Cap1 & CCA return

[Mike220359]

Please, please pm don't post the letters on here, section 85 is one of the best weapons, far more potent than the unfair terms and conditions act. I know it's tempting but keep your tactics secret until you have success.

 

Mike

[reidnet]

Just checked on Royal Mail website and the letter has landed on somebodies desk this morning, if you feel an earthquake starting its centred on Barclaycards offices

 

Ahhh aint you a bit early for the Fireworks..lol thought that was 5th Nov..

 

Good Luck Tamadus

 

Will be watching with Interest (but not at 29.8%..lol)

 

Ian

[tamadus]

I fully agree Mike anbd have Pm'd un1boy to contact me privately.

 

reidnet, I started the fireworks a little earlier but I am sure they will be strung out until Nov 5th lol

[e28bigalbexley]

HI great thread, and cannot wait for the outcome.

 

Question:

 

If i had a cc cloned and the cc co. sent me a new card with a totally different 16 digit number thereby changing the account no, would i be right in thinking they SHOULD have sent me a new agreement and i SHOULD have signed it and sent it back.

 

I could'nt, because they didnt:o

[tamadus]

HI great thread, and cannot wait for the outcome.

 

Question:

 

If i had a cc cloned and the cc co. sent me a new card with a totally different 16 digit number thereby changing the account no, would i be right in thinking they SHOULD have sent me a new agreement and i SHOULD have signed it and sent it back.

 

I could'nt, because they didnt:o

 

No because the account will remain the same even though they have changed the card. But, they should have sent you a copy of the original, executed credit agreement as all thats happened is the credit token( the card) has been replaced. The card number isnt neccessarily the same as the account number, although it does cross reference to it.

[e28bigalbexley]

Thanks for that Tamadus

Im pretty sure they just sent a new card with an activation telephone number attached this was back in 2003 i think so dont remember (old timers diesease).

I will put my Letter in the post this morning anyway with £1 po. and give them the 12 working days to see what they come up with. It will give me something to do, only going down the court to take in my N1 for a claim against HBOS so quite an enjoyable day in all.

 

Alan.

[paulwlton]

I;ve a current account and say for instance i have certain financial commitments i need to honour, i ring my Bank the bank does a credit check and agrees to a £1000 overdraft, the bank has just supplied me with credit so would this credit agreement be covered by the 1974 act.

My visa debit card would basicaly become a credit token, ie making purchases with borrowed money and paying this back at a later date.

Any thoughts.

[tamadus]

Thanks for that Tamadus

Im pretty sure they just sent a new card with an activation telephone number attached this was back in 2003 i think so dont remember (old timers diesease).

I will put my Letter in the post this morning anyway with £1 po. and give them the 12 working days to see what they come up with. It will give me something to do, only going down the court to take in my N1 for a claim against HBOS so quite an enjoyable day in all.

 

Alan.

 

Hold fire on sending that £1 until we get to talk later today please, I'm more inclinded to think you need to remind them of their resposibilities under section 85 than make a section 78 request Got to rush out to work very shortly but will be here most of the evening

[tamadus]

I;ve a current account and say for instance i have certain financial commitments i need to honour, i ring my Bank the bank does a credit check and agrees to a £1000 overdraft, the bank has just supplied me with credit so would this credit agreement be covered by the 1974 act.

 

In theory it's covered by the act as a fixed credit agreement, but for some reason I suspect that an overdraft operates under slightly different rules Paul, I'll do some checking later today though in case I am wrong.

[tamadus]

Ok just an update on the Barclaycard saga. Letter just recieved in reply to one I sent them in September ( not the most recent telling them they can no longer enforce it)

 

Basic gist is another rehash of their microfiche argument, but the writer Liz Pickering (assistant to Director - Wow I am impressed ;-) ) actually mentions my section 78 request and I quote.

 

With regards to your request for the signed credit agreement, the copy application previously provided is confirmation thet you signed and agreed to be bound by Barclaycard's Terms and Conditions.

 

Apparantly for the purposes of the Financial Ombudsman Service this is their Final Response

 

Well I hate to say this Ms Pickering but it's not my final response as you should be aware of by now. My request for the copy agreement was not made under the Data Protection Act but was under section 78 of the CCA.

 

Whatever an application form says it is NOT a copy of a signed, executed credit agreement as required under the CCA and my section 78 request. You are officially in criminal default under section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and I no longer acknowledge the debt. In addition you have been in default since approx 1981 under section 85(1) and I expect a full refund of all monies paid to you which could be classed as profits since 1981.

 

Oh, by the way , I don't need 6 months to refer to the Ombudsman, I need 5 minutes to refer it to a judge

 

For some strange reason the song 'The Heat is On' is running through my head8-)

[paulwlton]

Tamadus,

I love it when a plan comes together.

The overdraft along with debit cards arn't covered by s.75 of the act (equall liability) buy the way your realy kicking ass, can't wait to do the same.

