CoffeeAngel -v- Halifax Credit Card - Claim form now issued

[coffeeangel]

Sorry to crop quote you Andy but I think that statement is actually important and is something that many people forget. Anyone who takes on a case as LIP, will have huge amount of stress placed on them and to their friends/family/loved ones.

 

As you say quite rightly too many are not capable of going through the paper work alone, further going into court. I think the 15 minutes I was in the court room shocked me in how badly i defended myself.

 

Any court case will affect the LIP, it won't affect the company nor the solicitors they can drop the case at 5pm and go home, a LIP can't as much .

 

Thanks for dropping by whymehfor, I've never had to experience it yet, but when and if my time comes, with the help and support of CAG hopefully, I will be more prepared.

 

Best,

 

Coffee:angel:

[whymehfor]

Good luck CoffeAngel

[AndyOrch]

Sorry to crop quote you Andy but I think that statement is actually important and is something that many people forget. Anyone who takes on a case as LIP, will have huge amount of stress placed on them and to their friends/family/loved ones.

 

As you say quite rightly too many are not capable of going through the paper work alone, further going into court. I think the 15 minutes I was in the court room shocked me in how badly i defended myself.

 

Any court case will affect the LIP, it won't affect the company nor the solicitors they can drop the case at 5pm and go home, a LIP can't as much .

 

 

Absolutely WMF key is preparation and question everything.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[coffeeangel]

Good luck CoffeAngel

 

Thanks whymehfor, your support is appreciated.

 

Now I'm going to heed Andy's words and try and relax a little with what is left of my evening and say hi to my old friend "procrastination".

 

Best,

 

Coffee:angel:

[coffeeangel]

Absolutely WMF key is preparation and question everything.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

To coin a phrase I read a couple of days ago and which I think really applies to the people on CAG.....

 

Elizabeth Kubler-Ross wrote:

 

"People are like stained glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light from within".

 

Darkness is fear. CAG is the illuminating light.

 

Nite all.

 

Best,

 

Coffee:angel:

[coffeeangel]

Hi, evening.

 

Well 2 days over the time frame to comply, but today I've come home to find a letter from Halifax/Collections and Recoveries Legal Section in response to my CPR request.

 

"Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Account No: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

We write with regards to your letter of XX October 2011 requesting documentation pursuant to CPR 31.14.

 

Please be advised that we are in the process of collating the documentation and shall forward to you on receipt.

 

We confirm that we are willing to grant an extension of time for you to file the Defence 14 days after receipt of the documentation.

 

We trust that this is acceptable.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I am about to file my AoS tonight. It's been on my mind all day as to what to do but now having received their response, I am going to defend as I really do believe this claim was brought vexatiously as because of my SAR request and also the way in which they have handled my CPR request. In my CPR letter it clearly states:

 

"If you require more time in which to comply with this request, you must tell me in writing. You must tell me "before" the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time, you must tell me what steps you have taken, and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also "state a date" by when you will comply with this request."

 

but in their response here is NO DATE just "we are in the process of collating the documentation and shall forward to you on receipt". So when will that be then? What also riles me is that their letter was dated ON the 7th day for compliance and was sent by SECOND CLASS POST so clearly they have breached that one and don't appear to have any kind of urgency in the matter. If you bring a claim against someone, then shouldn't the documentation you are relying on be in that person's file already!??

 

They just thought old Coffee would see the claim form, ignore it and get judgment by default! As I said previously, they have done this deliberately to head me off at the pass with reclaiming charges etc.

 

No I am going to defend but need some clarification on next steps. Once I have ticked I am defending, will the case be automatically transferred to my local county court or do I have to contest jurisdiction? If I'm wrong please correct me, but my understanding is that you can only contest jurisdiction if you are outside of the UK or is that wrong??

 

Secondly, what do I put in the bit about a defence as I am still waiting for the compliance of my CPR request?

 

Thoughts/advice?

 

Best,

 

Coffee

[AndyOrch]

You just AoS for now and submit your plea.You will enter a defence when all the above nonsense is resolved.Don't tick jurisdiction.

Then you need to clarify the extension, normally 28 days.Inform Northampton by letter or email (safer) and attach a copy of the above.I appreciate its a bit mystic but it will suffice they have agreed.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[coffeeangel]

Hi Andy,

 

Thanks very much. I have literally just submitted it! I was wavering a bit on the "jurisdiction" issue and I just wanted this sick feeling in my stomach to go away, so I popped back on here, did a search and read a few threads where others have asked that question and I also found a copy of Form EX306 which explains to a claimant what happens if a Defendant defends all the claim and that they would be sent a Form N271 with a copy of the defence transferring the case if:

 

their claim is for a specific amount; and

the defendant is an individual who resides or carries on business in another court's area.

