Bbs alloys are not homologated for vw t5 transporter

[heliosuk]

At that point in time this was correct but on further reflection considerably further on I made the decision that the reality was there was little hope in pursuing. Futher, I was not in receipt of what I asked for.

 

By all means you can carry on ill advising people to persuit the legal route but you are right, they can persue this option. What you don't ever point out is the risk.

 

I relation to this case, it all seems to hinge on what was said to the suppiler.

 

With respect, I don't think you have latched on to some fundamental issues which have been apparent from the start of this post.

 

It does not matter if the wheels are compliant. They were apparently on the info supplied according to them. The fact that the manufactuer does not rate them only means that they have not been tested to that loading.Reality is that they probably were and are ok to use.

 

Further, it is not illegal to sell parts not suitable for use in the UK, in many circumstances it's not legal to use them on the road.

 

Eugines wheels fall under this category.

 

You really should refrain from the court action route if it is avoidable at all costs as generally it does not work, will not work and cannot work.

 

Perhaps you might like to consider your future advice as to date most peoplewho have followed it have lost big time?

[sailor sam]

Nobody has mentioned the word 'compliant' as that isn't the issue. Also, I can't recall suggesting that the wheels wern't suitable for use in the UK and I don't think the manufacturer stated this either. What they did suggest, in writing, that the wheels were not recommended for Eugene's vehicle. So, we have a supplier recommending wheels which the manufacturer says are not suitable. OK, we only have Eugene's information on how the wheels were actually ordered. But reading his emails to the supplier would suggest to me that the supplier had been given the correct info about the vehicle. To me (and obviously according to you, i'm way off the mark), it says that the wheels were miss-sold and even the manufacture seems to be backing that up.

 

Again, you seem to be saying that no one has any chance with the SOGA and it may as well not exist. For your information, I will always look and advice an OP to remedy a situation with a trader amicably first but if that fails, I certainly won't suggest that a consumer simply rolls over if I think they have a case.

 

As for your closing snide remark about the quality of my advice... you obviously havn't considered the possibility that those who have lost 'big time', may have jeopardised their cases themselves by either giving the wrong or inaccurate information from the start or not followed the advice given properly. If I have any doubts about a 'case', I will always suggest taking face to face advice (as it states in my signature). In any event, I have plenty of feedback which suggests that your 'suggestion' about my future advice is not necessary. Even if it was, I don't think it is your place to dish out such remarks... I think that is the job of the admins.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[oddjobbob]

The sale of goods act was the only option left for eugene to pursue, I completely understand that.

 

What was apparent from early on was that his case was weak, and the simple defence was, 'no, they're not the wheels we sold you, they're the wheels you BOUGHT' (Very simplified)

 

The reality is, as Helios pointed out, that most of the time it appears that the SOGA does NOT work.

 

The reasons for this may be several but in most cases I think we are only told one side of the story (not in Eugene's case)

 

But it must surely be obvious to all that SOGA = very very very last resort, NEVER the first thing to do (unless its outright fraud or something)

[sailor sam]

Bob, SOGA does not just apply to the motor trade as you may well know. If you go into a shop and buy a pair of shoes telling the vendor you are a size 9 and they sell you a size 8, then they have miss-sold you the shoes. If you go into McDonalds and ask for a vegi burger because you are a vegetarian and the sell you one with meat in it, they have miss-sold you the burger. If you go into a Motor Factors and ask them to supply you oil which is suitable and appropriate for you engine (and you provide the correct info) and subsequently your engine gets trashed due to the fact they supplied the wrong oil, then another case of miss-sold.

 

In all cases SOGA will apply (if necessary). It's strange though that in products outside of the motor trade (such as clothes, shoes and food), there seems to be very little arguments raised by retailers. They will simply exchange or re-fund. However, in the motor trade we keep seeing more and more cases like this where poor old Joe public is fleeced. Thing is unlike other forms of consumer buying, the consumer has to rely on the expertise of the retailer form a technical point of view. So when poor old Eugene goes to Performance alloys to order/purchase his wheels, he puts his trust in them to supply him the right ones for his camper.

 

I have little doubt that Eugene gave all the specs required to the sales 'expert' at Performance Alloys and according to him, they said that the wheels were the right ones. Well we now know that they are not and even the manufacturer has confirmed this in writing. As you say, pretty simplistic to me... going on the information supplied by Eugene, the wheels were miss-sold and as such he should be able to get redress via SOGA seeing as Performance Alloys won't play ball.

