T Mobile agreed upgrade & 24 month contract with my child - help!!

[vegus]

Evening allSome advice please - I have three lines with TMobile - I am the account holder. TMobile or its agents have been calling one of the lines, where the contract is up for renewal. Spoke to my son, who is under 18, offered him a top of the range upgrade, 24 month contract all for £30 a month - he agreed - well he’s not paying the bill - and a new phone and contract sent.I called TMobile and complained they had acted unlawfully as I am legally responsible for the account and any contract - they advised as he knew the password, they were legally able to take instructions regarding a new contract from him. I was advised this was in the contract????Just to note, I have used son's name as the password for about 8 years - son says he was not asked for a password, but asked his name! This is in my view a red herring, as legally the account holder has to agree any changes - please give some words of advice so I can get a grovelling apology - they have the attitude 'computer says no' and customer is always wrong - I particularly resent the 'manager' I spoke to wanting to tell me about her personal experiences with mobile phone companies - when I object she wants to terminate the call because I am 'being rude' Der!!!Any links to relevant law would be appreciated or wording for complaints letter - I have written, but haven't sent .....Thanks!!

[citizenB]

Have flagged this for site team.

[Blondmusic]

I would contact Consumer Direct on 08454 04 05 06

[ErikaPNP]

I'll start by making it clear that Mobile phone contracts are not my forte. In accepting an upgrade, you are in effect, agreeing to a new contract. You did not make a contract with them, your son did. And, as he is under 18 years of age, it isn't enforceable as far as I understand it.

 

From the CAB:

Mobile phones

 

If you are under 18 you cannot enter into a monthly contract for a mobile phone. However, you can buy a mobile phone which works on a pre-paid voucher system as this does not require a contract.

For information about mobile phones, see Mobile phones.

 

I've accquired some addresses for you for T Mobile which I've pasted below, should you need to write to them after receiving more concrete advise than I can give.

For any account related or customer service queries the address is

 

Customer Services

T-Mobile

6 Camberwell Way

Doxford Technology Park

Sunderland

SR3 3XN

For Legal or finance related queries, the address is:

 

Head Office

Hatfield Business Park

Hatfield

Hertfordshire

AL10 9BW

[cerberusalert]

On 11 May 2010 the new parent company of the merged Orange UK and T-Mobile UK brands was announced as "Everything Everywhere".

 

Email the CEO & complain; Tom.Alexander@orange.co.uk

[vegus]

Thanks for the responses CitizenB - what does 'flagged for site team mean??

 

I would welcome any further advice - please can someone give guidance on my point that I, as the account holder, was not contacted to agree a contract? I want an apology and for them to admit they have acted illegally - to stop this kind of c##p happening to others - cheers,

[cerberusalert]

Complain to their Customer Services & send a copy by email to the CEO. Give a point by point account of your grievances & point out that not only did they breach the Data Protection Act by discussing your a/c with your son but they failed to comply with the Distance Selling Regulations in any case which gives a 'cooling off' period to cancel the contract.

 

If you get any hassle from them make a complaint to your local Trading Standards and the ICO.

[cerberusalert]

what does 'flagged for site team mean??

It just means that a message was left in the moderators forum for other members of the site team to make an input to your thread.

[danielm]

Your son is not the account holder. He cannot therefore agree to anything which is legally binding on your behalf. Further, they have breached data protection by discussing the account with someone other than the account holder without your permission.

 

Dan

[vegus]

Thanks for replies

 

I will go with the DPA - I know they will try to say as he knew the password, they are not liable - can anyone point me in th eright direction to quote the law regarding contracts?

Thanks for your time and keep up the good work - we will will!!!

[danielm]

The law is that if you are not a party to the contract, you have no liability under it. If there was "mistake" as to identity of one of the contracting parties, the contract (if there was one) is void for mistake. It would be for them to sue you and prove you were a party. Good luck to them with that one. The password issue is a red herring. It is irrelevant. As long as you are credible, they would have to be insane to take you on in these circumstances. And if they do, they will lose.

Dan

[vegus]

Thanks danielm

 

T Mobile said the 'contract' would not be cancelled until they have received the mobile back - I told them they could come and get it anytime they want. They said they would send a returns bag - this was tuesday and no bag received as yet.

 

Given they could send a new mobile within 24 hours, I am suprsed they have not sent this returns bag.

 

I will have to cancell my direct debit - I will make my payment, but deduct what they want to charge for for the contract.

 

Any words of wisedom regarding what do with the new phone? should I call and request a returns bag or wait until they respond to my complaint??

 

If they don't respond what then???

 

I am still fuming about this - scared it will effect my credit record , as I need to re-morgage - one of the contracts does not end until next year, so I an't leave them completely.

