Ingeus

[caledfwlch]

I feel quite lucky then! I have been with Working Links for a year.

 

The most I get though are 2 minute appointments every few weeks, with sometimes, 3 or 4 months gap between as they keep changing advisors for some reason. And to think they are likely being paid per week for having me on the books.

 

They have been as much use as a chocolate teapot. All they care about are Work Trials, because they get their bonuses for them - to the point that employers come in wanting to interview people on the books, for real, paid jobs, and get persuaded by working links, to go for work trials instead, because then WL can make lots of bonus money by sending loads of candidates for months.

 

When I started with them, I filled in all the paperwork including detailed medical stuff, since I cannot do certain work due to problems.

A shoulder injury (I was assaulted, knocked to floor and one "horizontal" Bone was wrenched out of place, so while a fit shoulder, your bones lie on top of each other, mine has a very large gap, complete with a massive lump sticking up out of my shoulder) I have trapped nerves causing numbness in my left hand (the side of the injury) caused either by an admin job in a warehouse, where despite my injury I was forced to do manual labour, or by the botched Physiotherapy I had - Physio told me my x ray showed no skeletal injury so I must have a pulled ligament. Having returned home to Wales, I had an app with a consultant, who did a new x ray, and even I could see the injury!!

 

I have Neuropathy on toes on both feet, which I suspect is spreading to other parts which seems to be causing balance problems, and difficulties standing for long times.

 

So they knew all this, and rang me up excited because they had found me a work trial!

Lifting and moving heavy boxes in a warehouse. When at the moment I struggle taking the weight of a shopping bag......... Idiots

 

So then they rang offering me a work trial... as a Chef in a busy restaurant.

err, why? I asked bemused

"because you have a food hygiene certificate"

Apparantly, that qualifies me to be a Chef and not, like I thought to simply work in food factories, or helping out as a kitchen porter.

 

How on earth can people be advising jobseekers when they don't even know what a particular qualification means?

[caledfwlch]

The only pit fall that I can also see is that if you qualify for the payment of job grant and 4 weeks run on of housing benefit aqnd tax credits then do you really want to risk losing those? If you aren't bothered about losing that money then by all means declare any other reason for ending your claim and as posted before the JCP will only disclose the reason to the provider as the one you give for ending your claim.

The figure of a maximum of £14700 that the provider can claim is for the client groups that will find more barriers in the way of securing long term employment (such as those who have a disability) and the provider is only paid this sum if the remain the the long term employment for the 2 year period that they would otherwise have spent with the provider.

 

Out of interest, how do they establish whether the provider can get the bonus? Is it simply, if at the end of 24 months, you haven't returned and made a new claim/claimed for ESA and so on, they pay out?

 

I am actually surprised there isnt an option whereby if you find a job of your own bat a box is ticked, so the provider doesnt get anything, given the Gov's fascination with saving money.

 

But then, all the Provider's Contracts seem to have been written by the providers themselves, and then signed by someone at the DWP who is blind, deaf and dumb.

[caledfwlch]

The providers are contracted to stay in contact with the client for the 2 year period. The longer the client remains in employment the more the provider recives in payments. When I go through and close claims for clients who ere on the work programme I have to complete a form to post to the provider to state the reason why the claim has ended and the date the claim ended.

You can chose to end the claim without giving a reason but of course you would then lose out on the job grant and housing benefit/council tax run on too.

 

So basically you can tell the provider to "(edit) off" and refuse to confirm whether you are still in employment, or even lie and say you have quit to move to Spain - theres nothing they can do to you, by the sounds. Once your off the JSA books, you no longer have a contractual arrangement with the provider by the sounds.

Edited September 11, 2011 by ErikaPNP
circumvention of swear filter

[caledfwlch]

caledfwlch, no you are still required to keep in contact with the providers for the duration of the 2 years from when you first attemded, however nobody can force you to answer their calls or reply to their letters can they?

 

What "punishment" can they levy for telling the provider to (edit) off?

 

Any agreement with the Provider is surely null and void once you leave JSA. I don't recall anything I signed with Working Links suggesting I have a contractual relationship that continues after I leave.

 

These providers are so rubbish and (edit), I am determined to be the awkwardest (edit) ever with them. I have left WL's wings now, after 12 months, managed to avoid every joke of a work trial they offered

 

But I will be contacted by whomever is doing the Mandatory work programme in the next 2 or 3 months. Will make damn sure I read anything I have to sign, and take advice on whether I can refuse to sign for certain conditions I don't like, if any.

