Cap1 & CCA return

[lookinforinfo]

I have a very hypothetical question which relates to the CCA.When does an "extortinate credit bargin" arise.For example Mr X has a Barclayshark card with an APR of 17%.Now Mr X goes out and spends £1000 and only pays the minimum amount each month its going to take him at least 15 years plus to pay it back.Now if we have got a mathamatican on the forum could he/she work this out bearing in mind one of the card providers tatics is to calculate the interest from different dates.

 

Terminator, I don't think you have a hope in hell of convincing a Court that

17% represents an extortionate credit bargain. Given that the criteria is

that either the payments are either "grossly exorbitant" or they they "grossly

contravene ordinary principles of fair dealing" ,it would appear that the claim

would fail on both counts. Especially as the vast majority of c/c companies

charge in and around that sort of percentage. And cards that offer lower

rates correspondingly demand that the customer has a higher disposable income or at least has less debt exposure relative to their income.

 

Other factors taken into account will be the fact that c/c debt is unsecured,

the levels of fraud incurred and the fact that there is a measure of

security offered viz a viz the guarantee in transactions over £100.

 

The problem with c/cs is not so much their interest rate, but the low minimum

repayment. Were that raised by even a couple of per cent, it may well

have a dramatic effect in lowering the repayment time.

 

And as another Judge rightly remarked [not sure if it was in the Wilson case]

if the lender doesn't feel that he is getting sufficient return for his money in

relation to the risk involved, then he won't lend.

[Peterbard]

I think terminator was just using that as a illustration.

I have in my work with the credit union come across companies that wee opperating on an APR of 350%.

 

How do they get away with it ? they get away with it because the people that they lend to can't afford to make a complaint.

 

Peter

[angry cat]

Hi Guys-

 

Re: CC interest rates. I believe that the benchmark figure is 25% and that rates above that are considered to be extortionate - if that is the correct term.

 

I hope this helps?

 

Love AC

[angry cat]

Interestingly enough and even though I made a Formal Complaint re unfair charges - meaning that I was in Dispute with a cc company (MBNA) my interest rate was hiked up to 24.9%. Please note, just under 25% but only just.

CC companies raise the interest rate even when you miss one payment, as they consider one a bad risk - this practice is caused 'International Default.

 

AC

[un1boy]

going off the subject a little bit, does the lender have to supply a copy of the terms and confitions to satisfy a 77-79 request?

 

Or is it only the agrrement?

[Guest DEATHLORD]

Hi

The grounds for extortinate credit rate is one the OFC looked at some time ago and found in the browers and some companies had to lower their rate.

The reason as some one has said before the way these companies get away with 290 to 350% is becuase they could not complaine before but NOW they CAN and are doing so.

[Guest The Terminator]

going off the subject a little bit, does the lender have to supply a copy of the terms and confitions to satisfy a 77-79 request?

 

Or is it only the agrrement?

 

The agreement should have the terms and conditions written into it and signed by both parties.

[un1boy]

Thansk terminator -s o in the cases where I have been sent an agreement but no sniff of the T&C's, then they have failed to comply with my sec 77-79 request?!

[Guest The Terminator]

Thansk terminator -s o in the cases where I have been sent an agreement but no sniff of the T&C's, then they have failed to comply with my sec 77-79 request?!

 

Thats correct they have not met the requirements of S78

 

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

it's the wording any other document but sending the T&C only doe's not meet the requirements of this section of the Act.

[elsinore]

shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

 

 

I've extended your underlining a bit Terminator,

 

un1boy, if any (or all) of your agreements refer to 'terms and conditions', then that cements the argument and you have them over the proverbial barrel!

 

Well done Terminator, more ammo!

 

Elsinore.

[un1boy]

Thanks so much guys!!!

 

All I have been sent is agreements which mention the terms but I don't have a copy of any of them!!!

[Fullyskinted]

hehehehe. Clocks ticking on three CC Cos for me at the mo 9 days to go!

[lookinforinfo]

Hi

The grounds for extortinate credit rate is one the OFC looked at some time ago and found in the browers and some companies had to lower their rate.

The reason as some one has said before the way these companies get away with 290 to 350% is becuase they could not complaine before but NOW they CAN and are doing so.

 

Cheers for that Deathlord. How is your own case coming on?

[lookinforinfo]

Uniboy, The copy of the T&Cs you want is the one that was in force when you signed the agreement, not the current ones.

[e28bigalbexley]

Hi all

Should then the template in the Debt and Bayliffs forum (which a lot people use ) be amended to take into account what has just been said.

 

ie: actually quote the Act itself so there can be no misunderstandings.

 

AL:)

[un1boy]

Uniboy, The copy of the T&Cs you want is the one that was in force when you signed the agreement, not the current ones.

 

Oh my, Oh my - I have not been sent ANY terms and conditions for any of them!!!

 

That means that all the ones I thought hadn't defaulted have!!!

 

And their letter said, we look forward to receiving your payments!!

 

the cheeky a-holes!!

 

Oh my god.....

[tamadus]

Oh my, Oh my - I have not been sent ANY terms and conditions for any of them!!!

 

That means that all the ones I thought hadn't defaulted have!!!

 

And their letter said, we look forward to receiving your payments!!

 

the cheeky a-holes!!

 

Oh my god.....

 

You have to give them full marks for trying lol.

 

A CCA request under 77-79 should include any other document referred to in the agreement. That includes terms and conditions, which are the only thing that allows them to modify the agreement at any time ( like rate changes or to include penalty charges lol).

 

Those terms and conditions MUST be those in force at the time of signing the agreement. for exactly the reason given above.

 

I have also recently discovered that sending T&C in response to a CCA request and no agreement is an offence in itself, just as an agreement without T&C's.

[un1boy]

Well I must say, 2007 is going to be a very interesting year for my lenders - I best get writing, eh?

[Guest The Terminator]

Well I must say, 2007 is going to be a very interesting year for my lenders - I best get writing, eh?

 

Well Im expecting a very nasty letter back from a DCA this week.I'll give em try and intimidate the Terminator their nightmare only just starting:D

[un1boy]

Hehe, well keep us posted!

[tamadus]

I'm expecting a nasty 'You've got to be joking' letter back very soon from my good friends at Barclaycard

[Fullyskinted]

I'm expecting a nasty 'You've got to be joking' letter back very soon from my good friends at Barclaycard

 

 

PM me / post it up whren you get it. Im expecting one by the 20th

[meagain]

CC companies raise the interest rate even when you miss one payment, as they consider one a bad risk - this practice is caused 'International Default.

 

You're thinking of "universal default", where missing a payment with one lender causes your rates with another to increase. This practice is (indirectly) illegal in the UK.

[JonCris]

Thanks so much guys!!!

 

All I have been sent is agreements which mention the terms but I don't have a copy of any of them!!!

 

Then they are stuffed. Just make sure that if they do come up with a set of T's & C's they are the ones in force at the time of the agreement. Later ones would be invalid..............unless you signed again

[meagain]

If I've read everything right, they need to send the original terms, and also the current terms if they have changed since the original - they need to demonstrate the terms under which agreement currently exists, but also need the originals which include the bit saying that they may be altered.