Solicitor bailed out on me

[caro]

They can send a reconstituted agreement to comply with cca request but MUST produce the original in court. ..

 

Not so I'm afraid.

 

Stupidboy, your agreement doesn't seem to be showing.

 

It seems to me that you have 2 issues here, one being the solicitor, and the other being the claim against you. I assume that the urgent matter at the moment is the claim, so you need to decide if you want to carry on with the NWNF firm, employ another solicitor, or deal with this yourself.

 

I can understand that you may not be able to afford another solicitor or may not want to, as is the case with most caggers. That's why this site is here.

 

If you want help to do it yourself, then we're going to need a lot more information to help you. Do you have a hearing date?

[oilyrag]

Hello Good People,

 

I agree with most of what you say caro, however there is a point which needs clarification to ensure that stupidboy gets the best support from the folks on here. It really is essential that , stupidboy, you get to know exactly the position your solicitor (or ex as the case maybe) is in with your case. In our own case, all the ground work was done and we were then told to wait until any claim form arrived, if one ever did, and then and only then would things move again. We could safely ignore any of the other drivel. Correspondence had been sent by the sols to the OC stating the state of play and they were invited to go to court if they felt they had a case. the exact contents have not been revealed to us and as we have a level of trust and faith in ours I have not pressed the issue.

 

We were not told this, I had to ask. Knowledgable, reputable legal professionals have many strategies to their hand and quite rightly in my opinion keep them to themselves. I don't ignore everything but use a template letter given to me by the sols suitably paraphrased to see off the interim hassle. Usually it works at the first pass (15 or so DCAs and 2 solicitors practices). So I believe you have a need to know exactly where you stand as you may weaken your own case by moving in a way which is contradictory to what has already been done.

 

best regards

oilyrag.

[Peterbard]

HI

My two pence worth

Firstly regarding the unenforceability issue, as Caro says unfortunately it is no longer true that the lack of a signed agreement means that the court cannot issue an enforcement order.

Hate to go back to Wakesman again but the act says that an “agreement was signed” so it is only down to them to show that on the balance of probabilities you would have signed an agreement. Before anyone starts talking about burden of proof issues regarding who takes who to court, I would point out that as far as this is concerned as with the section 78 issue it is totally irrelevant.

The creditor does not have two sets of copy agreements one for requests from people defending and one for those persuing, and I am afraid the rules regarding what is acceptable are exactly the same for both. We are talking about balance of probabilities in civil cases the burden of proof really is not that big an obstacle.

Really I think we must move on from this trying to render an agreement unenforceable in order to avoid repayment idea. I think I have the right to say this as it was me who was a (one of anyway) prime mover of the practical aspects of unenforceability and what does and does not constitute an executed agreement (on here anyway).

Things have moved on since 2005 the CMCs and “legal experts” have pretty much ensured that the courts have sown up any leeway within the act.

Is this a good thing, I think that is up to debate. In your case I would ask, why do you reject the idea of accepting the order and arranging a repayment schedule for settling you liabilities?

If this is some kind of grudge against the creditor you are you are on a hiding to nothing they don’t care, to them you are just an account number.

My advice for what it is worth is forget about unenforceability and work on negotiating a repayment schedule that you can afford and get on with your life.

Best regards

Peter

Edited February 15, 2011 by Dodgeball

[dadofholly]

This is the only paperwork that they have sent me or the solicitors.

 

 

 

Without going through your whole thread can you just clarify for me - are you saying that this is the ONLY paperwork you have recieved as an agreement between you and the original creditor?

[dadofholly]

Stupidboy

 

We could do with a bit of background on this if possible.

 

Who was the original creditor?

Who is now attempting to recover any alleged monies owed?

Have you sent an SAR to the original creditor?

What other corrspondence/paperwork have you recieved (if any) in relation to this account?

Was there any insurances taken out on the agreement?

[dadofholly]

I have to say the advice and the way the OP has been treated on this thread has been poor.

 

All he has asked for is the paperwork that goes with his agreement - and advice on if he has a defence or not.

 

He was accused of having some kind of grudge against the creditor AND simply advised to throw in the towel and make arrangements to pay.