Edited September 11, 2011 by ErikaPNP
circumvention of swear filter along with potentially libelleous statement

[caledfwlch]

I have some legal docs to send to Ingeus C.E.O tomorrow and if my plan works The whole Work Programme will fail

overnight, Will be costing them loads of money from all customers who sent in the refusal letters.

 

Cheeky gits sent me 2 new appointments both claiming to be my "first" appointments when that is impossible as I had my

first meeting in August, check secret video: http://theworkprogramme.me.uk

 

Watch this space for any developments.

 

P.S Anyone with problems as Yorkylad had with them demanding data you must make a complain to the ICO, more complaints

about this private company the better.

 

George

 

Have you researched this thoroughly? There is genuinely, absolutely no way that Jobcentre Plus can sanction the benefits of somebody for refusing to sign any paperwork with a private corporation, ie the Provider, only if you refuse to attend appointments?

[caledfwlch]

The unpaid work trials sadly are not "illegal" However Ingeus should be paying your travel to and from the trial, and iirc, money for food.

 

What does your Jobseekers Agreement say? Does it say you will look for full time work, or does it mention part time? If it only says full time, then they cannot sanction you for not applying for, or accepting a part time job. However, I suspect that you may still have to do this particular trial - whether a job is available at the end of it or not, you generally have to do it

 

You probably think of plenty of ways of being sent home / the trial being cancelled fairly easy if you box clever. Tell them you have Diarrhea, as you would not be allowed to work with or near food then iirc

 

But um - its at a childrens facility? Have Ingeus or the Employer performed a Criminal Records check on you? That could be a way out! One needs to be CRB checked, before working with children, nowadays, even parents volunteering at school have to have one (and pay for it) For all the Employer knows, you could be a convicted child rapist - I would ring up the employer and mention this - point out that Ingeus have not CRB checked you, and ask the employer if you should be, if working with or near kids?

 

AFAIK the CRB check requirements are not magically "waived" just because its a trial, rather than an actual job

 

I need some advice please everyone...

 

I lost my delivery job a couple of weeks ago so the job centre put me back on this Ingeus Programme!

 

On Monday i had an interview at Premier Inn (Preston) but accepted that is was only 16 hours and was happy with that due to it being only 5 miles from me. I heard nothing from them, but to be honest you very rarely hear back from an interview.

 

On Wednesday Ingeus gave me another phone call regarding a restaurant vacancy at a childrens entertainments venue. I asked the Ingeus lady if it was more than part time hours and she said yes!

 

At the interview i was asked if i have any kitchen experience to which i replied no! I only have basic catering experience ect. She asked if i could do a work trial to which i said yes as it would only be for a few hours. After this i asked about the hours to which she replied it's only 16 hours. I said i was unhappy due to being told it would be more hours ect.

 

I then phoned Ingeus when i got home and she made out that i was in the wrong and that i did'nt understand her. She came up with a bull $%£^ story to get herself out of it and that she would contact the employer for me. 4 hours later! She called me back saying it's 16 hours minimum but pos more hours in the future.

 

I told her i want more than 16 hours due to me living 20 miles away from Southport but she made it clear that i have to do the work trial at 2pm today.

 

After reading about work trials and being told by Ingeus that it's unpaid i just want to clairfy a few things :-

 

Do i have to take part in an "illegal" unpaid work trial?

Would my benefits be sanctioned if i don't take it?

 

 

I have read many websites and spoke to my job centre advisor who says unpaid work trials are illegal ect. Why then do Ingeus pressure people into doing them? I told Ingeus 16 hours is $%£$ and that i wont be any better off but they continue to push me and push me to where i nearly punched my advisor in the face! LOL

[caledfwlch]

Ah you have gone about it the wrong way imho - what you should have done is contacted the employer first to check if your need a CRB. What sort of business is it exactly? And can you urgently telephone the employer to check this?

 

We don't want you getting sanctioned, if it turns out a CRB check is not needed, contact the employer asap, and if they say yes you do need one, then email Ignoramus again, saying you forgot to mention, you spoke to the employer, and they confirmed this.