 

I needed that confirmation from you or another experienced Cagger - I feel so much better now so thank you.

 

As for the defence, I will do as you suggest and get onto the court first thing in the morning, see what they say and also get a letter off by email to them attaching a copy of CPR response letter showing they agree to an extension.

 

Best,

 

Coffee

[coffeeangel]

Morning,

 

Just a little update - Mr Postie brought me a "little" package from Halifax Card services today which just says:

 

Dear Miss Coffee,

 

I refer to your recent communication and enclose a copy of your statements.

 

I hope this meets your requirements.

 

Yours sincerely"

 

Now then enclosed with this letter are 5 sheets of paper which comprise my account statement for May to Sept 2011. Is this a joke? Is that (a) supposed to be a response to my SAR and/or (b) a response to my CPR request?

 

Thoughs/advice?

 

Best,

 

Coffee

[whymehfor]

Presumblly u've had the account longer than may 2011. I would write back to them and state that they have not replied properly to your reuqest. I believe there are templates in the library, or one of the more experince cagers will bounce over.

 

As for that sick type feeling, I've had that several times, including lots of stress. Sadly it played around with my diabetes

[AndyOrch]

Requesting a DSAR once litigation as commenced can be fraught.It may be the case that they have issued a claim and you do not have all the information that is yours as of right in order to get a fair hearing. This violates the overriding objective of the Civil Procedure Rules, which are essentially about placing the parties on as equal a footing as possible. Where you lack the requisite information to conduct your defence properly, and they have not complied with a previously issued Subject Access Request, this may be sufficient to get the claim set aside. Where they issue claim and you have not issued a Subject Access Request, you should do so immediately (also citing CPR 31.6 which they will try to wriggle out of) and apply to the court for an adjournment, pending their full compliance with your Subject Access Request. That will buy you some breathing space to organise yourself.

 

This is substantially the same as the SAR issued prior to litigation. Once in litigation you can amend it to include details of the claim:

YOUR ADDRESS

THE DATE

THE DATA CONTROLLER(S)

 

 

Dear Sirs,

In respect of the following claim:

Claimant

V

YOUR NAME

CLAIM NUMBER: XXXXXXX

IN THE XXXXX COUNTY COURT

 

Then use the same letter, here…

 

 

Your final paragraph should then read something along the lines of (but feel free to customise to your own circumstances):

As you have issued a claim for XXXXXXXXX I hereby advise you of the following. I will vigorously defend this claim and will argue that your claim is falsely premised and vexatiously sought. It is falsely premised because your particulars of claim inaccurately and erroneously state the arrears amount. The arrears consist of charges and interest upon charges which cannot be stated as arrears. It is vexatiously sought as it is not a measure of last resort as required by the Civil Justice Council’s pre-action protocol of October 2008. Further I will draw to the court’s attention to the necessity of submitting an embarrassed defence if you do not comply in full and within a time scale that allows myself the opportunity and right to conduct my defence in the light of all relevant information. Under these circumstances an adjournment will be requested in order to allow for you to observe your duties under law and comply with this subject access request.

You are also reminded of the Civil Procedure Rules. 31.6 provides that:

Standard disclosure requires a party to disclose only -

(a)the documents on which he relies; and

(b)the documents which –

(i)adversely affect his own case;

(ii)adversely affect another party’s case; or

(iii)support another party’s case; and

©the documents which he is required to disclose by a relevant practice direction.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Undercover-Elsa]

Wow Andy, that's a keeper!

 

Duly copied and pasted!!

 

[citizenB]

It certainly is

[coffeeangel]

Requesting a DSAR once litigation as commenced can be fraught.It may be the case that they have issued a claim and you do not have all the information that is yours as of right in order to get a fair hearing. This violates the overriding objective of the Civil Procedure Rules, which are essentially about placing the parties on as equal a footing as possible. Where you lack the requisite information to conduct your defence properly, and they have not complied with a previously issued Subject Access Request, this may be sufficient to get the claim set aside. Where they issue claim and you have not issued a Subject Access Request, you should do so immediately (also citing CPR 31.6 which they will try to wriggle out of) and apply to the court for an adjournment, pending their full compliance with your Subject Access Request. That will buy you some breathing space to organise yourself.

