car taken , and im threatened with taser gun. MM help

[gutted-stu]

hi all , need a bit of guidance although i have read some posts and will follow up on some of the advice there,

 

 

my partner took out a loan with mobile money , she got to the end of the loan

and they said she could have another and as it was before xmas she aggreed,

 

after the xmas period she had lost her job and struggled to keep up with the monthly payments although she doubled up the payment the following month,

 

she received a letter last week saying that if she didnt pay on time she would have to pay £12 extra ,

the date which they stated was 26th april to have it all brought up to date ,

she phoned them and said she would have it all on the 28th they were fine with this over the phone,

 

a couple of days later, [today] we heard a truck outside at roughly 1am!

 

there was then a knock at the door , i went down to a big burly bloke

he asked for my partner , i told him she wasnt here

 

he replied we've come for the car - so give me the key!!

 

i told him he's not getting the keys and goodluck getting the car as it was securly locked in the rear car park which he already knew.

i closed the door on him and put some clothes on grabbed the keys and got into the car

and reversed it so it blocked the pathway of the incoming recovery vehicle

so my side was against his rear and remained in the car ( i did this as i had read somewhere about this tactic) and locked it all up from inside.

 

i then see my misses appear asking him why they had come etc

 

he said he's reposessing the car

my partner asked him for some kind of proof as she hadnt received anything in the post to say they would becoming,

he refused to show anything - she phoned the police.

 

the police arrived and had a chat with my partner and told her that they had a right to take the car

and that if i didnt get out the car they would arrest me ,

 

Again my partner asked for some kind of proof they can take the car

 

so the agent showed a letter with the title "repossession instructions & authority"

this was the only letter shown to us and the police

 

the police officer stated they were well in their rights to take the car,

 

the police officer came up to the window and told me if i didnt get out the car they would arrest me on breach of the peace ,

i refused to budge so he arrested me from outside the car and read me my rights, he asked again for me to open up ,

i refused again so they threatened to smash the window

 

then the recovery agent smashed the passenger side window,

 

the officer came round and unlocked the passenger door through the smashed windows and told me to get out ,

i still refused and told him that i hadnt been given enough evidence to show they had any right to take the car so im staying where i am,

 

the officer then took out his taser gun and threatened to use it if i didnt move

(was in shock having a red beam shining in my eyes like i was getting lined up by a sniper) - but i still wouldnt move ,

 

i only got out when i heard my partner screaming at the agent who had just pushed her - i got out to check if she was ok ,

at which point i was then arrested ,

 

i was told in the police car that they had the right to take the car , which they did take eventually ,

 

after the agent had gone i was de arrested and i came straight into the house to find some help of some kind on this site.

 

i have read that they should of shown the bos before taking the car and if they didnt that it might be theft of vehicle,

 

this was not presented so we phoned the officer up and all he said was that he had the relevant documentation on him

and to deal with it in the morning , by which time im pretty sure will be too late

 

im not sure what more info i should be puttin on this so if needed i will reply with relevant info ,

 

but would really appreciate some help on this matter

 

she is going to phone up oft tomorrow also mobile money asking for the bos as she doesnt recall seeing one

 

thx

 

a very shaken stu

Edited April 15, 2011 by dx100uk
edited for clarity - dx

[postggj]

was a new bos signed for the new loan

[gutted-stu]

thx for replying so quick , ill ask in the morning and let you know as my partner is asleep , me on the other hand im still fuming and unable to sleep

what would it mean if a new one wasnt done for the 2nd loan ?