 

As It happens I recently ordered a new tail box for my Punto HGT from an on-line parts supplier. Gave them all they needed to know and paid for it. 3 days later it arrived. 5 days after that got a mate who works at a large independent garage near me to fit it in his own time. Puts car on ramp, unwraps new tail box and realises it is wrong one. Mine has 2 brackets either side of the 'clam' type box, new one only has one which isn't clam type. Tail pipe on mine comes out at an angle from the box to prevent it being visable from the rear of the car, new one comes straight out of the box and has a chrome end, obviously for cosmetic reasons (which isn't why I bought it). We think that fitting the new one would mean cutting an arch in the rear valance (skirt) to accommodate tail pipe. As with Eugene, I relied on the supplier's expertise in supplying the correct part for my particular vehicle. I took pictures of my old tail box still in situ just in case. Me and my mate went through the garage exhaust catalogue and found indeed it should be of a 'clam' type box with mounting brackets either side.

 

I simply called them up and explained the problem to which they replied "thats the correct box listed for your car". I politely suggested that they look at an exhaust catalogue to check and after a couple of minutes they came back and said "your'e right, it should have 2 brackets but the manufacturer of the one we have supplied have listed it incorrectly.

 

Next day a courier arrived to collect the box and my money was back in my bank the day after that. Moral of the story, mistakes happen, consumer suffers and only has SOGA to turn to if the supplier turns out to be less helpful than the ones I deal with.

 

Eugene is talking over £1600 out of pocket here, what do you suggest?

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[popeyethesailortam]

The sale of goods act was the only option left for eugene to pursue, I completely understand that.

 

What was apparent from early on was that his case was weak, and the simple defence was, 'no, they're not the wheels we sold you, they're the wheels you BOUGHT' (Very simplified)

 

The reality is, as Helios pointed out, that most of the time it appears that the SOGA does NOT work.

 

The reasons for this may be several but in most cases I think we are only told one side of the story (not in Eugene's case)

 

But it must surely be obvious to all that SOGA = very very very last resort, NEVER the first thing to do (unless its outright fraud or something)

 

The other thing that must always be considered before going into court cases, Is that will you get your money. If you contacted a decent solicitor they will tell you from the get go if it is a fight worth taking even if you are right. As you often say bob, winning is not the same as getting paid.

[sailor sam]

Understand what you are saying Popeye but in Eugene's case, we are dealing with a parts supplier so I think it's pretty safe to say that they have adequate things to levy on if necessary.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[oddjobbob]

sam you really do need to get off your high horse when a point of view is expressed that does not concur with yours.

 

It has been demonstrated on here time and time and time again that by and large the sale of goods act does NOT work that well, and many posters on here are given false hope that they have a watertight case (going on what THEY say, I agree) only to ultimately fail.

 

In law you may well be right - I really have no idea, and to be quite honest it doesn't bother me that much whether in law you are or aren't right.

 

In reality you are seriously WRONG mate, I'm sorry, but you really are. The SOGA will, most often, NOT get you a satisfactory outcome to problems involving used cars. Those are the facts of the matter as shown on this forum numerous times.

 

Please try to realise that and try to move on.

 

Now, onto Eugene.

 

Eugene wanted to make his VW look nice, so he bought some nice alloys for it.

 

Fair enough.

 

Except that what we are forgetting here (and Helios will know more of the tech bit of it than I ever will) VW probably spent £5m on research and development to ensure that the factory fitted wheels on the vehicle were the correct ones for that car and matched the suspension settings such as camber, toe in, etc. VW do NOT do this for fun.

 

So Eugene walks into a shop and spots some good looking alloys on the rack.

 

I'd like a set of those, are they ok for my vehicle?

 

Well, as has been pointed out on here, and yet you ignore it, is that PROVIDED the wheels have EU type approval (ie are of good enough quality to be used on the road) and the 5 wheelnut holes are ni the right place, then the answer IN LAW is YES SIR, they are ok for your vehicle.

 

And they ARE ok for his vehicle. Not necessarily correct, but absolutley legal - and they DO look good.

 

But they are NOT the ones that VW set the vehicle up for, so despite the fact that they look the dog's ***** , the car doesn't drive as good as it should.

 

How is that the fault of the seller?