 

 

This is substantially the same as the SAR issued prior to litigation. Once in litigation you can amend it to include details of the claim:

YOUR ADDRESS

THE DATE

THE DATA CONTROLLER(S)

 

 

Dear Sirs,

In respect of the following claim:

Claimant

V

YOUR NAME

CLAIM NUMBER: XXXXXXX

IN THE XXXXX COUNTY COURT

 

Then use the same letter, here…

 

 

Your final paragraph should then read something along the lines of (but feel free to customise to your own circumstances):

As you have issued a claim for XXXXXXXXX I hereby advise you of the following. I will vigorously defend this claim and will argue that your claim is falsely premised and vexatiously sought. It is falsely premised because your particulars of claim inaccurately and erroneously state the arrears amount. The arrears consist of charges and interest upon charges which cannot be stated as arrears. It is vexatiously sought as it is not a measure of last resort as required by the Civil Justice Council’s pre-action protocol of October 2008. Further I will draw to the court’s attention to the necessity of submitting an embarrassed defence if you do not comply in full and within a time scale that allows myself the opportunity and right to conduct my defence in the light of all relevant information. Under these circumstances an adjournment will be requested in order to allow for you to observe your duties under law and comply with this subject access request.

You are also reminded of the Civil Procedure Rules. 31.6 provides that:

Standard disclosure requires a party to disclose only -

(a)the documents on which he relies; and

(b)the documents which –

(i)adversely affect his own case;

(ii)adversely affect another party’s case; or

(iii)support another party’s case; and

©the documents which he is required to disclose by a relevant practice direction.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Hi Andy,Firstly, apologies for the lateness in replying - I don't seem to have received an email notification that my thread had been updated and I have been taking your advice i.e. not letting this consume me and have been spending quality time with my family and children and so even though it may show I am logged in, I haven't been on here for a couple of days, but a very big thank you for taking time out of your weekend to reply. I am totes loving what you are saying but am still a bit confused (these days it doesn't take much, sorry!) So if I understand, basically you are saying I should just re-jig my SAR letter and add in what you have written for the final paragraph - correct? Work has gone crazy today, and as such I won't be able to get anything out today, but I will be back on line later so you can have a look at what I am able to pull together.Thanks again everyone, I really appreciate it!Best,Coffee:angel:

[coffeeangel]

Presumblly u've had the account longer than may 2011. I would write back to them and state that they have not replied properly to your reuqest. I believe there are templates in the library, or one of the more experince cagers will bounce over.

 

As for that sick type feeling, I've had that several times, including lots of stress. Sadly it played around with my diabetes

 

Hi WMF,Exactly... think they are trying to mess with old Coffee's mojo again :mad2:Stress can do that do to you WMF. I should know! Anyway, onwards and upwards! Just need to get my head around how to word the letter that Andy has suggested as I am wondering (and ever so slightly confused) as to whether I shouldn't be just referring to my SAR and CPR 31.14 request and the responses I have received (to include the farscial attempt at compliance - yet right, as are correct, my statements go way back beyond May 2011) and then hit them with the final paragraph wonderfully drafted by Andy at the end. :???:Will try and get on here again a bit later tonight, but have to morph from my day job role into a "hairdresser" tonight for both my girls! No sense in complaining.... as they keep telling me, "its part of the job description!".:roll:Best,Coffee:angel:

[coffeeangel]

Hey, didn't get a chance to drop by yesterday. I have done a letter to go to the Data Controller incorporating what Andy said above, and would be grateful to receive thoughts/advice.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

FAO: THE DATA CONTROLLER(S)

 

Bank of Scotland plc

The Mound

Edinburgh

EH1 1YZ

 

* October 2011

 

VIA SPECIAL DELIVERY

 

Dear Sirs,

 

In respect of the following claim issued by you on XXXXXXXXX:

 

BANK OF SCOTLAND PLC - V - COFFEEANGEL

CLAIM NUMBER: XXXXXXXX

IN THE NORTHAMPTON (CCBC) COUNTY COURT

 

I write further to my SAR request to you sent by Recorded Delivery dated 28th September 2011. Please now supply me with copies of all the data which you hold on me in relation to any matter and in any form and for any period of time. Please note that I require disclosure of any personal data which you hold on me for the entire period of my dealings with you. The Subject Access is not limited to my transaction history and it is not limited merely to 6 years of historical information.

 

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you. If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

 

Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties or charges specifically in relation to account number XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX, the subject of your claim, which are invalid under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations against me, then I shall be reclaiming them together with any interest charges which you have levied on them. As it is your wrongdoing and mishandling of my account which has created the necessity for this subject access request, I shall also be reclaiming the subject access request fee of £10, being the statutory maximum which I have already furnished you with

As you have issued a claim for £XXXXX, I hereby advise you of the following.

