Ingeus

[osdset]

if ingeus advisors are so clever then why haven't they all got better jobs instead of working as an employment advisor?!

 

They are in the right positions, I could not think of a better place for ex snake oil salesmen, ex used car dealers, and failed double glazing canvassers. It must be pretty demoralising when the best you can can aspire to is the heady ranks of Ingeus or A4e. Working within the Work Programme is the last port of call before the dole queue.

[joeski]

They are in the right positions, I could not think of a better place for ex snake oil salesmen, ex used car dealers, and failed double glazing canvassers. It must be pretty demoralising when the best you can can aspire to is the heady ranks of Ingeus or A4e. Working within the Work Programme is the last port of call before the dole queue.

 

i think most WP advisors know that a lot of unemployed people are better qualified than they are, they are jealous so they try to put people in bottom of the ladder jobs out of spite.

[Lorise]

I agree. Take your jsa agreement down to that wp drone amd staple it on his forehead then maybe he will remember the working boundries and restrictions you have.

 

Ooooh so tempted to do that haha ,I tell him all the time i am limited to the hours i can do, yet he still says i should try harder, the last job he wanted me to go for was at Tesco and it was night shift work...i honestly don't think they even read what jobs/hours we want/need...it's all about their targets that week.

Edited June 30, 2013 by citizenB

[Mr.P]

...I honestly don't think they even read what jobs/hours we want/need...

 

Only ever had notice of three jobs:

 

• Admin for CPS requiring knowledge of the legal system...
  
• Admin for local government office with experience of government tendering processes
  
• Zero hour temp contract with a mail delivery firm (own transport required).
  

Know absolutely nothing about legal or government processes, I'm a frikin engineer (amongst other things) with dirt under my fingernails... I'll also be buggered if I'm going to travel ten miles to some godforsaken industrial estate when the buses only run during daylight hours... Read the damned job spec.

[jasta11]

Of the 3 jobs Ingeus have found for me, one was doing admin for an undertakers (which I suppose should be a safe enough job as there's no shortage of potential clients), the second was actually for Ingeus, as an advisor at another local branch (talk about 'supping with the devil') and the third was the classic customer service (which wasn't covered by my JSA and Ingeus knew I was a short-tempered gentleman anyway).

 

I must admit though, these last 6 weeks with Ingeus have been marvellous; I really can't fault anything they've done.

..mainly because they've not been in touch with me at all

[joeski]

i find WP advisors annoying, patronising and just generallly rude..a WP advisor is hardly the best job in the world is it!

[Charlotte_Henderson]

 

I must admit though, these last 6 weeks with Ingeus have been marvellous; I really can't fault anything they've done.

..mainly because they've not been in touch with me at all

 

:whoo:

[Charlotte_Henderson]

Ooooh so tempted to do that haha ,I tell him all the time i am limited to the hours i can do, yet he still says i should try harder, the last job he wanted me to go for was at Tesco and it was night shift work...i honestly don't think they even read what jobs/hours we want/need...it's all about their targets that week.

 

They don't give a damn what hours you want to do, all they care about is getting a bonus out of you.

[Charlotte_Henderson]

if ingeus advisors are so clever then why haven't they all got better jobs instead of working as an employment advisor?!

 

 

 

working for ingeus is hardly top of the employment chain is it..not like they're executives of big companies or anything so they seriously need slapping down

 

I Concur totally! they act like they have a fantastic job or something.

[Chester6]

They don't give a damn what hours you want to do, all they care about is getting a bonus out of you.

 

I've come across advisers like this before, they tend not to listen and one even sent me to a money matters appointment when I had the same info from using the internet

[RebeccaPidgeon]

They are in the right positions, I could not think of a better place for ex snake oil salesmen, ex used car dealers, and failed double glazing canvassers. It must be pretty demoralising when the best you can can aspire to is the heady ranks of Ingeus or A4e. Working within the Work Programme is the last port of call before the dole queue.

In the scheme of things, if someone is working in the Welfare To Work Sector, this simply means that they weren't sufficiently qualified to obtain employment within a Call Centre, let alone something more demanding within the Public Sector, Third Sector or Wealth Creating Sector.

[Charlotte_Henderson]

I've come across advisers like this before, they tend not to listen and one even sent me to a money matters appointment when I had the same info from using the internet

 

ALL advisors are like this not just some.

[Nystagmite]

They don't give a damn what hours you want to do, all they care about is getting a bonus out of you.

 

I noticed this. Told them I couldn't do Sundays due to lack of transport, (whilst my parents are willing to drop me places and pick me up, I'm not sure they'd appreciate doing it at silly hours) and they didn't care.

