Welcome Finance : Reconstitued agreement, but is it valid?

[danielman2]

HI

 

I got a reconstituted credit agreement from welcome, this contains very little detail and

 

the name is wrong e,g on the agreement it says C Smith when my name is D Smith

 

Is this still valid

[sick of welcomw]

to my mind no it isnt..but im no expert

[rebel11]

The name and address have to be the same as in the Original Agreement. It might be worth sending a SAR Request, to see where they've copied the wrong data from.

 

Have a read of Carey v HSBC (2009)

 

It's lengthy, http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2009/3417.html

[danielman2]

Thanks for replies guys, will have read through careyvhsbc later

 

Alot for me to take on I think, anyone know a solicitor that would take this on for me.

[dadofholly]

Thanks for replies guys, will have read through careyvhsbc later

 

Alot for me to take on I think, anyone know a solicitor that would take this on for me.

 

Are you able to to scan and upload the agreement - removing your personal details - agreement number etc. But leave in figures.

 

There may be other issues with it. Also was there any insurances taken out on the agreement such as PPI etc?

[rebel11]

Hi Daniel

 

You really don't need a solicitor. If you keep reading the threads about Reconstituted Agreements, then you'll get the knowledge you need. There is a summary at the bottom of Carey v Hsbc (2009), it gives you the key points. There are other summaries on the net.

 

Thanks for replies guys, will have read through careyvhsbc later

 

Alot for me to take on I think, anyone know a solicitor that would take this on for me.

[danielman2]

Are you able to to scan and upload the agreement - removing your personal details - agreement number etc. But leave in figures.

 

There may be other issues with it. Also was there any insurances taken out on the agreement such as PPI etc?

 

here it is , this is 2 loans into one, do they have to send me the cca for the other 2 loans??? agreement number, none? never took out ppi thank god

 

[dadofholly]

Am bit confused.

 

Are you saying that they have reconstituted 2 agreements on the above document OR was this an agreement paying off a previous agreement with an additional amount as a loan?

 

If there maybe other paperwork i would advise submitting an SAR to Welcome. Follow the link below and follow the instructions and using the template letter with your own details.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?262417-Suggested-SAR-temp-for-Welcome.

[danielman2]

Am bit confused.

 

Are you saying that they have reconstituted 2 agreements on the above document OR was this an agreement paying off a previous agreement with an additional amount as a loan?

 

If there maybe other paperwork i would advise submitting an SAR to Welcome. Follow the link below and follow the instructions and using the template letter with your own details.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?262417-Suggested-SAR-temp-for-Welcome.

 

I did a sar and all they sent me was a cca for an old loan of 5k and a statement starting 15k

 

what they are saying is I had 2 loans running for 10k then I got another loan for 15k,

10k paid off 2 loans with 5k cash = current 15k above

[dadofholly]

Ok - well my first impression in that case is that it's toilet paper. Am sure they can not reconstitute two outstanding loans into one agreement - if thats what they have done.

 

Would both agreements have had the same arrangement fee and interest? dont think so.

 

My view is that if they tried to rely on that in court they would struggle - but we could do with the views of someone more experienced than me to confirm.

 

If nobody comes back to you on this in next day or so drop me a pm - i will then try and get someone to have a look for you.

 

Did they send you anything else with the SAR reply?

[danielman2]

Ok - well my first impression in that case is that it's toilet paper. Am sure they can not reconstitute two outstanding loans into one agreement - if thats what they have done.

 

Would both agreements have had the same arrangement fee and interest? dont think so.

 

My view is that if they tried to rely on that in court they would struggle - but we could do with the views of someone more experienced than me to confirm.

 

If nobody comes back to you on this in next day or so drop me a pm - i will then try and get someone to have a look for you.

 

Did they send you anything else with the SAR reply?

 

okay great, I have a letter from them saying thankyou for your sar request and they sent me nothing else

[dadofholly]

So is the above ALL they sent you in response to an SAR request?

 

Was it a CCA request you sent or an SAR? How much did you pay?

[danielman2]

So is the above ALL they sent you in response to an SAR request?

 

Was it a CCA request you sent or an SAR? How much did you pay?

 

yes ALL they sent for 10 pound sar request.

 

Is it possible to take welcome to court for not supplying VALID cca within 28 days?

 

The name on cca has to be a least right, would like to challenge them

 

What form would i need for this and what costs

[dadofholly]

Has it been 40 days since you originaly requested the SAR?

 

Did you use the template off the site - or youe own letter?

 

What exactley did you request they include?

 

They should send you everything they have for your all you accounts/agreements ever held with them. - and am sure they have much more than that one document.

 

May need to follow it up with a non compliance letter - depending on your answers to the above.

[ninjainthenight]

i can confirm reconstituted agreements are entirely valid. Sorry! (baased on recent legal confirmation working with large mortgage company who raised the issue) it is a myth that a company needs to provide an ACTUAL signed copy to enforce an agreement.

[dadofholly]

i can confirm reconstituted agreements are entirely valid. Sorry! (baased on recent legal confirmation working with large mortgage company who raised the issue) it is a myth that a company needs to provide an ACTUAL signed copy to enforce an agreement.

 

But it can not be TWO agreements reconstructed as ONE.

[danielman2]

But it can not be TWO agreements reconstructed as ONE.

 

Some misunderstanding here, I took a third loan to consolidate 2 other loans running at once.

 

So its a reconstructed agreement of the third loan if you get me.

 

How can ninjainthenight be right, surely the creditor needs to show I agreed to the terms including apr etc

 

With welcome's reputation of making it up as they go along it does'nt look good.

 

If it goes to court and I say I did not agree to 22% apr over xx months, what would happen??

[danielman2]

i can confirm reconstituted agreements are entirely valid. Sorry! (baased on recent legal confirmation working with large mortgage company who raised the issue) it is a myth that a company needs to provide an ACTUAL signed copy to enforce an agreement.

 

okay, if it goes to court and I say I did not agree to 22% apr over xx months, what would happen??

[dadofholly]

okay, if it goes to court and I say I did not agree to 22% apr over xx months, what would happen??

 

Thanks for clearing up confusion.

 

Did Welcome send you the paperwork for the other two agreements?

Have they sent you statements?

Have they sent you a statement of Price?

 

If not write back and ask for them. They have not complied with your SAR request.

 

As for enforceability you do need to read Carey - but they can reconstruct - but have to state how they believe the information to be correct. Or at least that is what the judge has ordered them to do in a case i am involved with.

[dadofholly]

Use one of the template letters from the following link to follow up on your SAR - they have not sent you ALL the information they hold on you,

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?593-Data-Protection-Act-Non-Compliance-Template-Letters