 

I will vigorously defend this claim and will argue that your claim is falsely premised and vexatiously sought. It is falsely premised because your particulars of claim inaccurately and erroneously state the arrears amount. The arrears consist of charges and interest upon charges which cannot be stated as arrears. It is vexatiously sought as it is not a measure of last resort as required by the Civil Justice Council’s pre-action protocol of October 2008.

 

Further I will draw to the court’s attention to the necessity of submitting an embarrassed defence if you do not comply in full and within a time scale that allows myself the opportunity and right to conduct my defence in the light of all relevant information. Under these circumstances an adjournment will be requested in order to allow for you to observe your duties under law and comply with this subject access request.

 

You are also reminded of the Civil Procedure Rules 31.6 which provides that:

 

Standard disclosure requires a party to disclose only -

 

(a) the documents on which he relies; and

(b) the documents which:

(i) adversely affect his own case;

(ii) adversely affect another party’s case; or

(iii) support another party’s case; and

 

© the documents which he is required to disclose by a relevant practice direction.

 

You have 13 days left wiithin which to comply.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

CoffeeAngel

 

Cc Collections and Recoveries

Admail 868

Newcastle Upon Tyne

NE99 3BS

 

Litigation Department

Bank of Scotland plc

The Mound

Edinburgh

EH1 1YZ

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Further thoughts/advice

 

Best,

 

Coffee:angel:

[coffeeangel]

Hey, didn't get a chance to drop by yesterday. I have done a letter to go to the Data Controller incorporating what Andy said above, and would be grateful to receive thoughts/advice.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

FAO: THE DATA CONTROLLER(S)

 

Bank of Scotland plc

The Mound

Edinburgh

EH1 1YZ

 

* October 2011

 

VIA SPECIAL DELIVERY

 

Dear Sirs,

 

In respect of the following claim issued by you on XXXXXXXXX:

 

BANK OF SCOTLAND PLC - V - COFFEEANGEL

CLAIM NUMBER: XXXXXXXX

IN THE NORTHAMPTON (CCBC) COUNTY COURT

 

I write further to my SAR request to you sent by Recorded Delivery dated 28th September 2011. Please now supply me with copies of all the data which you hold on me in relation to any matter and in any form and for any period of time. Please note that I require disclosure of any personal data which you hold on me for the entire period of my dealings with you. The Subject Access is not limited to my transaction history and it is not limited merely to 6 years of historical information.

 

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you. If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

 

Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties or charges specifically in relation to account number XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX, the subject of your claim, which are invalid under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations against me, then I shall be reclaiming them together with any interest charges which you have levied on them. As it is your wrongdoing and mishandling of my account which has created the necessity for this subject access request, I shall also be reclaiming the subject access request fee of £10, being the statutory maximum which I have already furnished you with

As you have issued a claim for £XXXXX, I hereby advise you of the following.

 

I will vigorously defend this claim and will argue that your claim is falsely premised and vexatiously sought. It is falsely premised because your particulars of claim inaccurately and erroneously state the arrears amount. The arrears consist of charges and interest upon charges which cannot be stated as arrears. It is vexatiously sought as it is not a measure of last resort as required by the Civil Justice Council’s pre-action protocol of October 2008.

 

Further I will draw to the court’s attention to the necessity of submitting an embarrassed defence if you do not comply in full and within a time scale that allows myself the opportunity and right to conduct my defence in the light of all relevant information. Under these circumstances an adjournment will be requested in order to allow for you to observe your duties under law and comply with this subject access request.

 

You are also reminded of the Civil Procedure Rules 31.6 which provides that:

 

Standard disclosure requires a party to disclose only -

 

(a) the documents on which he relies; and

(b) the documents which:

(i) adversely affect his own case;

(ii) adversely affect another party’s case; or

(iii) support another party’s case; and

 

© the documents which he is required to disclose by a relevant practice direction.

 

You have 13 days left wiithin which to comply.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

CoffeeAngel

 

Cc Collections and Recoveries

Admail 868

Newcastle Upon Tyne

NE99 3BS

 

Litigation Department

Bank of Scotland plc

The Mound

Edinburgh

EH1 1YZ

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Further thoughts/advice

 

Best,

 

Coffee:angel:

 

Ok, unless anyone has any other thoughts/advice, I shall be sending this out today.

