today's JC experience

[wishface]

Signed on, week 12. After the usual nonsense of being put forward for unsuitable jobs I'm given a special appointment for a fortnight's time. In place of my normal signing time of 9-15am, which I can attend, i'm given - without any say so - 2-20pm. Buses might not run then (i coudln't say for sure at the time). This seems to be completely beyond the jobcentre's understanding.Then they give me the choice of attending next wednesday and I had a minor panic attack. The thought of attending that place more than once a fortnight is beyond my anxiety threshold. I watched myself just refuse refuse refuse the appointment - calmly and politely (as much as one can). I went into anxiety autopilot after which i explained to the advisor that i had been claiming esa due to anxiety/stress (and, i believe, asperger's - or at least symptoms like those suffered by such people) and my medical failed, etc. To be fair the advisor did seem sympathetic, but, as I said to her, anxiety is anxiety; it's not something that can be turned on and off - that's why it's anxiety. I find it really really difficult to cope whn routines are changed on a moment's notice as well as something as straightforward (to everyone else i'm sure) as catching a bus and attending the JC. You might as well ask me to fly a plane or climb everest.Having since looked at the local bus timetable that time will be impossible. The buses run a small and limited service and aren't part of the main local operator's network. I don't really know waht I'm to do at this point. Maybe I should go back to the GP and have a fresh look at ESA (the claim ended in October and i failed the medical and subsequent appeals/tribunal, as iv'e menitoed before, iirc).

[phoenix11]

Wishface, were you given a letter giving the new arrangements? If so, there should be the details of whom to phone on Tuesday with the information about the bus problems. Tell them you will back this up in writing but because of the bank holiday, you cannot get a letter out to them in time.

 

As for finding out about whether you suffer from chronic anxiety as a life-long/ long-term condition (as opposed to being stressed due to being out of work and all the additional problems that brings) or you do have something like Asperger's, it might be best to talk to your doctor.

 

If you cannot get anywhere with him/her, then I would recommend contacting the National Autistic Society for advice (they are very good) and even trying MIND or any other help group you have in your area.

 

You may find they can help with advice on what to do to make sure you're on the right benefits. Also, find out about being seen by the Disability Employment Advisor at the JC. This may be a less stressful experience for you and they may even be able to come up with better options to help find work.

[wishface]

I wasn't given a letter I was told and given an appointment card (presumably in case I forget). They didnt' ask me what would be a convenient time.

There is no support locally for these issues.

I have no desire to see the DA since they are a) not a doctor and b) i have to still claim benefits and c) dealing with the jobcentre at all is a complete nightmare.

[flumps1976]

The process for claiming JSA has changed recently and instead of being asked to attend weekly at week 13 of your claim it is at the discretion of you allocated adviser on how often they feel you need to be seen in the office with regards to your jobsearch.

With regards to your appointment time you are usally offered the first available appointment on the day you would normally be expected to attend for signing. If that time is going to be a problem then call and ask for the appointment to be rearranged although depending on yur reasons and the availability noted on you Job Seekers agreement you may be advised that just wanting to change the appointment could cause some issues surrounding your availability. Do you have restrictions in place for the hours you are available to work?

The DEA is not medically trained but they are more aware of things available for people who have medical conditions that affect their job seeking and can offer support with referring to relevant organisations etc.

If you feel so strongly about this then maybe you should consider reclaiming for ESA.

[wishface]

They would know full well it was going to be a problem because it's on my file where I live and that I rely on buses. Honestly, these peopel are just hopeless. How can it be beyond the wit of man, when booking an appointment for someone (without any consultation thereof), to check these things? There's only one bus service gets me to the jobcentre and if it doesn't run when they want me to attend then I can't attend (unless i turn up 3 hours earlier and sit on the park bench with nothing to do for that time which is bloody absurd).

I'd love to reclaim ESA but that would mean persuading my GP again, whichisnt likely, as well as going through the medical again. I'm sure they'd book me in for that right away, so i'd be back on jobseekers within a month.

Edited May 31, 2011 by wishface

[phoenix11]

The appointment system is often automated - so it cannot take into consideration the problems with buses. You have to explain at the time of being given the appointment that there is no bus service into the JC at that time and ask for the appt to be re-arranged then.

 

If they won't re-arrange it, then you either have to find a way to get in (and I believe if you get a lift from a friend you may be able to claim mileage - perhaps Flumps will confirm or correct me on that), or else you have to write to the manager concerned, with evidence of the bus service (or lack thereof) and that you have no other way of getting in at that time.

 

If you do have to go in by bus and sit around for three hours, then how about spending one hour in the local library on the computer? It's free if you are a member and if you are not, take some proof of ID and of where you live (eg CT bill) and get signed up.

 

There may also be another organisation within the town that helps those on JSA have access to free internet usage for job searches. Again, your JC will tell you about this.