 

DISGRACEFUL treatment.

 

For the information of said "advisors" there are other posters on here who have been making payments, one for two years, they have recieved no statements, their account is going up, and now their creditor wants to take them to court. Any advice - shall i tell them to just put up and shut up untill the creditor applies for a CO and trys to force a sale?

[coledog]

Stupidboy

 

If you come back onto the forum we can look at the details of your case specifically , but we need the details as DOH has suggested. Theoretical argument is fair enough but is not helping you. What you have posted does not look like an agreement IMO but proving an 'agreement' existed is only part of this

[oilyrag]

Hello DOH,

 

I would refer you to my posts no's 46 and 52. It is not absolutely clear what SB is or was trying to achieve and until we have a clear picture of what has or has not been done it may not be the correct route to take to achieve the required ending merely to examine the paperwork posted.

 

I entirely agree with your comments about being told to "throw in the towel" and I for one have been complaining formally about posts such as the ones you are referring to. I too can be analytical and logical as claimed by others and recently I have wondered why we all bother and why we all don't just capitulate as the poster suggests. However i do have the luxury of proper legal advice and support (not CMC, charity etc) and I know what is being said is not altogether helpful or even correct.

 

My main aim has been , not to pry into SB's private affairs, nor to make his decisions for him, but i sincerely believe that his best interests would be served by first doing what I have suggested. Then and only then can rational decisions as to the routing of this problem be made. The advice to capitulate and the tone in which it was made does NOT in any way reflect the stance taken by our own solicitors who are specialists in this field able to plead as advocates in the higher courts on these issues.

 

Hope that helps

regards

oilyrag.

[gem-100]

It would be great to simply throw in the towel, make an offer of payment, and simply walk away, but in the real world a lot of us on here are fighting to keep the roof over our very heads, and are not simply looking for a way " to avoid repayment " tactic but for one reason or another find ourselves in very difficult circumstances beyond our control that have now made keeping up with our credit card repayments etc almost impossible. In starting the process of letting the relevant lenders know our circumstances, and making offers of payments, and having those offers refused, and impossible demands put on us instead, and becoming ill in the process of fighting just to keep going from one day to the next, we will do anything within our power to keep challenging those lenders that have no regard for the individual, and the hardships that befall us. If it was not for forums like this there would be many more people taking their lives simply because they can no longer cope with things, believe me I know how low one can get. I worked for 39 years of my life, never a day off sick, never late, then lost my job 17 months ago, since then I have applied for over two thousand jobs, I am a senior credit manager, no one wants to take on someone with my experience, they all would much rather some youngster with no experience, who does not know how to treat people, do the job properly, and even though I would do the job for the same pay as some youngster, I am not considered, as they do not believe I would stay on a low salary, and we wonder why the country is in the mess it's in, you have the blind leading the blind out there. So I am very grateful for the help I have received on here, I have just had another letter today from one of my lenders confirming they have received my 4k payment and will now write off the balance (10k), and not persue the balance as agreed, if it was not for this forum I would not now have cleared 2 of my debts so far saving me 17K, as I would not have known what to do and how to proceed, the debt I dealt with as a credit manager was not consumer debt, but b2b, I have learnt an awful lot from here, and once I am able I will deff make a donation as I think this site is fantastic, in the meantime, don't give up, listen to the advice on here, and research, and learn, if you are out of work, whilst looking for jobs, do what I have been doing, learn as much as you can, it's good for the brain, can be very productive, and in the end you will also be able to help others. Off my soap box now.

[Peterbard]

Hello DOH,

 

I would refer you to my posts no's 46 and 52. It is not absolutely clear what SB is or was trying to achieve and until we have a clear picture of what has or has not been done it may not be the correct route to take to achieve the required ending merely to examine the paperwork posted.

 

I entirely agree with your comments about being told to "throw in the towel" and I for one have been complaining formally about posts such as the ones you are referring to. I too can be analytical and logical as claimed by others and recently I have wondered why we all bother and why we all don't just capitulate as the poster suggests. However i do have the luxury of proper legal advice and support (not CMC, charity etc) and I know what is being said is not altogether helpful or even correct.

