MBNA and Arrow Global - claim form received - bal prob all unlawful charges ***Struck Out With Costs***

[MrHat]

I was recently threatened by Wilkin Chapman Grange/Arrow Global for an old MBNA debt.

 

I thought it was statute barred so sent the letter only to find out that I was mistaken as a payment was made in 2007.

 

Following that I sent a SAR letter (with £10 postal order) and specifically requested a copy of the signed agreement.

 

Within the docs I have received, there were only system logs (no correspondance), my recent letters (SB and SAR).

 

No signed agreement which the said they do not hold. They suggested I could get a copy if I sent a CCA request.

 

Should I now send a CCA request?

 

I actually remember when the agreement was made - it was outside a football stadium in 1999 and they tempted me with a free t-shirt on a cold night. I gave insufficient details, they wrote and asked for more, I ignored then they sent me the card anyway. I doubt I ever agreed t&cs but was in financial difficulty so started to use the card.

 

Any comment on this situation and what move I should make?

[rebel11]

Hi Mr

 

I would send a CCA Request.

 

Have a read of number 5

in my signature.

[MrHat]

Ok will do.If they have a valid agreement then sobeit.I have my doubts as don't think I ever made a proper agreement with them. It was from back in the days when they were issuing credit cards to household pets!

[MrHat]

I assume that if the original signed copy of the agreement exists, it will be held by MBNA.I am unclear as to whether Arrow have bought the debt or are acting on behalf of MBNA. What is the usual situation with regards to MBNA/Arrow Global? Does anyone know?

[rebel11]

Once you get the agreement then remove all personal details, scan and post. Some of the required info might be missing.

 

Ok will do.If they have a valid agreement then sobeit.I have my doubts as don't think I ever made a proper agreement with them. It was from back in the days when they were issuing credit cards to household pets!

[rebel11]

If the debt has been bought, then a letter of assignment should have been sent to you.

 

I assume that if the original signed copy of the agreement exists, it will be held by MBNA.I am unclear as to whether Arrow have bought the debt or are acting on behalf of MBNA. What is the usual situation with regards to MBNA/Arrow Global? Does anyone know?

[MrHat]

Should I send the CCA request to Arrow or MBNA?If I send to Arrow, do they then have to request it from MBNA or will they write back and say that they don't have it and advise me to send a second CCA request directly to MBNA

[MrHat]

Furthermore - should I sent a SAR to MBNA directly too? Did I make the wrong move sending a SAR to Arrow Global? A bit confused here!

[MrHat]

Have had a look through the SAR info I received and it looks like Arrow purchased this debt.In any case, should I do a CCA request to both Arrow and MBNA or just Arrow?TIA

[MrHat]

I think I have found answers to by queries above.

 

Have sent a CCA Request to Arrow and added the following in:

 

 

Ifit is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty uponyou to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absoluteassignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contendthat you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement,you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment isof both rights and duties.

[MrHat]

Have now received a letter from Arrow saying that they 'do not accept that htey are the creditor' but the are 'willing to assist obtaining that which has been requested'.

 

They have also suspended collection activity pending provision of docs. They returned my £1 po

 

 

Do I need to do anything at this stage?

 

Thanks in advance

[MrHat]

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

I have been reading other threads so think I am on the right lines.

 

My question is - bearing in mind that they say they have 'suspended collection activities' do I need to bother sending an 'account in dispute' letter

 

Also, if they have no signed agreement, has the law changed meaning that I am screwed either way potentially?

Edited June 7, 2011 by MrHat
bad punctuation

[MrHat]

bumping this as still looking for guidance on my last question

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

The account in dispute letter is sent if they fail to supply the CCA within the limit of 12+2 days.

[MrHat]

Today I have received a signed copy of the credit agreement and all looks in order. They asking for me to send repayment proposals to them by 27th July.

 

Any advice on what to do next?

 

I have a little capital so could possibly pay it off but do not want to get ripped off.

 

Also encloded was a monthly statement from 2007 which shows a late fee of £12 and an overlimit fee of £12. Id imagine that a great deal of the balance would have been fees especially considering that the closing account shows that the balance is c£550 over the limit of £700.

