Do I have to finish late?

[pmj91]

I work as a van driver. I work every other saturday. My shift ends at 6pm on sat. Almost every time, the shift will runover to between 7 and 9pm. I don't mind doing this every now and then to help out when its busy....but every time? I have plans, commitments, things to do outside work.

 

Do I have to work late? Or can I tell them that when it hits 6pm, I'm gone??

 

[Conniff]

No doubt your contract will say words to the effect that 'a resonable amount of overtime is expected'. You cannot, however, be made to work more than 48 hours per week unless you 'opted out' and signed to that effect. If you did sign to say you would do all the overtime god sends, then it can be recinded.

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/WorkingHoursAndTimeOff/DG_10029426

[elpulpo]

As Conniff points out, to answer the question we need to know what your contract says about your working hours.

Do you have a written statement of the terms & conditions of employment?

How long has this been going on?

[pmj91]

The contract says:

 

Your contracted hours are 15 per week or ........ per year, together with such additional hours as may be required to meet the needs of the business.

 

It's been going on for at least half a year.

Surely they can't just demand that you finish all the work if there is too much for your shift? What if you have to pick up your child, be there to meet the boiler man, pick up your dad from the airport, be at your mates birthday party that you arranged 2 weeks ago? Just because they can't be bothered to employ enough staff to get it done through the week.

It's not that they say - ah this saturday, we want you to work overtime until 8pm instead of 6pm. It's that on friday, some staff (which may or may not include the manager) will make you aware that the next day is going to be extremely busy, implying that you won't be going home on time.

[Sidewinder]

"...such additional hours as may be required to meet the needs of the business"

[/Quote]

 

And therein lies the problem.

 

So what you now need to do is to log the precise finish times, make notes as to how many drops or jobs you have each week, and make a case as to how 'unreasonable' the workload is.

 

You will then need to submit a grievance to ask for the actual working hours to be looked at in the light of your contract. Stress that you don't mind at all any unexpected work which might require you to work additional time in order to complete the job, however over X number of weeks your finish time has never been before [Time] and has been as late as [Time], and you feel that this is getting to the state where you find that the expectations are becoming unreasonable.

 

You have to be careful, or in the current environment the employer might well need to have staff who are flexible, however you can also have a reasonable expectation to be able to enjoy life outside of work too. It may be that the employer needs to look at the contracted hours and extend them, or you could find yourself strictly working the 15 hours per week and the other jobs going to somebody else. I presume that you are paid for the extra time?

[pmj91]

Thanks for the reply sidewinder.

That sounds like a sensible option and I have all the necessary paperwork for the last 6 months to check my finish times. I am paid for the extra time and I like to do it. What I don't like is when I have a plan to do something for 2 weeks in advance (regardless of whether it is extremely important or a trivial night out at the pub) and the day comes and I'm lumped with masses of work that are completely impossible to complete in the given time.

[Sidewinder]

I agree entirely. At the end of the day we all need to work, and where the employer is reasonable, we are generally happy to do a bit more to help the business, but we also need time away from it and it is not acceptable if we can't plan lives outside of work for fear that we may have to do overtime. It is about where the line of reason is drawn.

 

I worked 62 hours last week and am paid for 38. Whilst my position needs a certain flexibility, and I have to consider the needs of the business to operate effectively, there would come a point at which I would have to say that my workload is unreasonable, and if I was finding myself constantly unable to make family events or social arrangements in my own time, then I know what I would do!

[pmj91]

Yes thats right, this is the problem I have. I find it deeply unnacceptable because its been like this for so long and nothing has been done about it. As it happens, it will hopefully no longer be an issue for me soon due to major shift changes. But until then, I can't push any more arrangements out of the way becuase of this.

 

It seems like employers are allowed to literally dictate exactly when they want you there regardless of why you can't be. As long as they keep to the 48hours, it seems to be perfectly acceptable and they don't seem to have to give you any notice. Does this mean that they could call you up in the morning one day and say be here in 2 hours on your week off whilst your 100 miles away from work or your fired for breaching the contract? Clearly, thats ridiculous and unreasonable and I'd hope no-one would ever try that - but would there even be any protection for the employee....even when it's that ridiculous?

[Giggins]

Miltonguyphil - My opinion is that sidewinder is right on the money. It is what is "reasonable".

 

From what you have said, I believe the hours are [unreasonable] given the fact they run over virtually all the time.