 

As stated, you really should learn to take other points of view on board but you appear to me and maybe a few others to call 'SOGA' very early in a resolution process rather than very late in the process. It's the wrong way round.

 

It makes no difference to me what any OP decides, i've still got my mnoey inmy pocket, and the factory wheels on my car, but Eugene made a mistake by going for stlye over driveabilty and has paid the price.

 

It isn't the shops fault.

 

I shall not comment further.

[sailor sam]

Bob, you clearly are deluded. It's quite obvious that you are the one on a 'high horse' have never been near a civil court case in respect of the SOGA. well I have, more than once... both for myself and to assist friends. In every case (about a dozen over the years) we/I have won. They range from domestic appliance problems, watches, faulty TV AND second hand cars. I look at the facts in front of me in every case. Admittedly, in those cases I have been able to see all the paperwork and speak face to face with the people concerned, something you cannot do in a forum like this.

 

Sorry 'mate', but I stand by everything I have said on Eugene's case. According to his information, he relied on their expertise when ordering the wheels and they have got it wrong. What I am interested in is why and what the judge made his decision to award him £50 plus costs, that dosn't make any sense to me at all at the moment.

 

Anyway, cheerio!

 

Please Note

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[oddjobbob]

well, as a final comment from me, and it will be the last one on this case:

 

Once again, the aggression is unwarranted just because I disagree with your POV. We are allowed to disagree, it is a forum.

 

I do not expect ever to change your mind, nor should you expect ever to change mine.

 

But you need to face reality here, and even Stevie Wonder would be able to see that the SOGA does not generally work for posters with problems on this forum.

 

Most of them fail at the SOGA point of losing in court.

 

Does that mean I'm right and you're wrong? NO! Does it mean you're right and I'm wrong NO!

 

It means we are not told the whole story and the SOGA fails.

 

However in Eugene's case it isn't the sellers fault, it's Eugene's, although had I been the seller here I'd have bought the wheels back off him after a week or so if he wsn't happy for the wholesale price (so he would have lost SOME, but not all his money)

 

And that really is all from me on this matter

[sailor sam]

well, as a final comment from me, and it will be the last one on this case:

 

Once again, the aggression is unwarranted just because I disagree with your POV. We are allowed to disagree, it is a forum.

 

I do not expect ever to change your mind, nor should you expect ever to change mine.

 

But you need to face reality here, and even Stevie Wonder would be able to see that the SOGA does not generally work for posters with problems on this forum.

 

Most of them fail at the SOGA point of losing in court.

 

Does that mean I'm right and you're wrong? NO! Does it mean you're right and I'm wrong NO!

 

It means we are not told the whole story and the SOGA fails.

 

However in Eugene's case it isn't the sellers fault, it's Eugene's, although had I been the seller here I'd have bought the wheels back off him after a week or so if he wsn't happy for the wholesale price (so he would have lost SOME, but not all his money)

 

And that really is all from me on this matter

 

Nail on the head... probably why some fail. 100% agree with you on that. Thats why I put what I put in my signature. Doesn't mean that SOGA doesn't work, it's how you use it that matters.... down to evidence etc. Glad we've finally cleared that up!

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[eugene123]

thank god to hear from more people now ,, i must say i am relaxing in my camper on the coast of bangor n/ireland after i have done my half marathon in newtownards yesterday evening ,

 

ok boys and girls i want to see us all getting on together on this issue of bbs alloys

 

and for sam i must say he did stay with me to the END or maybe not the end yet ? i am still open for advice on this iissue ??

 

bob i did not buy the alloys in the shop i did buy them from there web page which says they are for a T5, ECT

yes i did like the alloys and then i was adivised they were sutable for my motor

 

so bbs says car is to heavy for the wheels

 

i was also advised from sales guy they were van rated on the phone the day after i did buy them which was on the 9/8/2011 from performance alloys

and also that vw said they were ok also

also i was advised they were sutabile for a sportline transporter

and that bbs said they were ok also QUESTION Can i prove that?????????????????????

 

and if i could how would you feel about that, would you looked into it more,

 

would you say they were miss sold if going on my last 4 questions if i could prove it ,

[oddjobbob]

Eugene

 

I wrote this a couple of hours ago.

 

Please read it and it'll save yuor asking the same questions over and over again.

 

'Now, onto Eugene.

 

Eugene wanted to make his VW look nice, so he bought some nice alloys for it.

