CRB Help Needed

[CarolineT]

Hello to Everyone,

 

I really need some help. I have no idea what to do next, In August 2011,

 

My CRb was returned to me - with a conviction on it, the conviction does not belong to me,

 

I was, convicted of a crime on the same day in 1993 and was fined 250 pound,

I have disputed this with CRB and after sitting at home now for 3 months not being paid,

Nottinghamshire Police say that the record stands and they will not change it,

this means I will now loose my job ,

How do I get the records and what can I do, and how do I do it ?

plzzzzzzzzz if you know plzzzzzzzzzzzz tell me

 

thankyou thankyou

 

Caroline

[ravinwayne]

Under the rehibilitaion of offenders act .... Unless you was sentenced to 2.5 yrs or more it would be a spent conviction why would it effect your job?

[ravinwayne]

Under the rehibilitaion of offenders act .... Unless you was sentenced to 2.5 yrs In prison or more it would be a spent conviction why would it effect your job?

[CarolineT]

Because I come into contact with Children and velnerable adults -

[ravinwayne]

Aha i see now I had a mate a few years ago with a similar issue in the end he went to Scotland yard to have his fingerprints taken etc after the realised the error they ammended the CRB... I would start by raising a complaint to the CRB people is it disclosure Scotland?

 

You may run into a problem if you didn't disclose your spent conviction though!

[CarolineT]

Hi, I disclosed my conviction, it was 18 years ago and to be honest I paid my fine, i have raised it with CRB, they wrote to Nottingham Police who have said

1 we dont have those records we need the microfilm

2 we have the microfilm the records are not clear we have to get the Court documents

3 we have the court papers, what we say still stands and we will not change it

were do I go now, I know the record is not mine, I also know that people think Im lying, now I have to prove Im not, I need to find out how I do it, quickly.

[ravinwayne]

Can you try asking a solicitor to get hold of a copy of the court papers! And worse case scenario apply through the courts to have it removed?

[CarolineT]

I thought there was a way to do it properly, I been googling and telephoning solicitors all day, I have not yet found a solicitor that "deals " with this sort of a case,

I am lucky that my employer believes I am telling the truth, and I did not hide my actual conviction

[ravinwayne]

Have you had any other crb checks done? If so did it show up on a previous one?

 

I have all mine going back 6 yrs

[CarolineT]

I have had 5 previous crb from 2005 - 2009 which were all clear

[papasmurf1cx]

Did you have your fingerprints taken for the offence you WERE convicted of? What is the nature of the offence that you are disputing?

 

If the answer to the first question is yes, and the answer to the second question is that, THAT offence is recordable and fingerprints were taken at the point of charging and then, if a term of imprisonment was the sentence, then those fingerprints would not be a match to yours.

 

The key to proving that a miscarriage has happened is to go on the fingerprint trail.

[CarolineT]

Hi thanks for your help, yes I do believe that i did, Im not 100% sure but i would think so, I was charged and fined 250 pound, the other three persons were charged with something more serious, some how I have got on my CRB thier charge and my fine, the other 3 were sent to prison for 18 months, however the Police are unwilling to correct the file, I know what I was charged with and I need to get my record straight before it does anymore damage..... this was 1993

[ravinwayne]

Taking a wild guess on where i would go next .... Next stop the IPCC explain to them its a mistake and it may effect your job i'm sure they have to look at the complaint as it is with the police not CRB - hope this helps

[CarolineT]

Thanks for your help. I have contacted Nottingham Crown Court and asked about having a copy of my original charge sheet, they have confirmed that I can, I faxed them this morning all the details that I can remember, Also I contacted the magistrates Court and asked them if they could trace me also, I paid my fine there and the case was sent from Magistrates to Crown, they may be able to, now I just have to wait until someone comes back to me.

[CarolineT]

When I have all the paperwork I will then go to IPCC - I have had no salary for 3 months, my son and I are living on 54pound a week

[ravesafe]

i dont know if this is any help but a mate of mine who is a PE teacher in the west midlands was caught with a class B drug when he was 20. He is now 30 and has to go in front of a council "board" every 5 years where they ask him pointless stupid questions like:

 

tell me about the reason you got arrested?

how did you feel?

would you do it again?

 

after the "interview" they decide if he can still work with children but he has to do this every 5 years, answering the same, pointless questions.

 

 

 

i dread to think what will happen if he becomes a head of department and all of a sudden they find him unable to work with children

[CarolineT]

My story is something similiar, very stupid childish , my brotherd friend worked at qwiksave and used to take the money on a saturday to the bank, He said to my brother and his friend come and rob me on saturday morning, they did, the police came to arrest my brother, he wasnt in and they got me instead, who knew all about it as my brother had borrowed my car - hence I got prosecuted, i paid my fine and got on with my life

when we are in your teens and early twenties we do seem to think we infallable, 18 years later look what happens, my problem is my CRb shows the wrong conviction, hopfully I will be able to sort it out, I dont understand why there is not a proper procedure inplace for this, the one we have clearly does not work or the police do not want to finalize it by looking at it properly

[papasmurf1cx]

Caroline please can you explain why you think it is the "wrong" conviction? It would be very helpful if you actually stated what you were charged with and where you were actually sentenced ie the magistrates or the crown court.

