Tickets issued for Parking in a Loading Bay from Lambeth Council

[Jamberson]

The complaints people just don't know what they are talking about. It's a specialist process. I wouldn't pay attention to them - the case needs to be processed and so I would advise you just wait for the council to contact you again about the PCN. In the very unlikely event that you hear from the bailiffs again, you have it in writing that your Out of Time was allowed, so you'll be fine.

[Witchywoman]

Thanks for your reply. All at the Council seem to be denying that they have received the court order, that is the first problem. I was originally told I would be refunded my money if this was successful at court which it was.

 

I was in touch with corporate complaints over various other things to do with these two pcns, one being the fact that they council did not even tell me about the second one, despite me visiting their office after receiving the first bailiff visit.

 

I am not expecting another visit from the bailiffs, why would you even say that? The bailiff had collected over a grand from me for the two pcns. That is what I am expecting back, and before the pcns are reissued, if indeed they are.

[Jamberson]

Thanks for your reply. All at the Council seem to be denying that they have received the court order

 

Who? I thought you were dealing with the complaints people? They wouldn't know the complexities of the case, and neither would the average person in the parking dept. Parking will have specialist people to deal with these cases, and they will understand what's happening. Unless you are in direct contact with them, I would just hold on until they contact you.

 

I am not expecting another visit from the bailiffs, why would you even say that?

 

Because if the council were stupid enough to write to the wrong address, the loop would go around again - you still have live PCNs. As I said, extremely unlikely, but it's your safety net just in case. Allow the council a couple of weeks from now to get back to you about the case, and if they don't, then you can chase it up.

[Witchywoman]

Apparently the complaints people work hand in hand with whatever dept. you are complaining about. I was originally dealing with the Head of Parking Services, and because I made a complaint about them and the way my PCNs were dealt with I was referred on to the corporate complaints dept.

 

Can a PCN be live if you have already paid the bailiff because your car was clamped and the bailiff threatened to tow it away? It was only afterwards that I filed the Out of Time after I discovered how to do it on this forum. I had never had a ticket before so this whole area was uncharted territory.

[Witchywoman]

I have confirmed with the County Court that they have both faxed and posted the court order to Lambeth. I spoke to someone today who said someone from LB Lambeth had called them last week to ask for a copy, no doubt because of my persistent emails and phone calls.

 

Today I received an reply email from someone in Parking Services who I had emailed last week asking about my refund. He said I may have to fill out a new Out of Time as my other one wasn't allowed. Seriously, where do they get these people. Do they give them obstruction training when they start the job.

[Witchywoman]

Update: spoke to someone in Lambeth Parking today. He told me that they are allowed to ask that I re-file a new Out of Time, which then goes to TEC, and then Lambeth can then oppose it again. He said of course they might not necessarily oppose it again. In that case what was the point of the judgment at the court on the 4th of July 2012. He said he has referred the case to one of the managers in his dept. This could go on this way ad infinitum.

 

Can they really do this?

Edited July 25, 2012 by Witchywoman

[Jamberson]

No they can't. They are talking rubbish. Just wait until they get back to you about the N244. Give them maybe another week to deal with it.

[Witchywoman]

Thanks Jamberson. I kept insisting they must allow the N244 because the judge said so in her order. Am flabbergasted by this carry-on. I am filled with a sense of impending doom.

[Witchywoman]

Ok, so I get another call from same chap at Lambeth. He says he wants to ask me more questions before he refers it to his manager. This despite saying he referred it to his manager yesterday. The questions were along the lines of when did you move to the property etc... I said all those things had already been gone through in court and that is why the judge allowed the out-of-time.

[Witchywoman]

I have nothing to update regarding this except to say that no one has got back to me, despite saying they would last week. Ironically Lambeth's motto is - Lambeth, the cooperative council. Hollow laugh. It is now 4 weeks since my appearance in court.

[Jamberson]

I think you'll need to raise the delay as a formal complaint to get them moving. You've done everything you needed to. It's not acceptable for them to stall like this.

