Faulty settee from Harveys - what are our rights?

[Kookie444]

Hi - advice needed here as not sure of our rights. Ordered 3 seater leather settee from Harveys beginning of May and waiting a good 12 weeks for delivery (as made to order). We specifically chose one with an electric recliner on either end, so quite an expensive settee. Was delivered on Saturday 31 July and all seemed well. However, on the Monday, the right-hand side recliner did not work. We immediately rang up and Harvey's advised that an engineer would come out to sort it out. The engineer came on the Wednesday (3 August) and said we had been extremely unlucky as the transformer had broken and we would need a replacement part and he said it was very unusual for this to happen.

 

Needless to say, we were very disappointed and cross, and found it unbelieveable that a brand new settee could develop this fault so quickly after delivery. When we rang their customer services, we were told we would have to wait at least 6 weeks for the replacement part as the factories abroad were closed for a couple of weeks and then the part had to be shipped over! We said we found this totally unacceptable and wanted them to take the settee away and give us a full refund. The call ended there.

 

On the Friday (5 August) their customer services rang us up to say that dispite all efforts, they did not have this part in their warehouse in this country, so we would definitely have to wait the 6+ weeks for it to be delivered. After the settee had been repaired to our satisfaction, they would look at some sort of compensation. The lady also said that Harveys were within their rights to repair the settee before considering any sort of refund.

 

We are extremely frustrated at this (surely they should keep plenty of stocks of parts in their warehouse, especially if they know the factories abroad would be closing for two weeks) and just want to know our rights; the recliner element was the main reason for chosing this particular settee; we also feel the settee does not feel "as comfy" as it should and the middle seat is much more firmer than the outside two seats? Are we entitled to demand a refund? We did ask our credit card company and they said we had to give them the chance to repair the settee before they could open a dispute.

 

Your advice would be greatly appreciated.

[rebel11]

Hi lis

 

Have a read of 10,12 and 13 in my signature.

 

They've had the opportunity to fix the product, but the part isn't in the country. If they fix it and it goes again will they have the part in the country?

 

Tell your credit card company that the part isn't in the country and thats totally unacceptable. Ask to do a Chargeback.

 

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/sale-of-goods/your-rights-when-paying-by-credit-card/chargeback-on-credit-and-debit-cards

[perplexity]

Are we entitled to demand a refund?

 

 

Remind the lady that when a repair or replacement is impossible "within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to the buyer", the right exists to rescind the contract.

 

[SOGA s.48C]

Edited August 7, 2011 by perplexity
typing error

[Loadedok]

Hi Lis

Not fit the purpose for purpose.

Reject it now while you still have the chance.

[Kookie444]

Thanks for your quick reply but not sure how to read 10, 12 & 13 in your signature? What does this mean? Anyway, I will take your advice and contact our credit card company again and see if they will do a chargeback if you think that will alter their stance?

[Kookie444]

oh, and Loadedok, thanks for your advice too, but what specific action should we take to reject the settee as Harveys have already said we cannot do this?

[Kookie444]

I have just read about the Sale of Goods Act as you suggest and looked at Harvey's t&cs which seem to imply we are eligible for a refund, I quote:

 

"17. Cancelling your order AFTER 7 days of placing your order

 

Made to Order Products

Made to order products, have been produced specifically for you, therefore no refunds or exchanges can be made after 7 days of placing your order unless there is an error on our part regarding the product specification, or the item is found to be faulty.

 

For products ordered over the Internet, you have the right to cancel orders on products that are not made to order by notifying us in writing (including email) before delivery or within 7 working days of receiving of the goods.

 

If you cancel your order once it has been delivered, you must not use the goods, must take care of them, and must make them available to us when we call to collect them on the date we will agree with you. We will collect the goods and then refund the cost of the items ordered within 30 days of cancellation.

 

Please ensure that the goods are maintained in a saleable condition and in their original packaging. Self assembly furniture cannot be returned once assembly is part or fully completed, unless the item is found to be faulty.

 

If you do not comply with your obligations above, we will not agree to the refund or may make a reasonable charge to cover any costs that we incur (for example in respect of wasted collection journeys or goods that you have damaged or lost). Your statutory rights are not affected.

 

Exceptions to this policy

The Cancellation and Refund policy described above will stand unless:

 

• We have not followed your instructions clearly
  
• The order has been delayed by more than 5 weeks after the lead time quoted to you in writing at the point of order
  
• The product is found to be faulty
  
• Refund in excess of £199 will be made via our Head Office.
  

THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS DO NOT AFFECT YOUR STATUTORY RIGHTS.

If you have any doubts about your statutory rights please contact your local Trading Standards department or Citizens Advice Bureau.

 

What do you think, although the refund less £199 seems a bit unfair?

 

[perplexity]

oh, and Loadedok, thanks for your advice too, but what specific action should we take to reject the settee as Harveys have already said we cannot do this?

 

 

Remind the lady that when a repair or replacement is impossible "within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to the buyer", the right exists to rescind the contract.

 

This is a statutory right, provided by section 48C of the Sale of Goods Act, so is not affected by their terms and conditions.

[rebel11]

You've mis-read it, it says if the value is more then £199, then Head Office will send out the Refund.

 

10) SALE OF GOODS ACT-EDUCATE YOUR RETAILER CLICK HERE 12) SOGA SUMMARY CLICK HERE

13) WHICH? TEMPLATES CLICK HERE

 

 

 

I have just read about the Sale of Goods Act as you suggest and looked at Harvey's t&cs which seem to imply we are eligible for a refund, I quote:

 

"17. Cancelling your order AFTER 7 days of placing your order

 

Made to Order Products

Made to order products, have been produced specifically for you, therefore no refunds or exchanges can be made after 7 days of placing your order unless there is an error on our part regarding the product specification, or the item is found to be faulty.

 

For products ordered over the Internet, you have the right to cancel orders on products that are not made to order by notifying us in writing (including email) before delivery or within 7 working days of receiving of the goods.

 

If you cancel your order once it has been delivered, you must not use the goods, must take care of them, and must make them available to us when we call to collect them on the date we will agree with you. We will collect the goods and then refund the cost of the items ordered within 30 days of cancellation.

 

Please ensure that the goods are maintained in a saleable condition and in their original packaging. Self assembly furniture cannot be returned once assembly is part or fully completed, unless the item is found to be faulty.

 

If you do not comply with your obligations above, we will not agree to the refund or may make a reasonable charge to cover any costs that we incur (for example in respect of wasted collection journeys or goods that you have damaged or lost). Your statutory rights are not affected.

 

Exceptions to this policy

The Cancellation and Refund policy described above will stand unless:

 

 

• We have not followed your instructions clearly
  
• The order has been delayed by more than 5 weeks after the lead time quoted to you in writing at the point of order
  
• The product is found to be faulty
  
• Refund in excess of £199 will be made via our Head Office.
  

THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS DO NOT AFFECT YOUR STATUTORY RIGHTS.

If you have any doubts about your statutory rights please contact your local Trading Standards department or Citizens Advice Bureau.

 

What do you think, although the refund less £199 seems a bit unfair?

 

[Kookie444]

Thanks again! I will take it then that we are entitled to reject the settee and get a full refund, so I will send that letter out to Harvey's head office. I also take it that we should not use the settee at all until they come to collect it, which is a bit tricky really, but do you agree? Should I also inform their customer services of this too?

 

Lots of questions, sorry!!

[rebel11]

Send it Recorded Delivery. You can phone them, take a name, extension number and time that you spoke to them. In the letter make sure you write the order number. I wouldn't use them, find some chairs:-)

 

Thanks again! I will take it then that we are entitled to reject the settee and get a full refund, so I will send that letter out to Harvey's head office. I also take it that we should not use the settee at all until they come to collect it, which is a bit tricky really, but do you agree? Should I also inform their customer services of this too?

 

Lots of questions, sorry!!

[perplexity]

Thanks again! I will take it then that we are entitled to reject the settee ...

 

 

It is their offer to repair that you reject, because it takes too long.

 

For as long as you continue to argue about the settee, the point is missed.

[Kookie444]

Great advice, thanks so much. Letter will go tomorrow recorded delivery and we will not use the sofa. I will let you know what happens, just hope it is not too long-winded!!

[Kookie444]

Hi, Liz - thanks for your post and support, but we have already sent the letter as advised by rebel11 rejecting settee and requesting full refund. It was delivered on 10 August (track and trace), so now waiting for response. Presume this is all we should do at the moment or it could get complicated!

[dx100uk]

a transformer is not a specialist part

 

prob 80% of electrical items have one.

you've got one to power your laptops

 

i cant see how this is the actual problem.

 

any eng with this kind of issue could easily find an alternative.

from maplins or CPC>

 

anyhow i'm going off topic!