 

However I have googled the company, and it seems to me, that a CRB Check WILL be needed as this is a childrens play centre, I would be very surprised if a CRB check was NOT required for staff - googling similar companies and services around the country, most make an effort to boast/show that their staff are CRB checked, so I suspect it is a requirement, companies tend not to fork out £80 or whatever the fee is, when not needed.

 

Oh and damned good one on the Liability Insurance!!! I forgot about that - It was part of my defence, if needed when I turned down a manual labour work trial with Working Links, due to having a shoulder injury and trapped nerves - ie I would not be covered, since I am medically unfit to do that role.

 

 

THANKS caledfwlch!...

 

I'm not feeling too well today mate! GOT THE BRAD PITTS! hahaha.

 

 

I emailed my advisor with :-

 

Hi Dan,

 

After recent research with regards to the work trial, i am unable to take part in the trial...

 

Playtown is a childrens facility - Have you performed a Criminal Records check on me? One needs to be CRB checked, before working with children, nowadays, even parents volunteering at a school have to have one (and pay for it) For all the Employer knows, i could have been convicted of an offence which could stop me working with or near kids?

 

CRB check requirements are not magically "waived" just because its a trial, rather than an actual job.

 

The reason i have brought this matter up is due to currently filling out forms to be a scout volunteer and needing a CRB check.

 

I'm not refusing to do the work trial in the future but, i want to do everything legally. I want proof of liability insurance and also proof that i am able to work in a child environment. Which legally done would require a CRB check.

 

Regards,

 

Richard

[caledfwlch]

Ingeus phoned me within minutes of sending the e-mail. They know they are in the wrong and accept that i don't have to take the job offer. But the cheeky buggers want me to call the employer

to cancel my trial as it would make them look bad! hahaha

 

INGEUS??? ADMIT WHEN YOU ARE WRONG!

 

They arranged it, they should cancel it.

 

Of course you could ring the employer to let them know exactly how Ingeus messed up, trying to send people to a role that requires people to be CRB checked, without doing one... Ingueus could well then find that company refusing any more trials from them hehe

[caledfwlch]

In other words, are you going to do their dirty work them? I wouldn't.

 

Indeed, but there is scope to make life for the advisor a little more interesting, and potentially cost Ingeus a partner willing to take trials on, should the OP call.

 

I personally would consider contacting the local press - how many work trials without CRB checks at this company have Ingeus arranged and the trial gone ahead, I wonder?

[caledfwlch]

I don't know the rules and regs regarding CRB checks, but i would have had direct contact with children in this role. They wanted me to serve the tables ect and come into contact with children. Just because parents are present, does that mean i don't need a CRB check?

 

Also not all parents were present during my interview! I assumed any job working in a child environment needs a CRB check. My advisor seems to think differently!

 

I thought it sounded very dubious myself - I think back kitchen staff in schools for example are CRB checked.

 

And of course, there is the whole thing about parents being banned from various things and places, unless they pay for a CRB check.

 

I reckon your advisor is just hoping he is correct, not certain He, Igneus and the employer could potentially be in serious trouble, if we are correct, and they have done non checked trials..

[caledfwlch]

I,m with Remploy and have nothing but problems. They keep giving me appointments they know I can't make. I volunter and they want to put me on a work placement. Full time no doubt, which I can't physocally do. They wanted me to stay for an hour on Wednesday job searching. I can do by myself at home. They ttold me to aply for a job I can't do and they know this. I'm finding this a waste of time.

 

They moaned me bexause I told them a few weeks ago I couldn't make appointments in the afernoon. Reluctantly I came to the appointment on Wednesday and told them I can't come this afternon, whch I got told off for. They won't change the appointments that I can't maake next week either. I'm not that weel at the moment and this is just making me worse.

 

Ask them in writing why a company supposedly founded to assist the ill and disabled is actually incapable of doing so. Maybe invoke the DDA.

[caledfwlch]

A "bright idea" has occurred to me.

 

Get some advice for a letter to be written and hand delivered.

 

Ask them why they are refusing to make suitable alterations/adaptations in order to make allowances for your disability? A failure to do so, would be a breach of the DDA, wouldnt it, especially since, technically speaking, they are a public service.

[caledfwlch]

Control and Dominate each and every single conversation (politely)

 

Control the conversation so as little is said on what YOU are expected to do, but what THEY are expected to do.