 

Have a good all and thanks for the responses

 

 

 

 

when my son showed me the text confirming the 'transaction'

[locutus]

Just a note of caution, NOT paying, they will most likely trash your credit file. It's much better to be proactive and deal in writing, asking for a "DEADLOCK" letter so you can escalate the complaint to CISAS.

[Powlo1]

Hi Vegus,

 

It's actually more common than you think, this type of thing happening - I even recall a story of a plumber in someones house agreeing to an upgrade for a customer. The companies don't have a policy in place to counteract this other than using the existing returns/cancellations method (Distance Selling Regulations).

 

You've contacted them to tell them about it and expressed your wish for the sale to be anulled. Its just a matter of waiting for them to send the Royal Mail Special Delivery returns bag, which is sent by first class post (where as your phone would have been sent by Special Delivery because of its value) - you've told them, so you are covered and it should be notepadded on your account. Once they receive it back, their fulfillment department will reverse everything on your account to the way it was previously. Or if you want it resolved asap, call them and tell them you will send it back special delivery and they apply what it cost you, to your account. Do this in conjunction with your complaint - don't wait or it can cause major issues.

 

The one thing to watch out for is if the allowances have changed from the old contract to the new one - if theres a difference in minutes, it can sometimes cause issues when the account is reversed back so watch out for this (whichever tariff had the lowest allowances - stick to them to make sure you don't get any charges or headaches, its better in the longrun and can prevent a lot of hassle later on!) always use the least amount of minutes!

 

As for cancelling the direct debit - its not worth it! If your looking to re-mortgage etc, I would continue paying and reclaim any overpayments (or anything extra) later on, but if you can get it sent back to them before your billing date everything should be fine. If you stop paying or try to pay part-amounts it can cause issues with your credit file (yes they can be sorted, but its quite a bit of hassle).

 

So all in all, 1. send the phone back (either by waiting for their returns bag or sending it at your own cost via Special Delivery) as soon as, before your billing date and 2. follow up about the call to your son with the complaints dept.

 

Hope I've helped!

[Human Writes]

Thanks danielm

 

T Mobile said the 'contract' would not be cancelled until they have received the mobile back - I told them they could come and get it anytime they want. They said they would send a returns bag - this was tuesday and no bag received as yet.

 

Given they could send a new mobile within 24 hours, I am suprsed they have not sent this returns bag.

 

I will have to cancell my direct debit - I will make my payment, but deduct what they want to charge for for the contract.

 

Any words of wisedom regarding what do with the new phone? should I call and request a returns bag or wait until they respond to my complaint??

 

If they don't respond what then???

 

I am still fuming about this - scared it will effect my credit record , as I need to re-morgage - one of the contracts does not end until next year, so I an't leave them completely.

 

Have a good all and thanks for the responses

 

 

 

 

when my son showed me the text confirming the 'transaction'

 

T-Mob are talking nonsense, the "contract" as they refer to it doesn't exist, a third party can't enter into a contract on your behalf and a minor who lacks the capacity to contract certainly can't. I'm not even sure that they have a legal right to have the goods back.

[cerberusalert]

I'm not even sure that they have a legal right to have the goods back.

They have. IIRC they have three months to either collect it or provide pre-paid postage in order to return it. After which time it can be retained.

[cerberusalert]

Found it, it's seems you're correct see; http://www.bis.gov.uk/policies/consumer-issues/buying-and-selling/unsolicited-items

Under the Unsolicited Goods and Services Act 1971, (as amended) it is an offence to demand payment for goods known to be unsolicited, in other words, they were sent to a person without any prior request made by them or on their behalf.

 

Someone who receives goods in these circumstances may retain them as an unconditional gift, and does not have to pay for or return any unwanted goods. Anyone who receives a demand for payment for unsolicited goods should report the matter to their local Trading Standards Department.

 

However, in the case of unsolicited goods received before 1 November 2000, the recipient is required to give notice to the sender to collect them within 30 days, or otherwise to wait for 6 months, before being able to treat the goods as their own property.

[Human Writes]

Found it, it's seems you're correct see; http://www.bis.gov.uk/policies/consumer-issues/buying-and-selling/unsolicited-items

 

Yeah the Unsolicited Goods Act was what I was thinking of, the question becomes whether or not the goods were solicited (it seems the son agreed to the dispatch of the goods so this could be construed as on the ops behalf) and whether a minor without the capacity to contract can solicit goods? Also relevant would be who the goods were addressed too I think. Something the op should take some professional legal advice on if they have access to a legal advice service I think.

[cerberusalert]

As a minor they don't have the legal capacity to enter into a consumer contract.

