Cummins]

The mail interception and incorrect mail was previously bearable,. I.e. 3 years ago we used to receive constant bailiff letters for outstanding gas bills, which was resolved by phoning gas company and bailiff co. and advising that mail had been returned as that person did not live at the address. 4 years ago, we didn't receive our Insurance certificate for our car, even though the insurance company claimed they had sent it twice in first class post. As the occasions were not frequent, we had been reluctant to do anything about it...

 

I challenged the council to provide me insurance proof regarding the car, as surely one cannot get away with driving a vehicle for atleast 6 months? But they were unable to deliver...

[green_and_mean]

What did you report to the Police?

[Jason_Cummins]

My dad lives in a normal terraced house in London. The contraventions were all timed from between 08:00 - 09:30, locally too.

[Jason_Cummins]

- False registration of a vehicle under fathers name

- Identity theft

 

I was provided a CRN, but their investigations are still 'ongoing'

[green_and_mean]

Unless you have a ghost or a dishonest postman I fail to see how someone can be selectively stealing mail on a daily basis, there is more to this than we are being told.

[Jason_Cummins]

It is hard to believe... I agree! And had I be in your shoes, I would think the same... but this is the knowledge that I have and I can only make assumptions as to what may have happened. If you can suggest someone I can speak with to find out more, or get further assistance from then please do let me know.

 

Ultimately I am still indebted with a massive fine to the council that we have not been responsible for..... and there seems to be no way getting it waived!

[green_and_mean]

If it is true it seems a lot of fuss to take for no particular reason, he could have just used a false name or false address. I would be more worried that this is not part of a larger problem and he hasn't actually purchased the car on credit in your fathers name or other similar fraud? It may not help with this case but have you checked the online credit reference sites to make sure he hasn't had loans taken out in his name?

[Jason_Cummins]

I have checked with the bank/utility company and everything seems to be normal. Nothing 'dodgy' has happened since then either..... these contraventions date back to last year.....

 

I have spent a lot of man hours writing letters, filing forms and bashing my head with the council and NCC !! It's really disheartening that yet still I am getting refused by the CC.

 

I have been given an option to 'apply to set aside or vary the order under Part 23 Rule 10'...... Does anyone know what this means?

[Jamberson]

Let me take a guess -

 

The car was registered in your father's name. Therefore, he is liable. Therefore the bailiff warrant is against him. Therefore he needs to challenge it. However he hasn't done so.

 

Meantime, you have tried to challenge something you're not liable for and the courts have of course rejected you application.

 

Is that correct? If so the way forward is to have the person liable challenge his liability.

[Jason_Cummins]

Let me take a guess -

 

The car was registered in your father's name. Therefore, he is liable. Therefore the bailiff warrant is against him. Therefore he needs to challenge it. However he hasn't done so.

 

Meantime, you have tried to challenge something you're not liable for and the courts have of course rejected you application.

 

Is that correct? If so the way forward is to have the person liable challenge his liability.

 

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

I initially filed the N224's on his behalf, but they reverted back to me saying that I could not represent for him. So I had my father (the respondent) file the N224's himself with the same content, and they were refused.

[Jamberson]

Do you know on what grounds?

[Jason_Cummins]

Do you know on what grounds?

 

TE7/TE9 Refused - They said The notices were sent so I 'should've received them. Nothing about the fact that we bloody don't own the vehicle!!! Money hungry B***ds!!

 

N224 Refused - No reason provided.

[Jamberson]

When you apply for an N244, you normally request a hearing before a court officer. Did you do this? If so, did they reject it without a hearing, or did you attend a hearing and lose the case?

[cream70]

His first post suggests it was refused without a hearing.

[Old Snowy]

These circumstances do stretch credibility to the limit but it is possible. However, the person concerned is likely to be close to you or your father and may well still have access to your property if they are not a family member. The alternative, unfortunately, is that your father has been somewhat economic with the truth.

Has your father ever permitted anyone to use the address for correspondence purposes?

Did your father, another family member or anyone else previously resident (such as a lodger or friend) once own the vehicle involved or allow a third party to register it in his name? (Being the registered keeper is not necessarily synonymous with ownership).

If the answer to the above is "yes" then, aside from your father, does that person still have access (by key) to your father's address?

If after honestly answering the above you remain none the wiser then in order to stop this happening you will need to redirect your father's mail to another address out of the immediate area and change the locks on his front and back doors.

[Jamberson]

It depends where the bailiff got the address from, and whether documentation really was sent to the home address of the father. I feel the whole story has not been told yet - the more info we have, the better.

 

Maybe you can find out what address the council had on file and if it came straight from DVLA? If it is the correct address, then no-one will believe that none of the stacks of letters were delivered, nor that you've heard nothing else about this vehicle ever. Just the fact that the charges are as you say, £500 per PCN is evidence that the case was being chased for a while.

 

Ultimately it's your father who is liable and who should be on here seeking advice. He needs to deal with it - his debt. In terms of advice, it would be better to get the facts straight from him and he can address queries over the case.

[Jason_Cummins]

Sorry for the late reply.

 

I opted for the 'without a hearing' option on the N224 forms as we couldn't afford to pay the extra £40 per ticket to have it heard infront of a court officer, and I was somehow convinced that the N224's would get accepted as I have a strong case. Most forums said they would be indifferent between the two options.

 

The information provided is exact to what we know, and what I have supplied on here. I'd get my father to present his case on here but I know everything about whats happened, if not more as I have taken ownership and been active in trying to get it resolved. My dad is not computer literate.

 

Regarding how/why/what about the fake registration, I am letting the police deal with it. Regarding the notices, I only know what I have said. Only other possible scenario I can think of is that it was intercepted at royal mail offices.... would I be surprised? No. I do believe this person (fake registration guy) is a local and is familiar with the movements of me and my dad and hence taken advantage. My immediete concerns were crimes committed by this vehicle, but there seems to be none! :s

 

All this info has already been supplied to the council in my TE9 appeal form, but from their perspective... until the police do not revert with suspects, my dad would be liable.

 

Main thing is what do I do from here??

 

What is this Part 23 Rule 10? (Will it help?)

 

Thank you....

[Jamberson]

It sounds like the Part 23 option is the only one open. It is rare for N244s to be refused, and I'm not sure what the exact procedure is. I think it entails filing another N244. If you do, you stand a much better chance of winning if you attend in person. You can apply for costs, so that if you win, you can get the fee refunded.

 

I know you consider you have a strong case, but I disagree. I think your explanation is difficult to accept - I'm not saying it isn't truthful, but you surely can appreciate how strange it all is. That's why it would help to appear in person - on paper it is very odd indeed.

 

I would go with the Part 23 thing - maybe phone the court if you need guidance. I think you have a 7-day limit as well.

 

Also try and confirm where the council/bailiffs obtained your address. You can just phone the council and ask them. It may not be from DVLA after all, and if not, that's a point in your favour.