 

Demand they look for suitable, proper courses for you. If they refuse, demand they hand it to you in writing, before you will leave, that they do not believe their job is to see if you need qualifications/skills, and they refuse to do so Again if they refuse to put it in writing tell them, politely, oh well, it will be in the transcript of my personal recording of this interview, which will be given to my JSA Advisor next time in complaint. (whether you are recording or not)

 

Hammer out diary sheets on your PC with at least a hundred plus actions per interview, cunningly layed out to be wasteful in paper and ink, they have to print stuff like that out for you I believe. Now, they are wasting your time, but you are costing THEM money!

 

Take every opportunity to steer the conversation into wild tangents.

[caledfwlch]

Cheers for the advice

 

I want to tell them there's no point duplicating it, BUT I don't want to sound arsey. Theyve told me to apply for something like 90 jobs a week; I'm to record each one. I suppose I might as well cram it into the little booklet thing (ES4JP)

 

Put down all your job applications but on the copy your giving to Ingeus, blank out the company name. AFAIK that cannot get you sanctioned - it could only cause you potential hassle if you blanked out the copy you show when you sign on with the actual, real DWP

 

Tell Ingeus, that as Ingeus is a private commercial entity, you are unwilling to provide them with what are effectively lists, tips, and contacts they can use to try and source new clients for the Work Programmes - and unless they wish to pay you a finding fee for providing them with valuable operational data, ie an employers name, and the fact they are recruiting, then you will not be doing so. You could also make up an interest Data Protection argument

[caledfwlch]

Quite right.

All the more reason why these private sector, sales driven, profit motivated organisations should not be given the power of sanctioning (or rasing sanction doubts). They should never have been entrusted with the (awesome) task of solving the unemployment problem since there is too much potential conflict between their aims :

1. Getting people in to any old job no matter how unsuitable, poorly paid or insecure.

2. Meeting targets for referals to training schemes (or should I say scams) like the Learn Direct kickbacks and ESF rip offs and

3. Meeting targets for referrals to incestuous earners on the sides like "Money Advice" (probably only applies to A4greed)

AND the "customers'" needs:

1. Being treated as a rational (and sometimes well educated) person with real needs

2. Access to genuine, real, sustainable and properly paid jobs.

This is not just Ingeus, it's not even just A4greed. It's the whole ill conceived, misbegotten, dog's dinner that is the WP and "workfare".

 

Rant over.

 

If those rumours that people forced onto the work programmes under threat of benefit sanctions are now having their benefits sanctioned.... because they are on the work programme with these contractors, and thus have no time to look for work, are true, then they have engineered the "Perfect Storm"

 

XXX Shop gets free slave labour, the DWP does not have to pay benefits, since they have been sanctioned, thus this is literally slave labour, working for free, not even benefits, the Contractor gets their blood money, everyone happy.

[caledfwlch]

Right. Got an appointment with one of these places next week. I've read about ten pages back and its pretty scary what goes on.

 

I need a quick guid know what to do/not to do.

 

I think I may have signed one of those waiver forms when I last signed on but am not sure - is it the job centre that gets you to sign them?

 

If I remember from my own experience with the Muppets at Working Links, it will be the Contractor that asks you to sign the Waiver, as you will have paperwork to fill in with them at your first appointment.

 

Google Consent Me as that web page will give you a ton of advice on refusing to sign the Waiver, and other issues with these providers.

[caledfwlch]

Obviously you feel that this country owes you something Masso!!??

 

I have used Ingeus and they helped me to get work and paid my Travel costs.

 

That's the problem with the UK now... All the younger generation expect to be handed everything on plate!

 

I was with Working Links for a year. They did nothing for me at all. Except for offering 2 Work Trials 1 was medically unsuitable, and they knew that as they had my medical problems on file, 1 was skills, experience & partly medically unsuitable.

 

Trial 1 - lifting and carrying boxes for a wholesalers. I have a permanent shoulder injury and Neuropathy which prevents physical work.

Trial 2 - Chef for a restaurant. I have no training as a Chef, and my Shoulder injury, neuropathy combined with coordination problems would stop me working as one, if I even had a clue how to be one. I was half tempted to accept it just to completely destroy Working Link's relationship with that employer, as I doubt after me they would have trusted WL again Due to coordination and neuropathy I constantly cut/injure myself, so when cooking, I work very, very slowly, nowhere near fast enough for a retail food environment.

 

I am 33. I have worked since I was 16 for 16 years, I don't think the country "owes me" however, I also don't think I owe the government slave labour.