 

My main aim has been , not to pry into SB's private affairs, nor to make his decisions for him, but i sincerely believe that his best interests would be served by first doing what I have suggested. Then and only then can rational decisions as to the routing of this problem be made. The advice to capitulate and the tone in which it was made does NOT in any way reflect the stance taken by our own solicitors who are specialists in this field able to plead as advocates in the higher courts on these issues.

 

Hope that helps

regards

oilyrag.

 

Hi

Not sure wht you mean by "capitulate" as i said earlier it seems that some think that thiere is some kind of personal battle involved here between creditors and debtors, there is not or at least there should not be, the trick is to find an equitable solution that suits all sides.

Contray to some opinoin the fact is that the creditor is owed a debt, the first course of action must be to try and make arrangemtns to pay, of course within the peramiters of the available means of the debtor and what is acceptable by the creditor.

This has to be the first course of action for two main reasons first it is the correct thing to do, and second because if the matter does go to court it will then be apparent to the judge that the debtor made al reasonable efforts to reconcile and was only unable to do so because of the intransigence of the creditor. Of course we would hope it would not come to proceedings in court.

If there has been ncorrect information given on this thread then lets hear what it is so we can discuss, as for the information from solicitors, OK lets see that too even biased information is of some value.

 

Peter

[Peterbard]

I have to say the advice and the way the OP has been treated on this thread has been poor.

 

All he has asked for is the paperwork that goes with his agreement - and advice on if he has a defence or not.

 

He was accused of having some kind of grudge against the creditor AND simply advised to throw in the towel and make arrangements to pay.

 

DISGRACEFUL treatment.

 

For the information of said "advisors" there are other posters on here who have been making payments, one for two years, they have recieved no statements, their account is going up, and now their creditor wants to take them to court. Any advice - shall i tell them to just put up and shut up untill the creditor applies for a CO and trys to force a sale?

Hi

 

You think making arrangements to pay your debts is,"Throwing in the towel"?

 

Next you say you are not just trying to avoid payment seems a bit contradictory doesnt it?

 

As for your friend that has not recieved statements , ther is facility in the 2006 regs that prohibits the creditor from applying interest if no annual agreements are sent. I am sure someone willl point you to the relevant sections or you could have a look yourself.

Peter

[Basil Fawlty]

Hi

Not sure wht you mean by "capitulate" as i said earlier it seems that some think that thiere is some kind of personal battle involved here between creditors and debtors, there is not or at least there should not be, the trick is to find an equitable solution that suits all sides.

Contray to some opinoin the fact is that the creditor is owed a debt, the first course of action must be to try and make arrangemtns to pay, of course within the peramiters of the available means of the debtor and what is acceptable by the creditor.

This has to be the first course of action for two main reasons first it is the correct thing to do, and second because if the matter does go to court it will then be apparent to the judge that the debtor made al reasonable efforts to reconcile and was only unable to do so because of the intransigence of the creditor. Of course we would hope it would not come to proceedings in court.

If there has been ncorrect information given on this thread then lets hear what it is so we can discuss, as for the information from solicitors, OK lets see that too even biased information is of some value.

 

Peter

 

Peter, how do you feel about the situation whereby your circumstances may have changed, maybe loss of a job or business, and you offer the creditor a monthly sum that you can afford, but they refuse and take you to court resulting in a CCJ and a CO of you're a home owner (with the possibility of a forced sale)?

You make it sound so easy to come to an agreement with these people, but in reality, as we see many times on here, its not.

 

BF

[Peterbard]

Peter, how do you feel about the situation whereby your circumstances may have changed, maybe loss of a job or business, and you offer the creditor a monthly sum that you can afford, but they refuse and take you to court resulting in a CCJ and a CO of you're a home owner (with the possibility of a forced sale)?

You make it sound so easy to come to an agreement with these people, but in reality, as we see many times on here, its not.

 

BF

I feel very sorry for anyone in the circumstances you describe. But there is no use reaching for straws in a situation like the one you describe.What is neede is a practical realistic plan of action. The idea that you can just make the problem go away by finding some loophole in the CCA is not going to work any longer i am affraid. Iif you do not accept this then you are meerly putting off the inevitable,the time when you are going to have to face up to your obligations and reach sme kind of arrangement or take some other statutory remedy for the debt.