[Raven1]

Okay I have delved into my archives and uncovered the telephone harassment letter which never fails:

 

 

Name & Address

 

 

- HARASSMENT WARNING -

 

WARNING: PROTECTION FROM HARASSMENT ACT 1997

 

WARNING: COMMUNICATIONS ACT 2003. s127.

 

Telephone Number: Your phone number (s)

 

Re: Harassment by Telephone

 

 

 

Date

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Your Reference: I would put your NI number here

 

I am writing in relation to the telephone calls I have received from your organisation, which I deem to be personally harassing.

 

I now require the telephone number(s) listed above to be completely removed from your systems.

 

I am of the view that your calling puts you in breach of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

This is a private telephone line, operated on a contract with the intention of receiving and making personal telephone calls, I have not authorised anyone to receive calls from your organisation using this PRIVATE TELEPHONE LINE.

 

By using this telephone number without my permission you are interfering with my ability to use my own private property for the duration of any call.

 

It is my right to require that this telephone line, which is licensed solely to me, be kept clear for my own personal calls.

 

It is consequently my view that you are committing the tort of interference with contract insofar as for the duration of each call you make to me without my permission, you are interfering with my contractual right to receive and make personal calls on my private telephone line.

 

Continued interference with my contractual rights in this manner will result in legal action.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to the Office of Communications, Trading Standards and the Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable for a substantial fine.

 

Be advised that all telephone calls from your company are recorded.

 

 

Kind Regards

 

 

If a work programme representative continues to call you when you are no longer claiming JSA send this and never discuss anything with them on the phone. 'Thank you for your call. Click'

Edited May 13, 2013 by Raven1

[Mr.P]

If a work programme representative continues to call you when you are no longer claiming JSA send this and never discuss anything with them on the phone. 'Thank you for your call. Click'

 

I'd also add "any written communication requiring a reply will incur a consultancy fee of not less than £100 payable within seven calendar days." - The buggers have made money off you whilst wasting your time, so it seems reasonable to get paid too.

[Ih8Ingeus]

Hi all,

 

I have been reading this thread for a while now; very interesting.

Can someone confirm for me please:

 

If they book you into a workshop for example: Do you only have to 100% go if they send you a M.A.N?

 

If there is no M.A.N then there's nothing they can do to make you attend?

 

Thanks

[jasta11]

In short, no. EVERY mandatory activity must be in writing only, either handed to you or posted in good time (2 days allowed). Also it must be worded very specifically and contain sections according to DWP rules.

 

They're allowed to ask you informally, ie verbally, telephone, emal if you'd like to come in - but this is not a mandatory notification so you're under no obligation to do it (though no doubt they'll try and tell you that you are - they're wrong).

[irelivent]

I've been with provider for almost 2 years now. Started off normal, going in every now and again to catch up and show them what I'd been up to.

 

Suddenly, they stopped contacting me for about 5 month, I got a message saying I had a new advisor, I went for the meeting with said Advisor which was an introductory meeting. The following week, my time with said advisor had finished and I was on to a new advisor with another introductory meeting.

 

Going on from that, They put me forward to a college for a 1 week course, the college staff went beyond their job description to help me achieve a job over the Christmas, including helping me with my CV which provider later attempted to sabotage.

 

I've only just found this site and it's been rather helpful, I wish I'd found it sooner and I have a few tasks to take care of.

 

My previous advisor was constantly sending me on Interview Technique workshops, in which I just slept through, I was the only one attending that actually knew how to handle an Interview. Upon last being advised to said workshop, I told her strictly, "No, It's a waste of time" She argued that I needed it, and went on to insult me and point out where she thought I could improve my interview techniques to which I pointed out that the advisor appointment was not an interview and did not resemble how I act or represent my self in an interview.

 

Furthermore, During that appointment advisor informed me that there was a change of my JSA claim that I hadn't been notified of, I spent most of the appointment calling JSA from their office to find out what was going on, My claim had been cancelled and therefor I wasn't obligated to remain at provider and complete the tasks provided in the appointment, I completed my JSA reclaim and proceded to complete 4/5 of the task, but because I didn't have 5/5 and I'd spent time organizing my JSA she refused me travel and tried to have me spend another 30 minutes job hunting to get it.

 

At this point, I walked straight out of the office, weeks later I received a phone call from another advisor informing me that previous advisor was no longer with provider. I attended my first appointment with new advisor, all went well just sitting and talking, going through a job search together. Printing off some jobs (in retarded places that I would be out of pocket in travel)

 

We arranged a new appointment for yesterday, I received a phone call days after previous appointment claiming I'd missed an appointment, to which I didn't know had existed. Finally after I'd found the appointment she had handed me (Which wasn't on paper with the JSA specific wording) she admitted defeat and claimed she must have double booked.