 

As to the rest, I can only reiterate that you may find it a lot more helpful to be referred to the JC DA because they are not there to give you a diagnosis but are there to assist with finding other areas or organisations who may be able to help.

 

If you want to persuade your GP that you need further assessment (and this can be a problem, not all GPs are willing to refer patients believing that they know best), then use the available resources to help you.

 

There are other organisations out there - but only you can contact them and start the ball rolling to get help. Another one who may be able to help and who will call you if you contact them via their website is the Shaw Trust.

[flumps1976]

Phoneix11 you are indeed correct that the appointments are automated on the next available appointment for that day, and therefore unless you actually have something on your Jobseekers Agrement to restrict the hours that you are looking for work amd if you have stated you are available to take up work immediately or within 24 hours then yu would be expected to attend when requested.

Another way of looking at it is how would you get to work? I also live in an area where we have customers living in a rural location with limited public transport and where some allowances can be made it does boil down to your availability.

Under the new regime for claiming JSA you can be called in as often as you advisor feels you need to be seen and depending on how long ago it was that you last worked and for how long you could be left at 2 weekly signing and see you advisor every 4 or 6 weeks but also you could be required to attend weekly.

Can you either obtain or print off a copy of the bus timetable to take with you at your next appointmemt so that future appointmemts can hopefully be arranged so that it is more convenient for you.

[wishface]

Of course I can get hold of a bus timetable - in the same way that the staff booking these appointments could do the same.

 

I'm not sure what part of limited bus service in a rural area is causing the problem here. If i can't get to certain places at certain times what can i reasonably be expected to do? Pay through the nose for a taxi? Fly?

 

This is just ridiculous. The whole system is designed to work against you with advisers that don't listen, don't understand and seem incapable of grasping simple facts. This has nothing to do with my work history nor any consideration of what i'd do if it was a real job (it wouldn't make any difference, apart from the fact i'd be paid a proper wage and not the pittance that comprises JSA, if there's no means to get to a given appointment there's nothing i can do about it).

 

(edited)

Edited June 4, 2011 by ErikaPNP
inappropriate content.

[wishface]

If you do have to go in by bus and sit around for three hours, then how about spending one hour in the local library on the computer? It's free if you are a member and if you are not, take some proof of ID and of where you live (eg CT bill) and get signed up.

 

That's great (i use library facilities all the time).

 

Then what? Sit and stare at the pigeosn for 2 hours? That would send me mental.

[phoenix11]

Wishface - I do understand how demoralising and frustrating it can be - been there wirh myself and seeing a relative who is reg disabled with lifelong condition.

 

However, the system is what it is. The people who work in the JCs are who they are and have to work with that system.

 

You do still have some options to help your own situation, although maybe if you had a friend or mentor to support you getting more help, you'd find it a lot better. Doing things on your own when you feel you're at the bottom of the pile is not easy.

 

But as I said, all we can do is throw suggestions out into the ring and hope that something can click for you.

 

For example, I HAVE had to wait for over an hour because of a mess-up and I simply went to the library and got a couple of books and a mag and read those in the library - ruddy uncomfortable seats too - but it kept me out of the rain and gave me brain something else to think about.

 

There is more help out there for people who have difficulties, either health, financial, or just simply long-term unemployed and seriously struggling to get back into work. All I can say is try and find some support - and just go with the flow when it comes along.

 

Change is scary stuff - but if we can just make the small effort to get on the way to moving out of the rut, it has to be worth while.

[phoenix11]

Also, forgot to say, it is not up to the staff at the JC to get a bus timetable for every possible journey into the centre for the area it covers. Many people still manage to keep their cars whilst on JSA so would not need a bus timetable anyway.

 

It is, unfortunately, your responsibility to explain to the member of staff at the time, who notifies you of the appointment that is booked automatically by the system, that you need a time that is nearer the time of the bus time available.

 

And, presumably, if you have very limited bus times into the JC, the same must be true of the return - so one way or another, I'd assume you have to wait for a bit at one end or the other around the journey?

[Nystagmite]

Sometimes, they have no choice over what appointments they offer you. Or are you suggesting they move everyone elses appointments just to suit you?

[wishface]

Sometimes, they have no choice over what appointments they offer you. Or are you suggesting they move everyone elses appointments just to suit you?

I'm suggesting they book appointments that are in accordance with people's needs. I don't see any reason to be snide. it's totally ridiciulous to just expect someone to stand around for 3 hours.

[Nystagmite]

I'm suggesting they book appointments that are in accordance with people's needs. I don't see any reason to be snide. it's totally ridiciulous to just expect someone to stand around for 3 hours.

 

Which would be impossible if they have to see well over 100 people a day.

[MARTIN3030]

please keep the comments civil.

[phoenix11]

It is an emotive issue and it hurts those who are 'penalised' through no fault of their own.

 

eg, I live in a small town and have to travel to sign on - that costs me £5.20 return every two weeks. Those who live in the town where the JC is have an extra £10.40 a month to spend.