 

Fair enough.

 

Except that what we are forgetting here (and Helios will know more of the tech bit of it than I ever will) VW probably spent £5m on research and development to ensure that the factory fitted wheels on the vehicle were the correct ones for that car and matched the suspension settings such as camber, toe in, etc. VW do NOT do this for fun.

 

So Eugene walks into a shop and spots some good looking alloys on the rack.

 

I'd like a set of those, are they ok for my vehicle?

 

Well, as has been pointed out on here, and yet you ignore it, is that PROVIDED the wheels have EU type approval (ie are of good enough quality to be used on the road) and the 5 wheelnut holes are ni the right place, then the answer IN LAW is YES SIR, they are ok for your vehicle.

 

And they ARE ok for his vehicle. Not necessarily correct, but absolutley legal - and they DO look good.

 

But they are NOT the ones that VW set the vehicle up for, so despite the fact that they look the dog's ***** , the car doesn't drive as good as it should.

 

How is that the fault of the seller?'

 

[sailor sam]

FFS Bob, we've gone down hill again. Read carefully THE MANUFACTURER OF THE WHEELS SAYS THAT THEY ARE NOT SUITABLE FOR THIS VEHICLE AND DOES NOT RECOMMEND FITTING THEM! THE SUPPLIER HAS BEEN MADE AWARE OF THIS BUT CHOSE NOT TO EXCHANGE OR REFUND. How is that the fault of the consumer?

 

BTW, according to Eugene he didn't walk into the shop to buy them, he bought them via the suppliers website which said they were suitable for his vehicle.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[oddjobbob]

I can read Sam they taught me at school.

 

Also I know about abbreviations too, so FFS please don't sy FFS, lol.

 

What both you and Eugene have failed to appreciate AND STILL DO, 9 PAGES AND 163 POSTS LATER is

 

Well, as has been pointed out on here, and yet you ignore it, is that PROVIDED the wheels have EU type approval (ie are of good enough quality to be used on the road) and the 5 wheelnut holes are ni the right place, then the answer IN LAW is YES SIR, they are ok for your vehicle.

 

And they ARE ok for his vehicle. Not necessarily correct, but absolutley legal - and they DO look good.

 

But they are NOT the ones that VW set the vehicle up for, so despite the fact that they look the dog's ***** , the car doesn't drive as good as it should.

 

How is that the fault of the seller?'

 

 

If they are legally OK for use on that car on a road in the EU and they fit the vehicle then that's that.

 

If they were the best ones to actually USE on the car then VW would fit them from new.

 

But they don't.

 

Becasue they don't suit the suspension set up characteristics of the vehicle.

[oddjobbob]

Also the fact that he bought them on the net makes them even moreso 'the wheels he bought, NOT the wheels they sold him'

[sailor sam]

Eugene according to certain 'experts' here, you have been supplied the correct wheels so forget what the manufacturers of the wheels have told you... they are obviously wrong. The wheels are the right shape and have 5 bolt holes in them... what more do you want?

 

I would still like to see the judgement though (which also must be wrong because the law says the wheels were compliant with UK laws).

 

Please Note

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[oddjobbob]

Oh dear...

 

Well we are where we are here.

 

Eugene is the proud owner of a set of alloys that fit on his car, but make it drive not quite so well as it should.

 

He is £1500 or so poorer.

 

He's been to court and didn't win.

 

HOWEVER

 

Nearly all vibration problems are due to tyres and not wheels, especially on bigger wheels with lower profile tyres.

 

If he gets them balanced PROPERLY (not Kwik fit!) then I predict 90% of the problem will disappear.

 

A wheel should have 1 weight and 1 weight only on it somewhere to balance it - NOY weights on both sides of the rim - it cannot be heavy / light in 2 places and even if it is, 1 weight only will balance it if done properly.

 

Any idiot can put a wheel on the machine and get it to read 000 by putting weights on it - but Eugene needs someonr who knows what to do.

 

However the ride etc will never be as good as it was with original wheels as VW would have researched this and found that the original psec is best.

[sailor sam]

If it was that simple Bob, I bet Eugene will feel a bit silly having spent half his life on this thread!