 

Coming up to yesterday, I received a phone call stating she was unavailable for the appointment and someone would contact me with a new one. Yesterday, I received a phone call informing me advisor had put me forward for "Sports Employability Training" A four week, I believe full time course claimed a sports course as you get to play football at the end of it, What a waste of my time and tax payer money...

 

The appointment I was told over the phone was for today at 10am and mandatory, I plan to go in at 10am and serve a complaint and waive anything I've signed. I looked through a link (can't repeat it) which I found earlier in the forums, and found a few things to complain about.

 

- Mandatory appointments must be given in writing.

- MAN's must contain the JSA specific wording.

- Time frame between issuing the notification and taking part was not reasonable

- (As in writing on that link) It is not acceptable to email or telephone to invoke a MAN

 

Furthermore, I don't feel this course has my best interests in mind and is just another figure for them, During the phone call it was not explained why it was appropriate to my needs and if it remains that way today, I will have to decline.

 

I thank you all, and we'll see how it goes today.

 

Edit:

To the above post, according to their policy. A posted written MAN should be sent on the previous week, allowing 2 days for the post to arrive before It's considered received by the client. An example on their policy, a tuesday appointment would send a letter the previous tuesday, allowing two days to receive.. Gaining notification on the thursday, leaving a reasonable timeframe between being notified and taking part in the appointment. I wouldn't class two days as a reasonable timeframe. Next day appointments, definitely not.

Edited May 14, 2013 by irelivent

[Raven1]

irelivent

 

Looks like you're taking control of the situation, believe me it's a much better place to be than being a victim.

[Mr.P]

irelivent - Take th opportunity to print out the provider guidance notes regarding travel expenses. Nowhere does it state that reimbursement is conditional on completing "tasks", so hand them a written complaint on the matter. Send a copy to the DWP so that they have record of it (and will up the count for the next FoI request), point out to the the provider that an unsatisfactory response will result in the complaint being escalated (you needn't remind them of the £5000 fee that the I.C.E. will charge if you go that route).

 

One more point - For a M.A.N. to arrive within two working days, it must be posted 1st class. Royal Mail aim to deliver 98.5% of 2nd Class mail items within three days of posting and 93% of 1st Class mail items the next working day after posting. In reality, it could take up to three days for 1st, and seven days for 2nd.

[irelivent]

irelivent - Take th opportunity to print out the provider guidance notes regarding travel expenses. Nowhere does it state that Breimbursement is conditional on completing "tasks", so hand them a written complaint on the matter. Send a copy to the DWP so that they have record of it (and will up the count for the next FoI request), point out to the the provider that an unsatisfactory response will result in the complaint being escalated (you needn't remind them of the £5000 fee that the I.C.E. will charge if you go that route).

 

One more point - For a M.A.N. to arrive within two working days, it must be posted 1st class. Royal Mail aim to deliver 98.5% of 2nd Class mail items within three days of posting and 93% of 1st Class mail items the next working day after posting. In reality, it could take up to three days for 1st, and seven days for 2nd.

 

 

As I showed no interest in the course over the phone and told someone would be in touch to arrange a new appointment after the advisors cancellation, I was tricked into answering the phone to this paracite and being placed onto the 4 week program.

 

I attended today agter being told I was attending a talk in person to further discuss the course.

 

When I arrived, I was pulled in with a group to see the same person and bombarded with assessments. Most of the group appeared to be ill informed so I complained there and then publically.

 

After the assessment, the other victims were asked to wait outside so we could have the promised discussion thaat I had to complain to get.

 

During the discussion I was hit by the usual belittling and insulting, being told its basically 4 weeks of interview techniques, confidence builders and the other fake courses they throw at you.

 

I told him that I strongly object to time wasting courses and of my past experiences with then where he claimed “well that wasn't my course“ and that he works with me to put what I want to do first etc etc bragging about being a life coach, telling me I have no confidence, that I'm arrogant and a pesimist

 

I ensured him that I had confidence, I just didn't have confidence in him, his course or the work program.

 

Any further complaints would be wasted on him and will be emailed later today so that I may keep a record of it, if I fail to receive a satisfactory reply it will be forwarded to my mp and dwp.

 

When signing the paperwork, I declined to forfit my number and email. Their data protection agreement stated information may be shared with educational services, and I didn't want those details to be shared at all.