 

When you say "rob" do you actually mean robbery or theft? The distinction is that robbery is theft + violence (or the threat of violence eg brandishing a weapon to enable the theft) as opposed to merely stealing.

[CONCILLIATOR]

Caroline,

 

I would hazard that there is nobody on this site who is qualified to re-try your case however much of your personal affairs you care to divulge. The conviction that turned up on the last CRB was not the actual conviction on your record. In that sense it is the ‘wrong’ conviction. Haggling over the terminology will not alter that basic fact. The object, what you asked for, was to help you to find a way to rectify serious clerical errors in your records by the authorities. One would suppose from the last post that we were hearing an appeal by one of the Great Train Robbers.

 

I realise it might seem laughable in some quarters but have you considered contacting your Member of Parliament? Politicians generally are not held in high regard these days but they can be invaluable, in this sort of situation, in spurring stuffy officialdom into getting their finger out.

 

If I read right the clue as to your location here are the details of your local MP, Nicholas Dakin, Labour MP for S****horpe:

 

Nicholas Dakin, MP

18a Ethel Court,

S****horpe.

DN15 6RP

 

S****horpe Office Tel. No: 01724 842000

Email: nic.dakin.mp@parliament.uk

 

I suggest it would do no harm to send an email along the following lines straight away. Copy in the form of a letter to your local Labour Party Office. (Change name obviously if I have the name wrong)

 

 

[Your name, address and email address]

 

Dear Mr Dakin,

 

I really need some help as I have no idea what to do next. I hope that through your good offices you will be able to assist in hurrying up the process by which officialdom can correct a mistake that has the likely outcome of costing me my job.

 

Here, basically, is the problem: In August 2011 my CRB check was returned to me with a conviction on it. The crime for which it asserts I was convicted, and served time for, is.....

 

[Give a description here of what that alleged crime was]

 

I was not accused of, charged with or convicted of this crime.

 

I was convicted of a crime on the same day in 1993, and was fined £250, but this was different from the conviction that is now being accredited to me. My conviction was for....

 

[Give a description here of what your actual conviction was for]

 

I have pointed out and disputed this mistake with CRB, they wrote to Nottingham Police who have said:

 

1.

We don’t have those records we need the microfilm.

2.

We have the microfilm the records are not clear we have to get the Court documents.

3.

We have the court papers; what we say still stands, and we will not change it.

I have contacted Nottingham Crown Court and asked about having a copy of my original charge sheet, they have confirmed that I can. I faxed them this morning all the details that I can remember. I also contacted the Magistrates Court form which my case was referred to the Crown Court and where I paid the £250 fine for records relating to my case.

 

As you will appreciate, cutting through red tape is not easy at the best of times for the average citizen. The wheels grind exceeding slow and I suspect that if I involve the Independent Police Complaints Commission it could take years.

 

In the meantime, although my employers accept my innocence and sympathise, their hands are tied. My job is on the line and my son and I have been compelled to live on £54 a week for the past 3 months.

 

Any guidance and help in righting this wrong and speeding up the process would be gratefully welcomed and appreciated, and I look forward to hearing from you at your earliest convenience.

 

Yours faithfully,

Etc. Etc.

[papasmurf1cx]

Despite what Concilliator states, there was a reason I asked for the information above. I was wondering why the Police would not try and put the problem right. It struck me that the charge may have been one where you are misunderstanding the nature of what happened at the time. Many people are charged with the 'main' offence when actually their part was less involved.

 

The circumstances you revealed prior to my asking seemed to be one of those occasions where the Police could charge with the most serious matter but that later at court the CPS reduce that original charge to a lessor one, which then may account for your misunderstanding of the situation.

 

But I agree with Concilliator that you don't have to reveal anything at all if you don't want to. The trouble with some people is that they don't see the whole picture and feel that their own little world is the one that really matters. We are all on here to try and help, sometime the way threads go are not clear at the start. I think I am qualified to understand Police processes, no-one is here to re try you but to merely help you through this problem.