 

dx

[perplexity]

I would not have assumed that the replacement part is a transformer, just because " the transformer had broken" and it is ludicrous to expect that "any eng with this kind of issue could easily find an alternative from Maplins" .

 

I used to do this sort of work in the days when electronic equipment was designed to allow for a transformer to be replaced, which is not the strategy nowadays. The chance to find a transformer to fit a particular chassis or circuit board is not at all so good.

 

Unless you know for sure why the transformer broke, it is much more sensible to replace the entirety of the part, switch, motor and all.

[Kookie444]

Hi - just been contacted by Harveys customer services people who say they do not accept that we are entitled to a refund as they have the right to try and fix the problem first. We also mentioned that the middle seat sits higher than the seats either side of it and were not happy with this either. However, conversation went nowhere as they are adamant we have to accept a repair. What now? Do we instruct a solicitor to take this forward?

[rebel11]

Hi lis

 

That is disappointing, but not surprising. The Sale of Goods Act (1979) clear states:-

 

• Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).

 

• Goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description.

 

• Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety.

 

• If goods do not conform to contract at the time of sale, purchasers can request their money back "within a reasonable time".

 

• If repair and replacement are not possible or too costly, then the consumer can seek a partial refund, if they have had some benefit from the good, or a full refund if the fault/s have meant they have enjoyed no benefit

 

I would send a final Letter Before Action, stating the above points, stressing that you have enjoyed no benefit at all from the settee and that if you are not refunded within the next 7 days you will consider legal action.

 

Heres some info on small claims court procedure:- http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/wirral/countycourtindex.htm#documenta

[rebel11]

Your address

 

Company/ supplier address

 

Dear

 

(Reference: contract number)

 

On (date) I (bought/placed an order for) a (item), received it on (date). I have discovered that the (item) has the following problem: (add details).

 

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 makes it an implied term of the contract that goods be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality. As you are in breach of contract I am rejecting the (item) and request that you refund the sum paid to you of (£xxx).

 

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 states the following:-

 

• Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).

• Goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description.

• Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety.

• If goods do not conform to contract at the time of sale, purchasers can request their money back "within a reasonable time".

 

I would also like to add that I do not consider six to eight weeks for a repair to be carried out on a 'New Settee' to be satisfactory under any circumstances, I quote Harveys 'there are no parts available in the UK and they have to be ordered from overseas.'

 

I also require you to confirm when you will arrange for the (item) to be collected.

 

I write to advise that if I do not receive a full refund within the next seven days, I will have no alternative but to issue proceedings in the County Court without further notice.

 

Yours sincerely

[miss muppet]

Hi Liz,

 

We had similar probs with Harveys about 2002 with a dining room table, took them to Small Claims (took photos of offending furniture) won the case and they had to pay up - when I had complained to them and asked to speak to a Manager, they said "all of our Managers are out on the road!!" Good Luck.

[Kookie444]

Hi, everyone. Thanks for your great advice and support. We took some legal advice and were advised to send another letter referring to our original letter simply saying that unless Harveys collect the sofa within 7 days of the date of the letter, then we would arrange to have it dropped off at the store we bought it from and claim back the cost of doing so. I will keep you informed!

[Kookie444]

Harveys still refusing refund, but the credit card company has now taken this case on and their legal team are on our side.

[miss muppet]

Good, glad to hear this.

[Kookie444]

Well, Harveys have sent a letter stating they will not refund our money, and will repair the sofa. They will also hold us responsible for any damage incurred if we drop sofa off at their store - so we have decided against this course of action. Disappointingly, when I spoke to our credit card company today, they are saying Harveys are entitled to choose either repair, replacement or refund and they can only approach them to try and persuade them as to our preference! Another legal helpline also confirmed this today, so we are very, very confused! This helpline said we should send Harveys a reply saying we are not happy with their decision but if a repair is made, it must be to our full satisfaction (ie, repair the recliner action, repair the middle cushion that is higher and firmer than the others, and also repair a loud squeaky noise on one of the seats). Then, if we are not satisfied, we can demand a full refund.

 

If we were absolutely sure of our consumer rights and that we are definitely entitled to get a refund, we would be willing to fight this, but we are getting conflicting advice. Would really appreciate your advice, therefore.

Edited August 30, 2011 by Kookie444

[martin2006]

and also repair a loud squeaky noise that has started to happen on one of the seats!

 

How do you know about this if your not using it?

 

sorry to be playing devil's advocate here