[postggj]

Well they would not be able to take the car as it would be a fixed term loan agreement rather that a hp agreement

 

The bos would have to have been registered in the high court within seven days i believe

[gutted-stu]

ive spoke to her and she has said that when she took out the new loan the fella at MM ripped an old agreement up and got her to sign a new one , she doesnt know wether this or the previous one was the BOS , she had never recieved a copy. she is looking through all the papers ( piles of it ) for anything that is related to MM to see exactly what was given to her .

she spoke to them today on the phone and asked for the car back they told her she can have it back when she pays £1700 , she said she only had to pay £170 to bring it up to date and this was discussed with them on previous phone call to them and they agreed to let her settle it on the dates on my 1st post.

the original loan was for £700 pounds she had come to the end of that when she had the other which was for £ 300 , she has been paying just under £200 every month since the 1st loan and has only missed jjust after the xmas period which she then payed £ 450 the following month to bring it up to date .

 

im also considering putting in a official complaint to the police on the way they handled the situation as i consider them to have gone over the top especially with the tazer gun pointed at me , i did nothing wrong , i wasnt abusive, my actions wasnt threatening i just told them i wasnt moving untill i seen the proof they could take the car , i was protecting what was ours, and as i said before the only reason i did get out was because my partner had screamed , she was man handled and has woke up today with all of her top arm coverered in bruises as if someone had wrapped a 3 inch rope around her arm tightly .

im just wondering if anyone else has dealings like this with police and knows if i stand any ground on anything

thx a slightly calmer stu

 

oh yeh we have aquirred a new car thanks to a friend who said we can pay when were bit better flushed , so getting the car back for purposes of what we need is no longer a priority but we still want the car back as we feel that this is just plain old thuggery , and we have never even thought about not paying what we owe

[postggj]

First step is to write a letter to these thugs and demand to see a copy of the bill of sale

 

you can check if its registered with the high court but that costa about £50

 

to be lawfull the bos needs to be registered within 7 days

 

if not its unlawful Recession of contract and you will get your car back pplus all payments made

[postggj]

The statutory requirements for a bill of sale to be valid.

 

1. The bill of sale must be in the correct form and contain the prescribed information contained in the 1882 act.

 

2. The bill of sale must be registered.

 

If either requirement is not met, the bill of sale is void (that is, the security will not be enforceable, although the underlying debt may be).

 

Form and Content of a Bill of Sale.

 

The language for some of the wording is is archaic, which most ordinary people today wouldn’t understand. Nevertheless, if not in the prescribed form, it renders the bill of sale void.

 

It will be rendered void if it does not contain:

• The date of the bill
  
• The names and address of the parties
  
• A statement of Consideration
  
• An acknowledgement of the receipt of the advance
  
• An assignment by way of security of particular goods, capable of description
  
• Statements of the sum secured, the rate of interest, and the instalments by which repayments are made,
  
• Agreed terms for the maintenance of security
  
• A clause limiting the grounds of seizure to one of the following:
  
  • Default with the repayments or any covenant of the bill
    
  • Bankruptcy or seizure of the goods for rent, rates, or taxes.
    
  • If the granter fraudulently removes goods, or arranges for their removal
    
  • If execution has been levied against the goods
    

   

  [*]A schedule containing a description of the chattels

  [*]Execution (signature) by the granter (borrower)

  [*]A statement in the form of the 1882 act

  [*]Attestation by a witness not a party to the bill

  [*]Registration

The consideration is the amount the borrower receives for the bill of sale; NOT the sum secured by the bill (which would include interest and costs). For example, if the agreement is regulated by a consumer credit agreement, it would have to use the amount that was advanced to the borrower BEFORE charges, costs and interest.

 

The bill of sale must contain a statement in the form provided by the act. Here is the wording: http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?LegType=All+ Legislation&title=bills+o f+sale&Year=1882&searchEn acted=0&extentMatchOnly=0 &confersPower=0&blanketAm endment=0&sortAlpha=0&TYP E=QS&PageNumber=1&NavFrom =0&parentActiveTextDocId= 1055715&ActiveTextDocId=1 055738&filesize=2273 . This is often missing.

 

If a credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act is secured on a bill of sale, and the bill of sale is void, the credit agreement may also void by virtue of the act, although the law on this is VERY unclear. I would recommend getting into contact with the national debt line on this issue.