[CarolineT]

Ho papasmurf,

In answer to your question, I was convicted of Aiding and Abbetting as I lent my brother the car

My brother and his friend were charged with Theft from a person - no violence at all

the third person who worked for kwiksave - I have no idea what sentance he got

My CRb states i was convicted of theft from a person, in fact i was in London when the crime took place,

[CarolineT]

Concilliator, thank you for that letter, You also have the correct Mp for this area, unfortunatley I have already contacted him ..................no reponse, However your letter is much better than mine, I feel as though I should go back to school after reading yours thankyou

I honestly dont mind revealing my conviction, Its my only one, and if no one makes a mistake in their life , how do we learn we just did that wrong!!!!!!!! I have always disclosed it, and never had a problem until now, I have to say its a very humbling experience living on 54 pound a week for two people, Its depressing, do you think I could now get a job going around schools telling children of the plight to come if they commit a crime !!!!!!!!!

[papasmurf1cx]

Ho papasmurf,

In answer to your question, I was convicted of Aiding and Abbetting as I lent my brother the car

My brother and his friend were charged with Theft from a person - no violence at all

the third person who worked for kwiksave - I have no idea what sentance he got

My CRb states i was convicted of theft from a person, in fact i was in London when the crime took place,

 

Hi Caroline

 

Thanks for telling us that. I think I know why you are so incensed that you think you have the someone else's conviction ie you were nowhere near the actual PHYSICAL commiting of the offence. The trouble being that aiding abetting counselling and procuring the commission of a substantive offence does not mean that you did not commit the actual offence that your brother was charged with. That is the law on aiding and abetting. Look at this link which will explain it a bit better. Look especially about knowledge of something that is going to happen. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accessory_(legal_term)

 

You said that you told the police that you lent your care to your brother knowing he was to use it in a crime. That proves that you had knoweledge before the fact and did something to help the endeavour = criminal knowledge and did nothing to stop it ie tell him to b*gger off and use his own car or someone else's.... your brother has f*cked up your life not the criminal justice system.... that is why you have been told the conviction stands. As far as the law is concerned you could have been on the moon, let alone London, and the conviction for thne SAME OFFENCE as your brother was convicted of ( because there is no offence of aiding and abetting this is merely the law under Section 8 of the Accessories and Abettors Act 1861 (as it was in 1993 but now changed) that was the law that tied those helping criminals do their crime as perpetrators of the actual crime.)

 

Now if all that makes sense to you now and perhaps the problem that you are having in the job market can be solved by other means... but of course perhaps we all need a more focused discussion on how to get past the problem as opposed to focusing on areas that will not be won.

 

Surviving on £52 a week cannot be right btw surely you are in receipt of other benefits?

[Help needed please]

Hi Caroline

papasmurf is right, in that knowing the details of the conviction may help - at least with your employer. I think that the reason you had three 'clear' CRBs and then this one with the conviction on it, may be because the previous ones were standard CRBs and your latest job requires an 'enhanced' CRB which even shows up spent convictions. I'm a HR manager for the NHS and we often have old convictions show up for applicants or recent starters. The policy that we have in place usually depends on the conviction and whether it was declared or not. Not declaring is usually automatic dismissal, regardless of what the conviction was as the applicant/new starter is dishonest. However, you declared yours (albeit for a lesser offence). If declared, the decision we then have to make is based purely on 'risk' and the type of conviction and age of it carries great weight in this decision. If the offence you are listed as being convicted of poses a risk, your employment could be in jeopardy unless you get it corrected. If you were convicted of anything non-violent or fraud etc, you are unlikely to be a direct threat in your work so in that case, also taking the age of the conviction into account, we would unlikely dismiss. The way CRBs are conducted is set to change very soon as employers should not have the right to know about convictions which are not relevant to the post in the same way that no other employer currently gets to know if their waitress or shop assistant is a thief etc. In the new system (Indepenent Safeguarding Authority), employers including health and schools etc, will only get to know about convictions which suggest a risk relating directly to the children or vulnerable adults in their care and no other conviction types will be revealed. Depending on the conviction type, it may be worth re-approaching your employer and explaining that it may not be relevant anyway and in the future, they wouldn't have even got to know about it.

[papasmurf1cx]

I would hazard that there is nobody on this site who is qualified to re-try your case however much of your personal affairs you care to divulge. The conviction that turned up on the last CRB was not the actual conviction on your record. In that sense it is the ‘wrong’ conviction. Haggling over the terminology will not alter that basic fact. The object, what you asked for, was to help you to find a way to rectify serious clerical errors in your records by the authorities. One would suppose from the last post that we were hearing an appeal by one of the Great Train Robbers.

 

 

 

 

 

@ CONCILLIATOR "that basic fact" & "serious clerical errors" was not all that it appeared to be !! One supposes that the Great Train Robbers would have been charged with murder had the law of murder not limited the death of the train driver to past the year and a day that the law was at that time !! The seriousness of a crime does not always appear from the charge but the sentence.... Caroline was obviously treated leniently by the judge £250 fine as opposed to 18 months imprisonment seems quite equitable to me !! Perhaps you won't be so quick to put fellow caggers down in the future.... we all have some contribution to make.