 

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[eugene123]

PLEASE NOTE BOB WHAT SAM HAS SAID , that is correct what he has said on 163

 

and if i had a recorded phone call , and that is only, IF, in the mean time ,, of me asking performance alloys were they van rated and them saying yes they were , would that mean anything , of them telling me that,

 

so are the van rated, the day after i got alloys i found it hard to find the correct tyre for the loading rate that is why i did ring

 

if i did ask them that makeing sure and they are commerical rated, and they said yes , and they are not am i still wrong if so i will hold my hands up and give in and forget about it

 

 

and of course that was what i did ask and what i did want to be road legal , if i was carrying other tools and towing a trailer maybe from time to time if my work van broke down

Edited June 30, 2012 by eugene123

[oddjobbob]

Eugene

 

What do you have in writing re sams post 163?

 

Is it 'not suitable' , 'not recommended' , or BOTH please?

 

If its not suitable or both then there must be another reason why you didn't win.

 

Not recommended is slightly different and I can see that Not Recommended = fit them if you like, up to you, whereas not suitable = don't fit them.

 

So what did they put to you in writing please?

[heliosuk]

Actually it is generally allowable to have two weights or series of weights fitted provided they are on opposite faces of the wheel i.e. inner and outer. It is generally accepted that these weights should not exceed 160gms.

 

One of the issues here which has come to light is that Eugene now says he asked about whether the tyres he wanted fitted were of a commercial rating. So why not ask that of the wheels at the outset if aware of the difference. The RFV values are usually tyre dependant on the assembly as a whole.

 

As I point out..........it is not illegal, it is not misselling to sell or advertise something to sell that fits the vehicle provided it has a CE mark. Whether or not it is fit for usedepends on the use intended and I would say this has never been declared in any detail. There are many parts available for sale which are CE marked but do not comply with construction and use regs such as high power light bulbs, blue bulbs, white bulbs etc.

 

It was an ill conceived case which was pointed out from the start and had no chance of succeeding whatsoever.

 

It's all well and good quoting SOGA but you have to have sufficient evidence from the start that is unquestionable, cannot be refuted and is prima farce. In many cases on here, "SOGA is your friend", "go get em", " this is how you do it" never ever takes into account the "what if it is challenged" scenario and is there any weakness.

 

SOGA is good for new items such as white goods but in the case of used cars and accessories it's a totally different ball game and is open to all manner of defences.

[sailor sam]

Eugene

 

What do you have in writing re sams post 163?

 

Is it 'not suitable' , 'not recommended' , or BOTH please?

 

If its not suitable or both then there must be another reason why you didn't win.

 

Not recommended is slightly different and I can see that Not Recommended = fit them if you like, up to you, whereas not suitable = don't fit them.

 

So what did they put to you in writing please?

 

Doh! He did 'win' though Bob... he was awarded costs. BUT this is the bit I don't understand.... why he only got £50 instead of £1600. Also, if yo go through the entire thread (and I believe I suggested you did this before), you will see that he has posted copies of emails from the manufacturer stating that the wheels were not suitable and did not recommend fitting them to Eugene's vehicle.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[eugene123]

hi bob , yes the email,s are posted on here that the wheels are not sutable , and are not recommend fitting them to my t5 , from bbs ,

 

as in writeing from performance alloys i did not have nothing only a copy of the £1400 i did pay , on receipt as posted on here also .

[oddjobbob]

Getting £50 back and still owning the alloys is hardly a win sam.. and I'm not stupid either so please refrain from 'Doh' as if I am.

 

If you think that the above counts as a win then 'Doh' will surely apply to you.

 

Technically he may have won, but he's still here asking what else he can do, so he obviuosly doesn't feel like a winner as much as you do.

 

Unless of course you would be aiming to cite this case as a 'win' for the SOGA? Which I suppose if you were being pedantic, it is.

 

Getting back to Eugene's case, there must be another reason that we don't know of why it failed.

 

I daresay the seller claimed the buyer only asked if they would 'be ok' or 'fit' his vehicle prior to purchase. Both of which are true.

 

We shall never know, we weren't there.

 

Although this demonstrates even more the weakness of the law for cases on this forum.

[eugene123]

bob and as i did ask you , about the phone call on thread 169 if i had it to prove, that they told me they were

 

van rated

check out with bbs

and that v w also comfirm this ,

 

would i still be at fault ???

 

may i say also this file was used against me to say the alloys were ok for my t5 it was plus 2 they did used, i really do not no what it means , but maybe the judge did IMG_0001.pdf

Edited July 1, 2012 by eugene123