[caledfwlch]

You can declare that you have found work but you do not have to disclose the name of your employer only that the work will last 5 weeks or more to be considered for the Job Grant and any housing payment run on payments. As long as you state the daqte you start work that is all that JCP require to close your claim, you can't sign off via the telephony In Work Team to close your claim without providing the employer details but if you complete for ES40JP or ES40sJP you are not compelled to disclose the details

All you have to do ten is refuse to speak to the Work Programme Providers/Advisers as they will obviuosly want to find out the details so they can claim their payments but it's your phone and you have the right to speak or not to whoever you choose and they may try to write to you but again you don't have to reply to any of teir letters

 

I wonder what would happen if you gave a provider the name of a wrong employer What exactly do they need from the employer to get their pound of flesh from the DWP? If there is a company you dislike, oooh, say your at Ingeus, tell them you have been given a job at A4E? and let them have a big argument with each other trying to get info that does not exist!

[caledfwlch]

caledfwlch I like it

If the wrong info was given then all they could do is keep attempting to contact the client to ask for the correct info, don't forget the longer the client remains in work the more they get paid!

 

If one has found work, then once one has arrived into the timescale when the Provider, if you told them who you were working for would get the maximum payout, I suppose you could try a "negotiation" for a few hundred quid in return for the info!

[caledfwlch]

I tried negotiating for a Personal Licence pay-out, but they would only meet me half way! You can try negotiating with the “pimps” but they can be tough at times.

 

I dealt with things in the wrong way to be honest. I should have given Ingeus the option, either they can have my withdrawal of consent letter, or the cash in my bank/back pocket by 5pm!

 

I ended up quitting the job I started, due to mistreatment by my boss. I have 2 interviews today so hope to be back in employment soon! Otherwise it’s the rapid reclaim route, and the sanction stamp from Ingeus for what I did to them. Hehehehe…………

 

Can't sanction you for withdrawing consent Least this time round, if you have to go back, they know you wont take messing! As an awkward customer they will probably leave you alone in the main.

[caledfwlch]

Typing in A4e brings similar response. In addition under Purpose 5 "crime prevention and the prosecution of offenders" we have:

Which explains the universal coverage of CCTV (there's even CCTV cameras in the toilets!).

 

Is it legal to put CCTV in toilets

[caledfwlch]

It's a bit of a cost when on benefits, but....

 

I wonder what would happen if there was a concerted effort to hit individual providers with thousands of SAR's at the start of a month. Given that they can be in trouble for not fulfilling them in time

[caledfwlch]

hi all, i found work and politely asked my advisor by e-mail not to contact my new employer, the next day she sent me an e-mail by mistake which was addressed to another advisor saying 'hi mush, can you please contact (my new job details ) and get the employer contact and we will do our bits each end, thanks xxx' i was so annoyed, just want to ask is there anything i can do about it?

 

get hold of your new employer ASAP and withdraw all permission for them to communicate with Ingeus! And tell them this is your legal right, no matter what Ingeus may try to claim in a letter or phonecall to them.

[caledfwlch]

Optimist Prime, once yu have been transfered to the Work Programme they take responsibility for your Job Seekers Agreement in a s much as they can realistically discuss with you the type of work you are looking for, what you have experience and qualifications in and all type of employment that you can apply for, it is not limited purely to the 3 job goals or your ES3JP Job Seekers Agreement. They can alter it to what they think and you have the right to question it if it is unreasonable.

 

It is what they refer to as an action plan which you are supposed to bwe issued with to take to the JCP office to show what your hjob goals have been for the previous 2 week period you are signing for.

 

They must be on VERY dodgy grounds if they are claiming to sanction you, because, even though you have fulfilled your agreement, they have found a job you did not see. They are effectively saying, you are contracted to apply for 5 jobs, but if you do that and we find 6 jobs, then we are sanctioning you for breaching the contract you have fulfilled??????????

[caledfwlch]

I thought it was "legal" ie not sanctionable to leave off the company name of jobs your applying for to the pimp? It's only the DWP itself that has a sanctionable right to demand such info?

 

Because we are not contracted to provide the pimp with useful job contacts.

 

I would have thought 21.04.2010 Administrative Position Local Company CV Emailed to requested address with cover letter is unsanctionable. One can provide the DWP itself with the employer details, and prove of email service if required?