 

Best,

 

Coffee:angel:

[AndyOrch]

Excellent Coffee just one minor change the Faithfully to Sincerely.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[coffeeangel]

Excellent Coffee just one minor change the Faithfully to Sincerely.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Thanks Andy! Corection made and am in post office waiting in line to post Special Delivery!

 

Best,

 

Coffee:angel:

[coffeeangel]

All done - posted out Special Delivery this time as tracking Recorded Delivery post these days is a nightmare! I don't mind if there isn't any real great sense of urgency, but with this lot, I'm not taking any chances!

 

Now then lads and lasses, Coffee has been having a bit of think. It's been 18 days since I sent my CPR 31.14 request and 9 days since they responded as in post 56 above. I emailed and faxed off a copy of their letter to the Court but as yet all I have had is the automated response acknowledging receipt of the email and advising it would be responded within 5 days. But as Andy said, I need to clarify the extension as they have not given me a date by which they will comply and I only have 9 days left within which to file a defence.

 

Should I now be looking to send a letter them utilising CPR 15.5? OR should I be looking to file a N244?

 

Thoughts?

 

Best,

 

Coffee:angel:

[citizenB]

As a non response to your CPR31.14 could been seen as a matter of urgency now, I would suggest that you telephone them on Monday and request the extension via CPR15.5. If they agree, then they MUST send you a letter which you can then pass on to the court as it is your responsibility to inform them of any extension.

 

If they disagree, then confirm that you will be submitting a N244 application

 

If they agree, you require an extension of 28 days. They are to provide you with the information you requested within 14 days and then you have a further 14 days to review this info and to submit a defence.

 

If you are forced to make an application to the court to force them to comply then the court can give whatever extension it likes I think.

 

Which ever way it goes, I suggest you confim to the solicitors immediately the out come of the call so that you have a record of actually doing it and their response.

 

You can use the letter below suitably amended, if you wish.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]31104[/ATTACH]

[coffeeangel]

As a non response to your CPR31.14 could been seen as a matter of urgency now, I would suggest that you telephone them on Monday and request the extension via CPR15.5. If they agree, then they MUST send you a letter which you can then pass on to the court as it is your responsibility to inform them of any extension.

 

If they disagree, then confirm that you will be submitting a N244 application

 

If they agree, you require an extension of 28 days. They are to provide you with the information you requested within 14 days and then you have a further 14 days to review this info and to submit a defence.

 

If you are forced to make an application to the court to force them to comply then the court can give whatever extension it likes I think.

 

Which ever way it goes, I suggest you confim to the solicitors immediately the out come of the call so that you have a record of actually doing it and their response.

 

You can use the letter below suitably amended, if you wish.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]31104[/ATTACH]

 

Thanks CB. I didn't get the opportunity to call the solicitors today but I will do so first thing tomorrow morning. In the meantime I will get the attached drafted up tonight ready to go.

 

Hope you had a good weekend.

 

Best,

 

Coffee:angel:

[coffeeangel]

Ok so having telephoned C&R, I was told they would grant me another 21 days + another 14 days from extension and they would notify the court. I asked for them to confirm in writing by email but was told they don't use email so I told them I need within 48 hrs as it was my responsibility and not theirs to inform the court and was told they can do it too but I was adamant and asked them to send by RD and was told no they wouldn't do that. Then I was asked if I had access to a fax machine and they would send it to me by end of day. Well I do have access to a fax, but at work and so I said it wasn't secure i.e meaning all and sundry would know my business and so I need a time and was then told they would send it by 12pm.

 

So now to play the waiting game. Will update when I have it.

 

Best,

 

Coffee:angel:

[coffeeangel]

Ok so they have supplied written confirmation and I have faxed and emailed a copy over to the court. Funny that as I received confirmation from the court about the first non-committal letter of extension today!

 

Anyhoos they now have until 21 November to supply me the docs requested in CPR 31.14 letter. So playing the waiting game on that score again.

 

In other news my further SARs letter was delivered yesterday (although no proof of signature available to view just yet) so now they have 7 days within which to comply then I will know what I'm dealing with. But given the time has now been further extended, I seriously doubt they will - they will string this out as I stand by my original assertion that they brought this claim vexatiously in the hopes that I would just roll over and they would get judgement by default.

 

Best,

 

Coffee:angel:

[coffeeangel]

Morning everyone,

 

Still nothing from Halicrap/BoS in relation to the SAR despite me sending the letter as excellently suggested by Andy above. Now do I

 

(a) send lba giving another 7 days; or

 

(b) cut to the chase and get a court order compelling them to comply with the SAR?

 

I am inclined to go with option (b) but thoughts/advice appreciated.

 

Best,

 

Coffee:angel: