DVLA, MOT and TAX expire but car not in the country

[Myfamily]

Dear all.

 

I hope someone can help me here. My cars MOT and TAX expires on 31 August but the car is out of the country. I didn't realise that these were due till i got the reminder for the tax last week and the car was already gone by then, it was driven to france by my mother who has borrowed it for the trip (she is insured etc so no problem there).

 

I got the reminder and tried to tax it online as I knew there was a 5 days grace period from the dvla as long as the disc is purchased before the last one expires. But when online it told me that i could not tax it because the MOT is not valid!! The car will not be back here until 2 September and I will of course go straight to the MOT garage and post office but where do i stand with my mother driving it from Dover to london.

 

Please help, I don't want to get into trouble or a huge fine!! Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

Thanks

[martin2006]

your mother will not be able to drive it once the mot has expired and think that includes in france aswell. however if the mot is valid until 31 august, you can tax it at the post office

[Myfamily]

Hi Martin,

 

I have no way of contacting her while she's in France (she's camping!) I'm worried that she will get stopped by police somewhere and she would go crazy at me, I honesty didn't know!

 

I suppose if I get it taxed then it's not too bad is it? I'm just really panicking about it now. If it's taxed with no MOT and it gets stopped what would happen?

 

Thanks for your help.

[martin2006]

if you have all the relevant paperwork to re-tax then thats one less thing to worry about. How old is the car? is this its first need for an mot?

Your mother wouldnt necessarily need to be stopped by the police, they tell whether a car is taxed, mot'd and insured via the ANPR system in many police vehicles.

[Myfamily]

I have the V5 insurance docs and the MOT that does not run out till 31 August 2011 but will the post office see that I'm trying to buy a tax disc with and MOT that expires the day before and then can they say No?

 

Do you think it would be best to ring the DVLA and explain this? Is there anyway they can make a note that I'm taxing for 01 Sept and get the MOT done as soon as I get the car back on 2nd?

 

My car is a 54 plate, it's always passed the MOT and never had a problem with it.

[patdavies]

She must thave a pre-booked Mot test arranged for the day that she returns, else she won't be able to drive from Dover. She must go from the port to the MoT test centre.

 

Technically, she will be breaking the law in France, but they are unlikely to detect it (if they even bother)

[Myfamily]

Hi Pat,

 

I have no way of contacting her so if I book the MOT which is round the corner from me and I live in Kent (so in between Dover and London) so if she brings it to me and I take it there straight away, woudl that be ok?

[martin2006]

you can tax it now, you dont have to wait till 31 aug, and as pat said, book your mot in aswell, if you have an appt for an mot i think you can drive it there as long as the rest of yr docs and tax is in order

[Gick]

Dear Myfamily,

 

I am sorry to have to disagree with Martin2006, I do not believe that the Post Office, if the staff are doing their job properly, will issue a licence to commence on 1st September, using an Mot certificate expiring on 31st August. However, you can drive the vehicle to a pre-booked Mot appointment without the vehicle being taxed provided that it is insured which you state it is.

 

The fact that you live not too far from the port of Dover works in your favour, as if stopped driving from Dover to a pre-booked appointment in Inverness could be looked upon as not being the prime motive for the jouney, an argument that would need to be resolved in court!

 

I know that it may appear extreme, but if you know the ferry service that your mother is booked on, a call to them to check that she has boarded and perhaps you could meet her and drive the vehicle to the Mot station yourself? As I have said, this may appear to some as an extreme course to take, but you do appear to be concerned for your mother (quite rightly) and the inconvenience would be rewarded by peace of mind and possibly 'brownie points'.

 

Regards

Edited August 25, 2011 by Gick
words missing

[Myfamily]

Thanks Martin and Gick for your replies, doesn't sound too promising!! Do you think it would be worth me ringing the DVLA and explaining the situation and prehaps they can make a note, at least I would have told them in advance of the problem or do you think they would take the opportunity to fine me straight away!!??

 

I'm afraid I have no idea which ferry she's on or anything I just know that they're back on 2nd, I know it's useless of me, and she already thinks I'm disorganised!!

[Tony P]

MOT. Book this for the end of the day she will be back.

Using a test centre beyond your/her home from the port would ensure the car is only being used between the two it it is spotted.

The only real difficulty being your Mother would not know she is OK, if stopped - it would have to be demonstrated later.

A valid test is only required if the car is to be used on public roads in UK. The French should not be interested in this.

 

Road Fund Licence. This is not legally required while the car is outside UK so, again, the French have no interest in this.

 

"I have the V5 insurance docs and the MOT". These should have been with your Mother, with the car. The French would be very interested if she cannot show valid Insurance and right to be using the vehicle.

Edited August 25, 2011 by Tony P
spelling!

[Myfamily]

OMG Tony, you're right!!! I completely forgot, even when I wrote it in my last post, it didn't come to me. I did gave her the V5, and Cert of Motor Insurance, the only thing I didn't give her was the MOT cert.

 

So I've got nothing, I can't even Tax it, I tried to do it online, the insurance part was fine but it knows that the MOT will have expired on the 1st - HELP!!!!

[sailor sam]

The DVLA's take on this would be that you should of ensured that the car was all legal to complete the journey, so I would'nt inform them if I were you. Also, don't you have to have a 'green card' (insurance cover outside the UK) to drive abroad these days? As Gick says, I doubt very much that you will be able to tax the car from 1st September when the MOT expires on the 31st August and when the MOT expires, this may invalidate your insurance cover.

 

I think you main problem will be re-entering the country after the tax/MOT has expired BUT there is a slight chance that this will go un-challanged being as it will only be a couple of days out. I'm not sure how you are going to sort this out at this stage. If it were me, I would be waiting at Dover for your mother to arrive and fill her in via mobile phone (if you can).

[Tony P]

Also, don't you have to have a 'green card' (insurance cover outside the UK) to drive abroad these days?

No. Green Cards are no longer issued by UK insurers for journeys in EU. Policies automatically include minimum cover (and confirm this on the reverse of the Certificates of Insurance). Increasing level of cover from legal minimum is of no concern to police - so no Green Card proof.

 

 

 

and when the MOT expires, this may invalidate your insurance cover.

Not automatically.

Insurers could decline a claim if it resulted from a mechanical fault that would have been aparent and prevented the issue of a MOT certificate when it was due.

"May", as you say.

 

I think you main problem will be re-entering the country after the tax/MOT has expired BUT there is a slight chance that this will go un-challanged being as it will only be a couple of days out .

Not a problem as long as there is a pre-booked test. I have just done this.

After an (unexpected) delay, I drove back to UK last month with an MOT that was nearly 3 months out of date. Having hit an elk while in Russia, I needed to fit a replacement bumper, number plate, etc before the test. These were waiting for me in north London. I had already pre-booked an MOT for later in the day I came through the Tunnel thus allowing me to fit the parts en-route to the centre that was just beyond where I fitted them.

No doubt Kent Police had ANPR devices at the Channel Tunnel terminal as well as on the way; I was also passed by several Met police cars while crossing London, but I was not stopped. I don't know if pre-booked appointments are linked to the computor database that ANPR uses.

 

This journey was all completely within the Law as far as MOT (a paper number plate in the windscreen was perhaps not!).

You can legally make journeys to and from a test centre without MOT and Road Fund Licence, provided the test is pre-booked.

Edited August 25, 2011 by Tony P

[Myfamily]

Thanks Sailor Sam and Tony for all your advise, I am still worried about it but if Tony managed to go three months and not get into trouble then I have a bit of hope for only being 2 days late.

 

I am going to phone the DVLA and just ask them as a general question whether it's o.k. still and I am going to book a test for 2nd and 3rd! I am unsure exactly what time she will be back in the country but a friend is with her and she may send a text at some point and I may be able to find out. It was a geniuine error, I would never let her drive my car if I thought that this was going to happen, I only realised when I got the reminder but she had already left by then - never again!!

 

Wish me luck and I will let you know how it goes. Thanks

[Tony P]

Personally I would not ring DVLA over this - and certainly not admit an error to them. This whole forum is founded on their unreasonableness and shows their true colours as public servants (sic)!

 

Accepting what we say that she may use the car between the port and Test Centre, I would just book the last appointment of the 2nd and the same for the 3rd - explaining to the test centre why you are making 2 appointments.

As long as she is driving between the two locations she is completely legal even if she doesn't know it.

But then again, she doesn't even know there was a potential problem in the first place!

[Myfamily]

Hi Tony,

 

I wasn't going to give them any details but just ask a general question, but if you think it's a bad idea then I won't.

 

I'm just worried that when I go to buy my tax after having the MOT 2 or 3 days later than I shoud be, won't they fine me straight away as it will be obvious that there were 2 or 3 days where I was un-taxed? hope that makes sense - or am I just worrying too much?!

[Tony P]

I'm just worried that when I go to buy my tax after having the MOT 2 or 3 days later than I shoud be, won't they fine me straight away as it will be obvious that there were 2 or 3 days where I was un-taxed? hope that makes sense - or am I just worrying too much?!

 

Worry less !

As the car 'tax' runs out at the end of August, if it is 'taxed' (or SORNed) during September it is automatically be from 1st September so there will be no revenue loss - so no fine.

 

The only fine potential would be -

-using the car on a UK public road without having current MOT and 'tax' - OTHER THAN going too and from a pre-booked test at a Test Centre or, after failing, going elsewhere for rectification/repair.

-failing to display a valid disc OTHER than in the above circumstances.

[Gick]

Myfamily,

 

You will be able to tax it from the 1st ie., it will be back dated to then, once you have obtained the Mot pass, so no revenue has been avoided. It would be impractical to declare it Sorn'd for those 2-3 days and any enforcement action by DVLA regarding failure to renew a vehicle's licence is delayed for a period to allow for the time that such alternative paperwork would take to arrive. Once they have been paid for the licence I am sure that their interest will cease.

 

This does not of course mean that you can wait until next pay day to renew.

 

Just bear in mind that 3rd September is a Saturday when anticipating the last appointment of the day at the Mot station.

 

Regards

[Myfamily]

Thanks Guys,

 

I can't tell you how much better your wise words have made me feel!!!

 

This will be the first time that I can't wait to go and pay for an MOT (fingers crossed that nothing needs fixing!!!) and Road Tax, people will think I'm mad!! I just want it done and out of the way, I wish I could wait till next payday as this will leave me very short but it's not worth it, will have to live on bread and water till then!!

 

Oh and thanks for mentioning that the 3rd is a Saturday, considering how dizzy I am at the moment I probably would have got that wrong too!

 

Thanks again so much.

[Myfamily]

Hi Guys,

 

An update for you. Well my mum arrived on 2 September but I could not book the MOT till 5 Sept so spent the weekend panicking and not driving the car, had to leave it on the driveway and hope no-one saw it. or cam and clamped it.

 

So then had another issue, I had the MOT booked with qwik fit on 5 Sept took it to them and they did the MOT and said it failed because the front barks pads were less than 1.5mm, asked them how much to fix, they said they would have to check the brakes and dics but if it's just pads it would be £89 but if it's dsics too it would be £395.

 

He could not check it till later that day took it home and brought back later, he checked them and gave me the bad news that it was pads and discs needed, £395 was too much for me to handle and I shamfully burst into tears at which point he offered it for £320!! Still I just could not do it, I still would have £143 road tax to pay (for 6 months) I just could not afford it.

 

So took the car home with the idea that I would have to declare SORN untill I could afford repairs, on the way back I passed a local garage that I did not realise did MOT's and stopped and asked them what they thought of the brake pads and discs, they could not believe it had failed and said the discs were fine, they changed the pads and re-did the MOT which it then passed. The new repair was only £110!!

 

What amazes me now is that qwik fit gave a list of 7 advisory notes and the local garage gave only 2 that were the same as qwik fit, surely there should be no difference in this?? And I think Qwik fit saw a woman that they thought they could con a bit of extra money out of, surely offering £75 is and indication of this? If a repaird costs £395 then that's what it costs!

 

I don't know, I just feel really annoyed with qwik fit right now!

[2ltr16valve]

Hi Guys,

 

An update for you. Well my mum arrived on 2 September but I could not book the MOT till 5 Sept so spent the weekend panicking and not driving the car, had to leave it on the driveway and hope no-one saw it. or cam and clamped it.