 

PPI is not mentioned so I don't think I had that.

 

Is it worth making an offer for full and final settlement?

 

HELP!!!!

[citizenB]

I would be inclined to ask for a refund of the default fees/charges first.... then suggest a full and final settlement. Although as far as I know.. MBNA are usually pretty reluctant to enter into one of those.

 

You can find a spread sheet and template letters in the CAG library which are linked at the top of each page

[MrHat]

Thanks.

 

Are MBNA within their rights to charge £12x2 month after month? If I ask for these charges to be deducted, can they just say 'no'? I have no idea how much these charges amount to as only have one statement and my SAR to Arrow did not yield any statements.

 

Just want to find out if I have a leg to stand on or whether it is a case of hoping that they will be nice?

[citizenB]

Mr Hat, have you sent MBNA a Subject Access Request ? It will cost you £10.00.. you can ask for statements plus any other informaiton they hold on you in respect of your association with them, from inception (although I guess you will only receive 6 years worth). That way you can check how many charges have been applied to the account.

 

Are you saying they are applying 2 lots of default charges @ £12.00 a time to the balance ?

[MrHat]

The account defaulted 5 years ago so there's little point in getting 6 years worth of docs back. Also, Arrow could issue proceedings in that time.

 

I only have one statement but recall that these charges were added on many statements.

 

The 'Over limit fee' would have been charged several times as the account was over the agreed limit for months if not years. According to Equifax, I had 19 reported late payments before the default. I think £12 'late fee' would have been charged each time. Moreover, I think that it was these charges that put me over the limit and triggered further charges.

 

Where do I stand on these? If a proportion of the balance is made up of fees, does this give me negotiating power?

 

This really is a horrible account. Card was given to me when a student, my limit was £700 and I reckon I've paid thousands into the account over the years and I still owe!

[citizenB]

The account defaulted 5 years ago so there's little point in getting 6 years worth of docs back. Also, Arrow could issue proceedings in that time.

 

I only have one statement but recall that these charges were added on many statements.

 

The 'Over limit fee' would have been charged several times as the account was over the agreed limit for months if not years. According to Equifax, I had 19 reported late payments before the default. I think £12 'late fee' would have been charged each time. Moreover, I think that it was these charges that put me over the limit and triggered further charges.

 

Where do I stand on these? If a proportion of the balance is made up of fees, does this give me negotiating power?

 

This really is a horrible account. Card was given to me when a student, my limit was £700 and I reckon I've paid thousands into the account over the years and I still owe!

 

Well, yes I would say that it does give you an edge if the outstanding amount is mainly made up of charges. It would help enormously though if you were able to see just how much of it is.

 

I will try and find some help for you.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

The only way I can see is to get a SAR done asap, it's

well worth the ten quid,what do you think CB?

[citizenB]

Hello Brig.. yes.. IMHO I would send the SAR.. just to see what they do have by way of statements.

 

I had another thought, perhaps you could just simply ask them, in the absence of statements.. how have they arrived at the arbritary sum they are demanding. You could point out that you are aware that a goodly proportion of this sum is made up of charges, which you would be minded to counter claim for in the event of any litigation.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Good point I missed that, good idea.

Brig.

[dx100uk]

you really need to get ALL the statements by SAR.

i thought you sais you already had these?

 

you need to look at the payment history up to and inc this poss phantom payment that they claim makes the debt not SB'ed

 

dont worry about these dca's, they have no legal powers

and , if as you say, there are lots of charges

they will never go near a court

 

that prob why mbna sold it on.

 

dx

[ims21]

Hi MrHat

 

You would be surprised at how quickly those charges add up, especially when you consider that you will get interest on them as well...compounded.

 

Personally I would not be giving in on this. You will be surprised at how much they owe you.

 

I would SAR the original creditor to get a full transaction history of the account. From there you will be able to establish the charges and work out a clam amount.

 

If (and I have to say its a big if) action is taken against you then you have an immediate counterclaim. They would be foolish to issue against you if most of what they claim you owe is charges.

 

My advice is get that SAR done as soon as possible.

 

Regards

 

ims