 

So. You’ve got a copy of the bill of sale, and it is a rare bill of sale that complies in all respect with the acts.

 

Can it be enforced?

 

Registration

 

A bill of sale can only be enforced if it was properly registered. Since this is an expensive and difficult process, it is rare that this actually happens. However, failure to register the bill of sale renders it void, and so renders any security on goods void.

 

Consequently, before allowing any creditor to gain possession of your goods, ask to see a registered copy of the bill showing the supreme courts seal.

 

You can also call the national debt line, and ask them how to search the registry yourself.

 

Requirements of the consumer credit act

 

Most bills of sales are also regulated by the consumer credit act. Such a security will be no more valid than the consumer credit agreement. The requirements of the consumer credit act include:

• A description of the security should be included/embodied in the credit agreement
  
• The bills of sale must be presented to the debtor at the time the credit agreement was signed
  
• The creditor will normally have to issue a default notice before calling in the debt.
  
• The terms of the bills of sale must be consistent with the credit agreement.
  
• The agreement must not be extortionate ( if made before 2007) or constitute an unfair relationship(after 2007)
  

All the other, normal requirements of the consumer credit act apply. It is also possible to apply for a time order to prevent the repossession of goods under the consumer credit act 1974.

 

Enforcement of Bills of sale

 

Before you are required to give up your property, they must (if you ask for it) provide a valid bill of sale exists, that bears the stamp of the Supreme Court.

 

However, repossession does not need to be carried out by a certified or professional “enforcement officer” given this, the professional conduct of those actually repossessing goods is of serious question, AND I ADVISE ANYBODY when presented by a bill of sale to call the police immediately, informing them that you are afraid of a breach of the peace and asking for their attendance.

 

MANY THANKS TOMTERM

Edited April 15, 2011 by postggj

[gutted-stu]

postggj i cant thank you enough for the replies they are giving me the knowledge i need for now, i have been to police station tonight to report the officers behaviour etc and i have asked the inspector to talk with the officer to see which peice of paper he had been shown to come to the decision to let them take the car , i will find out next week . oh and no further action will be taken regarding the officer as he was rightful to pull out the taser according to the protocol

we are also going to the MM office monday to see this so called BOS and any other letters they have that warrants them to do what they have done, i will update when i get the information . but for now thx for youre time and have a goodweekend

 

i was attemtpting to put up the only letter they had shown given to us on this reply but i need to have posted more before the forum allows it

i dont really want to troll the forums and put anything just to do this so is there another way round this plse

Edited April 15, 2011 by gutted-stu

[raydetinu]

the Police defo acted incorrectly and you should of got at least an apology; It is a civil matter and they should not of got involved except to to tell them to go away or there was going to be a breach of the peace, not you.

I would go back tp police station and see the duty inspector and possibly make a complanit to IPCC.

They cannot take the goods anyway if it is on private land, incl driveway, they would need a court order. BOS would have to registered and shown to obtain warrant from court.

Good luck and keep at it, I think you will win but may take a while.

Say the goods were inside your house ( they do not have the right to enter and take it, without a court order.

[dx100uk]

disgusting actions

 

yet again another repro guy that thinks they are a bailiff.

 

THEY HAVE NO LEGAL POWERS WHATSOEVER TO TAKE ANYTHING

 

dx

[terriersaregreat]

Has your partner had the bruises to her arm witnessed? How did the bruises get inflicted? These thugs are getting more and more shocking. Have you told the police about the bruises? If he was a private bailiff you can report him to trading standards, if from the court, firstly the court and then the Court Service. I hope he's a private bailiff as Trading standards are more helpful then the Courts.

 

Why oh why do our police force always support these thugs? It appears that they see the word bailiff and automatically assume so much. I know I've been there too!