 

It would be wonderful if there was some kind of easy way out , i wish i could say there was,if i had less knowledge about these things and perhaps less of a concience then pehaps i would.

 

I would say currently the best information on here is in Sequencies bloggs and infoprmation threads, this is the way to go for people in debt now like i said things have moved on since i posted my uneforeability information in 2006.

 

Peter

[Basil Fawlty]

I feel very sorry for anyone in the circumstances you describe. But there is no use reaching for straws in a situation like the one you describe.What is neede is a practical realistic plan of action. The idea that you can just make the problem go away by finding some loophole in the CCA is not going to work any longer i am affraid. Iif you do not accept this then you are meerly putting off the inevitable,the time when you are going to have to face up to your obligations and reach sme kind of arrangement or take some other statutory remedy for the debt.

 

It would be wonderful if there was some kind of easy way out , i wish i could say there was,if i had less knowledge about these things and perhaps less of a concience then pehaps i would.

 

I would say currently the best information on here is in Sequencies bloggs and infoprmation threads, this is the way to go for people in debt now like i said things have moved on since i posted my uneforeability information in 2006.

 

Peter

 

I found that I had a choice when, due to the recession, my self employed earnings plummeted and the minimum repayments came to more than I was earning. I tried for the reduced payments, but ended up with them putting up the interest rates to some 35%...thats really going to help isnt it. The other choice was through finding this great forum and learning about asking for the CCA paperwork they're supposed to have. Two years later none of them have sent me back anything, in fact some have admitted in writing that they cannot comply with my request. The choice I'm taking is that they can take me to court, with me as the defendant, and we'll see what happens then (and I wont go as a LIP). You're entitled to your view that it doesnt work, but read around this forum and you'll find that it does, so I and others here, have a different view to you. However, you're not helping matters by coming on every positive thread and trying to derail it by causing arguments and having the thread closed.

I'm not trying to get out of any debts I may have because if it goes my way I'm happy to make low full and final offers in the full knowledge that they've had more than enough out of me already with the extortionate interest rates they've charged.

 

BF

[FORMISTER]

And lets be honest here, nobody has ever borrowed money or entered into an agreement with the likes of HFO. They decide to purchase distressed debts, knowing that they are often unenforcable, but then use underhand tactics to frighten and intimidate people into paying. Often adding interest and charges that they are not entitled to at the same time.

 

So my opinion in taking the moral high ground differs whether it's a debt with the OC or with a company who purchases the debt for peanuts. Thats the risk they choose to take to make a quick buck out of other peoples problems.

 

I will always advocate in dealing with the OC and trying to resolve matters, but when it's been purchased by a DCA, then thats fair game IMO

[oilyrag]

Hello Formister,

 

Whilst I would agree in general with what you have said, there are OC's out there who at the first sign that there might be a problem start out to hammer you and behave in an even more underhanded despicable way than the DCAs. Many are the cases on this site. There are coroners' reports ON THE RECORD which have actually said that people have been driven to take their own lives both by OCs and DCAs behaviour, much of which of course is illegal. As Basil says, none of us can predict what will happen to us even on a day to day basis. I would, based upon our own bitter, bitter experiences NEVER accept the advice of so called "debt advisors" like CAB and the others in that you should at least talk to your creditors in an effort to resolve the problems. NEVER EVER reveal any weakness at all to them is our advice, there is one particular credit card company which will absolutely HAMMER you every way they can, in our cases with them it has led to serious criminal allegations being made in writing as to their intent and policies which they have FAILED to deny in almost three years now.

 

I nor you fomented the financial crisis which has damaged, fatally in some cases, hundreds of thousands of peoples lives which will be blighted forever. This crisis was pure banker greed and avarice which is now suckuing the very lifeblood out of this country. Therefore it is my view that Parliament spoke with the CCA1974 et al and should there be any legal fialure to comply in full with the Statute Law then the creditor forfeits all rights and benefits undar the alleged agreement. It was not us that forced the Lisbon treaty upon us it was Parliament. There is no moral high ground to be taken by anyone ( bankers are amoral by definition) and I would use any method I can to defeat our creditor and have taken the actions necessary to do so. We have already won one issue with professional help which was a side issue, already costing the creditor the best part of £9.5K. I have repaid all of my debts many times over, over the years and I no longer subscribe to pure greed when it ruins so many peoples' lives.