[Guest bong]

The overdraft along with debit cards arn't covered by s.75 of the act (equall liability)

 

Morning all,

 

Paul I'm sorry I didn't understand what you wrote here. Do you mind explaining it for me?

[paulwlton]

Yes i am looking into overdraft credit and need to establish if different terms are used regarding the 1974 act, at the moment their seems to be a difference in s.75 equal liability which excludes debit cards and items bought with an arranged overdraft.

[Guest The Terminator]

FT.com / World - Banks upset by reluctance to rein in insolvency deals

 

This just about says it all

[reidnet]

Good to see the Bank getting Kicked from Both Sides :D

[tamadus]

Tamadus,

I love it when a plan comes together.

The overdraft along with debit cards arn't covered by s.75 of the act (equall liability) buy the way your realy kicking ass, can't wait to do the same.

 

Thanks Paul but all I want is a copy of my agreement If they insist on not letting me have what I need to reclaim unlawful charges then I want that agreement, actually I want it anyway now lol.

 

I am going ot assume from their letter which runs to 2 pages and a leaflet but only mentions the agreement for 3 lines that they either dont have it or they expect me to cave in and go away. Hopefully the letter they got yesterday will show them I dont give up easily. I think its safe to assume they cannot produce the signed agreement now as they are so insistant that the application form proves everything. I am going ot get a coffee now and call the CCCS and tell them not to make any more payments to Barclaycard and tell them why. Let you all know shortly what they say :grin:

[tamadus]

Darnation CCCS are closed now so cancelling payments to Barclaycard will have to wait till Monday

[tamadus]

I would just like to say that my opinions are simply that, opinions.

 

If anyone is considering following the course I have taken please be aware that the companies are certain to take this all the way to a Judge. The implications of what the CCA appears to say are huge and will affect every C/C company, bank and loan company in this country. I know I am going to have to face a high powered barrister and try and convince a judge to agree with me (no small feat). This is NOT going to be resolved in a small claims court.

 

This whole avenue is totally untested and is going to take some time to get a decision, which could very easily go against me. It offers a lot of hope to a lot of people but please be aware that it could all vanish overnight.

 

I believe my interpretation of the CCA is correct which is why I am following this route. Unless you personally believe, then please act with caution. I would hate somebody to rush into this with their eyes half closed and end up with nothing but a large legal expense.

[paulwlton]

Are you referring to S85 of the act in your post because S77 and S78 should be very clear to a judge.

[tamadus]

Are you referring to S85 of the act in your post because S77 and S78 should be very clear to a judge.

 

Yes Paul I am, although s85 should also be very clear. I just dont want anyone running off and trying it if they can't take it all the way.

[paulwlton]

Yes s85 looks clear to me too, like you say Tamadus this is all ground breaking stuff and people should understand the full implications of what they are about to do.

[tamadus]

Paul

 

It all looks very clear and specific, but the implications are immense. None of the credit companies are going to simply accept it without a fight at the highest level. My rough calculations for Barclaycard estimate they owe me something in the order of £15,000 plus they will have to completely remove any adverse information from my credit file. I realise its going to be a long and rocky ride before they roll over because of the amount involved and I don't want anyone thinking it's a clear cut thing.

[meagain]

We've been here before. You need to take it in its intended context. SS77/78 are for disputes - we don't know if this agreement can be enforced at law, so we need to produce the agreement complete with signatures from both sides. S85 is for replacement cards - the agreement is not in doubt (otherwise it would be caught out by an earlier part - S61 perhaps? - that relates to unsolicited credit-tokens).

[Guest The Terminator]

We've been here before. You need to take it in its intended context. SS77/78 are for disputes - we don't know if this agreement can be enforced at law, so we need to produce the agreement complete with signatures from both sides. S85 is for replacement cards - the agreement is not in doubt (otherwise it would be caught out by an earlier part - S61 perhaps? - that relates to unsolicited credit-tokens).

 

All sections of every law should be taken in its context.If you read back through the posts you will see that I mentioned Wilson vs First County which proved that the CCA(1974) is not all one-sided in the banks,cc providers favour due to the way of it's interpratation.If you look at the T&C of all the CC Providers you will find that they are not worth the paper that they are written on because everyone issued before May this year had the penalty charges written into them so therefore it would be an unfair contract, would be null and void and unenforceable. As for S85 I have had this confirmed that what the law says must be complied with otherwise it is a breach not only of the law but of contract as well.I'm with Tamadus, Mike and the others on this one and I think it is only a matter of time before the "legalised theives" and yes MIB that's what you are have to accept that it is them in breach and not the consumer

[Guest The Terminator]

I fully agree Mike anbd have Pm'd un1boy to contact me privately.

 

reidnet, I started the fireworks a little earlier but I am sure they will be strung out until Nov 5th lol

 

I've got plenty of fireworks to let off but im going to save my biggest firework for last.