 

Do I feel this is very unfair - youbetcha!!! What can I do about it? Sweet fanny adams!! So getting het up about it only harms lil ol moi - and no-one else. Do I feel aggrieved that I paid self-employed tax and stamps for years and years without any benefit - oh heck I do, but then I was my own mistress then and it kept me going from a very unhappy and distressing situation caused by my ex. I survived and supported my family.

 

Unfortunately, if you have to 'hang around' then that is exactly what has to happen.

 

One thing that I find does help me when I start to 'panic' or feel very depressed that I can't even have the courtesy of a response to the jobs I apply for is to step back and look at the appalling deprevation that others suffer - in this country alone, not to mention in poorer nations.

 

And today, helping my son to cope with the fact that he's probably going to be the next 'victim' of the huge sweeping scythe of benefit cuts, has taught me to look at how people coped before there were any benefits.

 

One example - although you may scoff, it's well worth considering. Less than 100 years ago a cousin of my father was born "the wrong side of the blanket" in the workhouse - and yes, they did still exist then and they were far worse than anything we could imagine now. His mother survived, he survived and his children are flourishing to this day.

 

Rather than focus on what is 'inconvenient' now, I'd encourage everyone to step back and take a good look at the wider picture because sooner or later, whether we are able to get to a JC for a convenient appointment is looking like the least of our worries as prices escalate and basic needs will be difficult for many of us to meet.

 

Be grateful for now, try and find a positive slant in all of this and screw the blighters (financiers) who have been a major contributor to the huge problems that so many of us face.

 

 

*now steps down gracefully from soap box*

 

[wishface]

Which would be impossible if they have to see well over 100 people a day.

 

Why are you making excuses for a broken system? This is all the more reason for them to properly arrange appointments with clients. Just booking appointments arbitarily regardless of whether you live 10 miles or 10 minutes walk away is clearly going to cause problems.

 

I don't really care how many people they have to see, that's their problem. What I care about, and what they are charged (and paid) with doing is dealing with clients properly. If that means swapping appointments around to make it better for all concerned then yes, that's the best way of doing it. The best thing all round however is to consult with the client and book an appointment that is convenient for them. Until then they sign as normal. Using excuses such as 'well if you had a job..' is just fatuous and patronising.

[phoenix11]

Wishface, the system is simply not going to adjust to suit one person - and that's a simple fact.

 

The alternative is to be refused benefits. So, no matter how much you may rant about the unfairness of it all, it ain't going to change.

 

What may change, however, is that your benefits may be stopped - so on the balance of things, if this was happening to me, I know what tune I'd be singing!

[Nystagmite]

My point exactly, Phoenix. My adviser tries to get me in as early as he can; as I'm doing work experience. Unfortunately, getting the first appointment of the day isn't always possible. Thankfully, my manager is understanding about this fact.

[wishface]

Wishface, the system is simply not going to adjust to suit one person - and that's a simple fact.

 

The alternative is to be refused benefits. So, no matter how much you may rant about the unfairness of it all, it ain't going to change.

 

What may change, however, is that your benefits may be stopped - so on the balance of things, if this was happening to me, I know what tune I'd be singing!

I'm not asking the system be changed for one person at all.

[Nystagmite]

What are you asking for then?

[flumps1976]

You still didn't really answer a question I asked.

Do you have any restrictions placed within your Job Seekers Agreement? If you do then you have every right to request that your appointment times fall within those agreed restrictions, if you don't then it is perfectly reasonable for your adviser to book you to whatever appointment time comes up first for the date. As I stated before what would you do if you were in work, ask your employer to change your start or finish time to fit in around your bus timetable?

I'm sorry if comes across sharp but that is how the system works and no matter how much you feel that other peoples appointments should be rearranged so that your adviser can see you when it is convenient for you it isn't going to happen any more than my GP or dentist for example, rearranging someone elses prebooked appointment because I happen to need an appointment that fits around my work times or childcare, I have to work around what is offered to me.

[wishface]

As I said, they know that I rely on the bus service. So yes there obviously restrictions since I can't travel otherwise can I!

 

If i was in work it would be exactly the same thing. Why do you assume otherwise? If an employer suddenly decided, for some inexcplicable reason, I had to be somehwere I couldn't get to at a specific time I couldn't make then he'd be disappointed. And if i was offered a job, which is what you are really trying to ask, that I couldn't attend for the same reasons then I wouldn't accept it.

[Nystagmite]

What do you expect them to do? They can't move everyone's appointments to suit you, can they?

[Nystagmite]

JCP advisers can't change everyone's appointments just because you don't want to wait around. What would you do if you were called in for a job interview at that time? or had to start work at that time?

 

And if i was offered a job, which is what you are really trying to ask, that I couldn't attend for the same reasons then I wouldn't accept it.

 

Which would mean you'd get sanctioned.

Edited June 4, 2011 by ErikaPNP
pm sent to advise member