[Witchywoman]

Thanks for your reply. I had initially raised this matter before it went to court as a complaint with their complaints unit. I was still corresponding with the complaints unit immediately after the court case. The complaints officer was the one I sent the court order to so I knew someone at Lambeth definitely had it. She then passed it on to someone in Parking. As far as I am concerned it is still a complaint. So not sure where it can go now.

[Jamberson]

Your previous complaint was presumably about something else to do with the case.

 

What I am suggesting is that you make a complaint about their failure to refund you. When they look into it, they will see that you won the case and they owe you a refund.

[Witchywoman]

Spoken again to complaints officer and told her that I am now being ignored by the parking office. She knew that they had a copy of the order and that they still weren't sending me a refund. Parking office appears unable to understand what the order means.

[Jamberson]

Raise it as a complaint through the council's website. Just complain that the refund is not being issued to you despite you having won the N244 case. They will have to investigate, will see you are right, and will have to confirm that you are having your refund processed. I don't see what else you can do to be honest. If you are not satisfied with their response, you can escalate it through the local government ombudsman.

[Witchywoman]

I could sue them for the refund. Take them back to court. It's already with the complaints office again. Don't see why I should have to go through the website.

[Witchywoman]

Have received another email from them stating that I need to go back to the court to ask for advice on what to do next?!? They are claiming I did not provide proof of where I lived at the time of the contraventions, despite this being in the court papers I submitted when I filed my out of time. They are also saying that they are seeking address proof from the bailiff?!?

[Jamberson]

If what you say is correct - you did an N244 and won it, and you have that in writing - then the council are 100% wrong now. The whole address thing is irrelevant as they will have been ordered to withdraw the warrant whether they like it or not.

 

I can only give you the same advice I gave before. Lodge a formal complaint about this issue.

 

They should have withdrawn the warrant retrospectively and refunded you. There is nothing more you can do except complain and force them to look into the situation. Council complaints of this nature are usually taken seriously and go to top-level managers and they are compelled to give you a substantive response. They normally will succeed quickly where the council is definitely in the wrong.

[Witchywoman]

Thanks Jamberson. I am mystified as to why they are doing this. I have a copy of the court order, which allows my out of time. The same one was sent to the council. I contacted the court again today, who have confirmed that they have written to me to confirm that the court order stands.

 

Despite me copying the head of parking, and the head of the council into my correspondence, it is still not resolved. Perhaps their coffers are bare?

 

I have lodged another complaint with the council. I have also lodged one with the Ombudsman today after speaking to them. They have given me a case no. They said it is highly unusual for this to happen.

[Jamberson]

Good stuff.

 

It is highly unusual. Earlier on, I expected the refund would just arrive but clearly you've given them plenty of time and they still haven't issued it.

 

Keep us posted with what happens next. Hopefully it won't take too long now.

[Witchywoman]

It will take months if it has to go through the Ombudsman. I am bewildered at the amount of excuses I have heard from the council; haven't got the order, file another out of time, ask the court what to do, we (meaning Lambeth) have done everything properly, we can object again, we will pass this on to someone to deal with.

 

Can you tell me where it is written that when an out of time is allowed the council have to give you a refund? Perhaps if I can point somewhere to this then it will hasten things along. It was down to me to make sure they got the court order as they kept claiming they hadn't received it.

[Jamberson]

I am gobsmacked by this situation.

 

Where is it written down? I am not sure. At the moment though, your battle seems to be getting them to accept that you were awarded the N244 hearing. They don't seem to understand.

 

Are you able to post on here a copy of the judgment you got, saying you won the case. Make sure you blank out any personal information.

[Witchywoman]

The order just said that my out of time applications be allowed. Never having seen one before I presume that is normally what they say. I don't have a scanner at the moment.

 

The two out of time applications I had filed with TEC were in amongst the court bundles. The judge had seen them. It's as if this is some sort of strange beast not seen before at Lambeth Parking Services.

[Jamberson]

Two out of times? Does the order say both have been allowed?

[Jamberson]

Just read over the thread again to refresh my memory. You did say you filed two Out of times, and that the N244 was for both. So, does the paperwork you got, saying you were successful, name both PCNs?