 

So then had another issue, I had the MOT booked with qwik fit on 5 Sept took it to them and they did the MOT and said it failed because the front barks pads were less than 1.5mm, asked them how much to fix, they said they would have to check the brakes and dics but if it's just pads it would be £89 but if it's dsics too it would be £395.

 

He could not check it till later that day took it home and brought back later, he checked them and gave me the bad news that it was pads and discs needed, £395 was too much for me to handle and I shamfully burst into tears at which point he offered it for £320!! Still I just could not do it, I still would have £143 road tax to pay (for 6 months) I just could not afford it.

 

So took the car home with the idea that I would have to declare SORN untill I could afford repairs, on the way back I passed a local garage that I did not realise did MOT's and stopped and asked them what they thought of the brake pads and discs, they could not believe it had failed and said the discs were fine, they changed the pads and re-did the MOT which it then passed. The new repair was only £110!!

 

What amazes me now is that qwik fit gave a list of 7 advisory notes and the local garage gave only 2 that were the same as qwik fit, surely there should be no difference in this?? And I think Qwik fit saw a woman that they thought they could con a bit of extra money out of, surely offering £75 is and indication of this? If a repaird costs £395 then that's what it costs!

 

I don't know, I just feel really annoyed with qwik fit right now!

 

 

Thats about right for kwik fit they seem to do this too often, trying to make work when its not needed !! I would complain to their head office.

[Myfamily]

MMmm, do you really think so?

 

I was a bit wary of this, I'm not a mechanic but it made no sense, they were telling me that my discs were at 21m and 20mm and the minimum was 22mm I would have thought I would have heard squeaky brakes if I was wearing on the discs?

[Gick]

Dear Myfamily,

 

I am glad that you have now got the vehicle sorted. I hope you did not get too big a telling off from your Mum for letting her go abroad in a vehicle with bad brakes! Just kidding, you would most likely not be aware of the low pad material through normal use, it would only manifest itself during prolonged braking when the discs and pads heated up quicker than the air flow could cool them.

 

Assuming that you have now taxed the vehicle you are close to being in the clear. As there was a break between the vehicle arriving back in the UK and your being able to Mot & tax it, there is a theoretical chance that it may have been seen by an ANPR camera and the lack of Tax & Mot noted, but the risk is low.

 

During the Mot, provided that the brake efficiency and balance was above a set percentage and very serious scoring or corrossion was not observed, the remaining thickness of the pad material would constitute an advisory note only. I do not see how Kwikfit were able to determine this material to be less than 1.5 mm in situ, unless they took a series of measurements and a fair number of calculations, as during the test no dismantling is permitted and with most vehicle the pads are hidden by the caliper. I suspect that this was just a figure that they use to frighten the uninitiated.

 

As far as the disc thickness is concerned, manufacturers provide minimum figures which differ model to model so without knowing which yours is, the figure of 22mm is meaningless. I have yet to see one of their 'fitters' use a micrometer properly. If the discs were as bad as they implied, the ridge on the outer edge would have been greater than the 1.5 mm pad material quoted and you would have had a loud scraping sound when you applied the brakes.

 

I think Qwik fit saw a woman that they thought they could con a bit of extra money out of I think you have hit the nail on the head.

 

Quite a lot of an Mot is subjective, each individual has to be satisfied in his own mind that what he/she is looking at complies with the regulations. Unfortunately those associated with fast turn around outlets may have an incentive to be 'extra careful'. I do not think that any good would come out of complaining to Kwikfit headquarters, as they will view their employer as having their interest/profit at heart.

 

I would suggest that you drive the car as though it were brand new, or you were taking your driving test, in order for the new pads to 'bed in' to the less than perfectly flat discs. As far as possible avoid harsh braking by anticipating the traffic situation and use the gears to also slow you down wherever possible. This way the efficiency will increase over the next 200 miles or so and the pads will last longer.

 

One up for the independant local garage.

 

Regards

[silverfox1961]

Hi

If this happened to me I would just contact VoSA and report this garage. They are supposed to have high standards

http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/contactus/contactus.htm