[Human Writes]

As a minor they don't have the legal capacity to enter into a consumer contract.

 

Minors and other people without capacity can contract to some extent for essentials, food, clothing etc, but a mobile wouldn't fall into that category.Mobile phones don't generally form part of the contract which are agreements for supply of network services, the offer to supply a mobile phone is an inducement to enter the contract, not the contract itself, so can a minor solicit receipt of a phone by agreeing with a T-Mob salesperson that it should be sent out? I suspect not, but it's a difficult one, the text you quoted above mentioned "on behalf of a person", if the minor agreed to receipt of the goods they are not strictly speaking unsolicited because the son on behalf of the op solicited them (if they have capacity), the goods themselves are incidental to the contract which strenghtens the op's position to retain them, but it's something I'm not 100% sure on. Not sure if I'm making sense or just rambling here though.

[locutus]

I think the OP needs to decide what they want, and be very assertive in telling the network how to resolve the complaint to their satisfaction. Preferably in writing.

 

If they want to keep the phone, the OP will have a tougher time than if they're willing to return it. Most of the threads on here, the network seem to hold the customers credit file to ransom. If the OP doesn't want the phone, it will be a simple letter, and if the OP no longer wishes to remain with T-Mobile, request their PAC and move to a new network.

 

If the OP DOES want the new phone and as it's T-Mobile in the wrong here, I can see this thread becoming a lot longer, but it will probably go in favour of the OP!

[vegus]

Thanks to all for their advice.

 

I emailed my complaint to the director and have had a call from a rep, who 'confirmed' that in the terms and conditions, anyone with access to the password, can agree a new contract etc. Interestingly, only the aaccount holder can agree to terminate the contract!!

I queried you could not have one rule for closure and another for incurring costs on an account.

 

The person I spoke to could not immediately confirm what section of my 'contract' with T Mobile gives these terms and conditions, agreed they would 'find' this clause and call me back.

I asserted I was not made aware in writing when I was asked to give a password on the account - She clearly said in the converstion it was unfortunate that I was not made aware of the condition that anyone with the password could access the account information and agree a new 'contract'.

Doesn't this contradic itself??

She has agreed to revert the account in question (one of three accounts with them) back to its original status and will send a bag for me to return the phone, but I will have to pay for post and packing!

Oh thank you so much T mobile for your help!!!

I am fed up with this and want to come out fighting - I have been to 'nice'. I want them to admit they are wrong and do not have a contract with me - I have advised I will seek legal advice, but Can't afford this - instead I am depending on all Codgers expertise on this one.

What should I do now??? X

[locutus]

"Codgers?!?!!":lol: I'm presuming spellcheck doensn't have Caggers in it's dictionary... yet

 

Well, if you are not happy, write to them (email is good, just make sure you keep a copy!) and state you feel this is unsutable. Tell them that the error is theirs, your son doesn't know the password, but to keep it memorable you used your sons name, and you would be well within your rights to keep the phone as Under the Unsolicited Goods and Services Act 1971, (as amended) it is an offence to demand payment for goods known to be unsolicited, in other words, they were sent to a person without any prior request made by them or on their behalf. Someone who receives goods in these circumstances may retain them as an unconditional gift, and does not have to pay for or return any unwanted goods. Tell them if they do not agree to (whatever you want as a solution) you would like them to send you a DEADLOCK letter so you can escalate the complaint to CISAS or your local county court.

[cerberusalert]

terms and conditions, anyone with access to the password, can agree a new contract etc.

A minor cannot enter into a consumer credit contract.

 

Have a word with your local Trading Standards.

[vegus]

WHOOPS! Sorry Caggers - should have read before I submitted!!!

 

I haven't received a call back - maybe this was because I questioned if I would receive a written response to my complaint, where the rep stated she would include all th einformation in this.

 

I will email them back, expressing my unhappiness at their initial response, quote contract is not inforceable as I was not a party, further was completed with a child, who did not kno wthe password, but told the operater his name.

 

I will ask them, by return, to forward me the contract I agreed to which said anyone with knowledge of the passwod could authorise activety on the account, apart from closure of the account (all in their favours),

ask them to respond to breech of data protection and quote the unsolicited goods act, I refuse to pay for the goods return and want a DEADLOCK letter so you can escalate the complaint to CISAS or your local county court.

 

I will keep you updated - Given T Mobile do not have any security system in place to prevent the password becoming known, ie you call they want the password, not the first or last letter, but want you to blurt the whole word out, how can this be a security measure??

 

Buggers - I am not taking this lying down - suppose I was a little old dear who was uanble to assert themselves? Can you imagine how many people they have 'persuaded' in this way??