[postggj]

whenyou go ans see the bos, get a photocopy

 

AMYJ

 

your quote

 

you can sue him for around 15000

compensation Against a police officer works out to about £250 per minute

 

ime talking unlawful arrest/detention

[raydetinu]

Amyj: go and read up on a few things before posting. BOS, CCA etc.

We all have opinions and wish to offer advice but having a go at the OP does not help anybody, whats done is done.

Its a legal thing if the BOS is unregistered they have no righrt to take anything.

[dx100uk]

Dx100 the bailiff gets his authority from the loan company.he dosnt need to be certificated to repo a car on like a log book loan.tge contract says if you don't pay tge creditor (lender) can empower a agent of his to collect tge car.you will find there is no training or certificates to repo a car.it's just very old law. Otherwise you need a court order.but in this case no court order is needed.I bealeave with a log book loan you actually sign possession over to tge company until you pay

 

wrong......

 

 

they have no legal power to take anything

 

they are NOT bailiffs from a court

 

they are the same as DCA's - they have NO LEGAL POWERS .

 

i notice you are going around lots of threads

posting a lot of wrong info and trying to wind people up.

 

please refrain from doing this else moderation will follow.

 

dx

[ST220]

Having read the OP, two things immediately stand out!

 

Firstly, I believe that you have a claim against the police for unlawful arrest and false imprisonment. To arrest you for a breach of the peace a police officer must have reasonable cause in that you must have been see to have used threatening, abusive or insulting words and behaviour or disorderly behaviour or displayed any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,

within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress.

 

I'm assuming that you were just sat quietly in a locked vehicle and if so you were not commiting any of the above and therefore not commiting any offence under section 5 POA!!

 

 

The second thing is that the BOS does indeed give MM power to SEIZE the vehicle, but only after all the relevent default notices etc have been supplied to the debtor. What they can't do is REMOVE the vehicle once they have seized it for 5 clear days.

 

Possession to be taken under bill of sale under certain circumstances only.

8. —(1) Personal chattels included in a bill of sale made or given by way of security for the payment of money by the grantor thereof shall not be liable to be seized or taken possession of by the grantee for any other than the following causes:

 

(a) if the grantor makes default in payment of the sum or sums of money thereby secured at the time therein provided for payment or in the performance of any covenant or agreement contained in the bill of sale and necessary for maintaining the security;

(b) if the grantor becomes a bankrupt or suffers the chattels or any of them to be distrained for rent, property tax or otherwise;

© if the grantor fraudulently either removes or suffers to be removed from the premises the chattels or any of them;

(d) if the grantor does not without reasonable excuse upon demand in writing by the grantee produce to him his last receipts for rent and property tax; and

(e) if execution has been levied against the goods of the grantor under process of any court.

(2) All personal chattels seized or taken possession of under or by virtue of any bill of sale shall remain on the premises where they were so seized or taken possession of, and shall not be removed or sold until after the expiration of 5 clear days from the day on which they were so seized or taken possession of.

 

What I would do next is get an injunction to stop them from selling the car from your local county court. If granted this will give you time to put a claim together against MM!

 

BTW Under a BOS they don't have any legal powers to remove a vehicle from private property. They can only remove if parked on public property or a public highway.

[Jasper1965]

IMO Not only were you unlawfully arrested but the police officer has been an accessory to theft of a vehicle and criminal damage and this matter should be taken up through your local police professional standards dept. asap.

The attempted repossession was a civil matter between yourselves and the repo guy until the moment the window was smashed at which point it became criminal, the police really do need educating on repossession law.

[pebbles71]

subbing

[ST220]

IMO Not only were you unlawfully arrested but the police officer has been an accessory to theft of a vehicle and criminal damage and this matter should be taken up through your local police professional standards dept. asap.

The attempted repossession was a civil matter between yourselves and the repo guy until the moment the window was smashed at which point it became criminal, the police really do need educating on repossession law.

 

+1 I agree 100%

[kittex]

it should only cost 5 quid...i got a copy a few months ago...enclose a stamped address envelope......