 

regards

oilyrag

[the_shadow]

Can I please just remind people that this is an OPEN forum as such polar opinions can exist, should exist AND WILL be tolerated......

 

It is for each person who comes on this site to decide which way to go and reading all the opinions can only strengthen the decision imho, yes some people might not agree with what is written but this childish stance of demanding someone withdraws from a thread when they are stating an OPINION be it right or wrong is petty and counter-productive.

 

People need to at the very least see the opposing views if not only to counter when or if they ever get into a court room.

 

The original poster has left this thread its fair to say but that does not give everyone the right to use this thread as a slanging match. If you are going to post think before you post please!

 

Also I would state that people need to read the forum rules, questioning moderation and moderated posts is to be done in a particular way and not on the open forum, I would remind posters that any such questioning in the open forum will result in the post being moderated thus very counter productive for themselves and the Site Team. Multiple warnings will result in moderation of the user in question.

 

S.

[FORMISTER]

I agree with you Oilyrag, and thats why CAG is here to bring those to task. I would advocate dealing with the OC and trying to resolve the problem where possible, but as you state they don't always play ball.

 

When they don't , then again my attitude changes in how the OP should deal with them. I don't think we are disagree here on this subject.

 

I think it's very easy to give blanket advice out on this site (and this isn't directed at anyone in particular), but what some people forget is to apply it to the situation that the OP is currently in and what they are trying to achieve. Some people may not agree with the direction of advice, but as long as the OP is given the options and is made fully aware of the consequences of such actions, then I believe that is ok.

Edited February 20, 2011 by FORMISTER
spelling

[the_shadow]

Thread closed for review

[the_shadow]

Ok thread has been re-opened.

 

 

 

All,

 

I think posters need to take a look at themselves, CAG is not a debt avoidance website, we are a "self-help deal with your debt in the best way possible" kind of site.

 

Advice given to deal with your creditors or to repay the debt may not be liked by some who possibly are people who do not wish to deal with their debts or come to an arrangement but the polar opinion to their view should and will be allowed to be posted... the same is also true in reverse however.

 

Therefore I would ask all of you to cease from the petty bickering that has taken place on this thread... if that is your sole desire I would suggest you start a thread in the bear garden and go abuse each another on that.

 

Various posters have had warnings issued, I can only re-iterate that neglecting to heed these warnings WILL result in further action being taken against them.

 

S.

[stupidboy]

Can someone please explain where an entire thread has gone?

 

I started it, in this forum, I think called "Solicitor bailed out on me" and it is now not on this site. Certainly not under a search of posts/threads made by me.

 

Why not?

 

I need the help, which is what I thought this site was for...

[alfwithhair]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?287072-Solicitor-bailed-out-on-me

[Bazooka Boo]

Hold tight it's in my subs somewhere, I know the one your on about..

My god, your right! It seems to have totally disappeared?? I have no idea why that is? It doesn't even show up in my subs list, didn't you post on it recently, this week or last week sometime?

Edited February 25, 2011 by Bazooka Boo

[dx100uk]

right that

thread was unapproved because it got into a slagging match, though not of your doing

 

i can see little point in opening it

if we did so it would need a lot of editing.

 

as far as i can see you were added as an additional cardholder on an existing enforceable agreement

 

you latterly requested a cca and got back an a5 application form, and were advised that this would not be enforceable

 

then it was pointed out, that it most probably would & that use of the A/C and the card, would be enough , with the existing agreement in a court of law - which is probably correct.

 

it then decended into a yes.no arguement between everyone bar yourself.

 

i can see nothing of use that needs to be dragged over.

 

what state are you in now?

 

dx

siteteam

[Bazooka Boo]

Oops, I've just sent Alf a message saying his link didn't work and I can find the thread in my subs list! I never knew it got into a slanging match DX? Can't have been me this time as I've not been banned....OR CAGbotted...yet!