 

Edit: When he claimed I was being hostile, and tried to say that I'm unable to get/keep a job due to my attitude, I assured him my attitude was just. He'd wrongfully booked me in for a "mandatory" appointment without the proper notice, and would of tried to attack my benefits if I did not attend.

He later apologized for this, and I manged to get Thursday off as I have a prior arranged commitment.

Edited May 14, 2013 by irelivent

[Ih8Ingeus]

In short, no. EVERY mandatory activity must be in writing only, either handed to you or posted in good time (2 days allowed). Also it must be worded very specifically and contain sections according to DWP rules.

 

They're allowed to ask you informally, ie verbally, telephone, emal if you'd like to come in - but this is not a mandatory notification so you're under no obligation to do it (though no doubt they'll try and tell you that you are - they're wrong).

 

Thought so. Thanks

[Mr.P]

Edit: When he claimed I was being hostile, and tried to say that I'm unable to get/keep a job due to my attitude, I assured him my attitude was just. He'd wrongfully booked me in for a "mandatory" appointment without the proper notice, and would of tried to attack my benefits if I did not attend.

He later apologized for this, and I managed to get Thursday off as I have a prior arranged commitment.

 

A4e have (had?) a "promise" that they would "treat you how we ourselves would want to be treated" - I suspect Ingeus have something similar or along the lines of "we will treat you with respect"... Having been insulted, threatened, denigrated, and (at times) ignored, I reserved the right to reciprocate in kind. Crap about attitude and/or not doing enough is all part of the usual sales patter - Ask what they are doing or can offer that has any real value, and they go in to denial.

 

As for a "life coach" - Last time I came across one of those, it was some kid barely out of nappies... WTF did he know about life that qualified him to provide any coaching...

[irelivent]

Problem is, when you show them the same sort of attitude in response to theirs they blame you and send you on these stupid courses in an attempt to punish you. One of the people on the course is a good example of this, he declined to do something so his adviser put him on this course, if he didn't comply, he'd of been forced onto a course even further from his address as well.

 

I'm sick of being forced around as if these people know me, they see me once a fortnight and at best send me on a computer to mindlessly search for jobs which I do at home anyway. How can they judge our confidence, personality, character when they don't know us, rather treat us like rabbits. They constantly try to destroy your confidence telling you that you can't take control of your life, you can't get the job you want... You need to get into work before you can take control and get where you want.

 

I realize now that that is utter lies, the only way back into work, and more importantly, into the work you want is to take control and not let them control you.

 

On the lighter side, each Thursday we do "Activities"... climbing, football, other sports etc.

I haven't done sports since I was in school and I'm completely out of fitness for something like this, I'm afraid of heights after a near death experience.. Last time I ran properly I had a horse chasing me in my teenage years and almost died.

 

One of my childhood friends is also on the course who shares similar fears, which were mostly brought on through witnessing my near death experiences, I really don't see how this course is going to be different from any other and I'd rather be sat applying for jobs.

[G4C389]

Okay I have delved into my archives and uncovered the telephone harassment letter which never fails:

 

 

Name & Address

 

 

- HARASSMENT WARNING -

 

WARNING: PROTECTION FROM HARASSMENT ACT 1997

 

WARNING: COMMUNICATIONS ACT 2003. s127.

 

Telephone Number: Your phone number (s)

 

Re: Harassment by Telephone

 

 

 

Date

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Your Reference: I would put your NI number here

 

I am writing in relation to the telephone calls I have received from your organisation, which I deem to be personally harassing.

 

I now require the telephone number(s) listed above to be completely removed from your systems.

 

I am of the view that your calling puts you in breach of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

This is a private telephone line, operated on a contract with the intention of receiving and making personal telephone calls, I have not authorised anyone to receive calls from your organisation using this PRIVATE TELEPHONE LINE.

 

By using this telephone number without my permission you are interfering with my ability to use my own private property for the duration of any call.

 

It is my right to require that this telephone line, which is licensed solely to me, be kept clear for my own personal calls.

 

It is consequently my view that you are committing the tort of interference with contract insofar as for the duration of each call you make to me without my permission, you are interfering with my contractual right to receive and make personal calls on my private telephone line.

 

Continued interference with my contractual rights in this manner will result in legal action.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to the Office of Communications, Trading Standards and the Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable for a substantial fine.

 

Be advised that all telephone calls from your company are recorded.

 

 

Kind Regards

 

 

If a work programme representative continues to call you when you are no longer claiming JSA send this and never discuss anything with them on the phone. 'Thank you for your call. Click'

 

I thought advisers stay in contact with you when you find work, or is that the job of the communications centre staff? If an adviser says threy will stay In contact you is that their own decision?