Consumer Credit agreements part 3

[Guest 5YearPlan]

Hi all!

Newbie here. I have a few credit accounts that I would like to send a CCA request for initial credit application forms. How do I go about doing this? Is there a template?

 

Thanks

[Desperate Daniella]

I've jist had an email from ltd2010 for this thread but I can't see it!

dd

[gh2008]

lol i was in the same boat

 

it's in debt collecting forum

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?282239-Help-with-Lombard-debt

[gaz2006]

Help had summons a couple of years ago i said couldnt do defence as creditor bank hadnt sent copy of agreement or default notice or demand for repayment etc as hadnt satisfied s78 . Wont say which bank card etc as they do look here etc and may identify . Case was stayed by judge until they produced this info . Now several years later they now write and see due to Wakeman they now send a Reconstituted agreement that they have no default or formal demand copies but as its on bank records the dont need them . They ask for me to withdraw defence within 14 days or they will apply for summary judgment .

Going by thread they can satisfy 78 by reconstructed agreement but not "enforcement " can they " ? Surely having nothing except made up one with no account number nothing apart from my typed address no default no formal demand notice means if they can supply nothing that i signed and as credit limit has been varied no agreement at all surely they cant try to enforce in the court ? If they can everyone would be stuffed

Advice please regards G

[means2anend]

If all they can 'refer' to is the bank records...I would assume that this satisfies a s78 request for a reconstituted agreement made up from 'other sources'...however I think you'll find that this is not the case when your terms have been varied...

 

Look to Issue 2 Paras 62-124 (Especially para 108 in Carey v Hsbc

 

m2ae

[MAGDA]

Hi, can I just ask, has anyone had problems obtaining a SAR from MBNA recently, due to problems with their archive, or anything else along those lines?

 

Many thanks,

 

Magda

[teachme2teachu]

Hi all, my appologies for hijacking this thread but I've had no response to my own new thread and need some advice. Any advice on the following is greatly appreciated...

 

Hi everyone! I have recently sent a CCA request to Westcot in connection with an alleged unpaid BT phone bill. Today I have received the CCA back along with the fee of £1. Included was a short note as follows:

 

"Following your request for a copy of the signed agreement we can confirm that this account falls under the following legislation, Consumer Credit (Exempt Agreements) Order 1989, Article 3 (1) and is therefore enforceable.

Trusting the above clarifies the situation"

 

I have read the above CCA and am under the impression that this piece of legislation applies to Fixed Term loans for a specified amount payable in no more than four payments, over a period not exceeding 12 months without interest or other added charges.

 

The former agreement with BT was for ongoing services i.e. the provision of a landline which was billed quarterly on the basis of its use and included fixed hire charges.

I have looked at the list of companies whose agreements fall within a category covered by this legislation and BT do not appear there.

Are Westcot mis-quoting legislation? Should I send them a CCA non compliance letter?

Anyone who can offer advice on this issue will be greatly appreciated. I was feeling quite confident in my handling of DCA's but this reply has knocked me slightly askew.

[Dotty50]

Hi teachme2teachu,

 

You may get more help in this forum

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?115-Telecoms-mobile-or-fixed

[alisindebt]

Hi, can I just ask, has anyone had problems obtaining a SAR from MBNA recently, due to problems with their archive, or anything else along those lines?

 

Many thanks,

 

Magda

 

Yes, I have had exactly that experience. You can see my thread on here, just do a quick search and you can read the whole story.

 

In a nutshell, I had around 10 thousand pounds owing on an old Abbey card-Abbey was taken over by MBNA. It inflated to 10500 with late fees, etc. It was sold outright to the lovely people at Lowells who kept demanding payment in full, etc. (illegal activity don't you think?)

 

I did the SAR and CCA thing and it was a bit strange. I kept getting letters apologizing for the time taken to respond, as their client (MBNA/Abbey) were trying to locate the paperwork, which dated back to around 1999.

 

In the end they wrote back saying that there were no records going back that far and they closed the account writing off the money.

 

That was before reconstituted CCAs were allowed. However, I guess if they don't have the original paperwork they can't reconstitute a copy because they won't have essential information, such as the credit limit offered, etc. Maybe others on here can advise you better than me on the technicalities of the reconstituted CCAs if they go down that route.

 

Not only did they write of 10 thousand quid, I also then claimed back the PPI.

 

Abbey wrote to me directly telling me a pack of lies, which included saying that it was not mis sold (they had no records so how did they know? Hahahaha) and they also said it as too old for the FOS complaint system to be used.

 

Nevertheless, I complained via the FOS and although it took over 6 months, i got a full PPI refund with compensation and interest.

 

I therefore made a huge profit on the whole exercise. I am sure that MBNA Abbey and Lowells hate me and I am truly proud of that.

 

Take a look at my thread and see how I did it and how I never listen to what the banks tell me!

 

Good luck with your claim.

[MAGDA]

Yes, I have had exactly that experience. You can see my thread on here, just do a quick search and you can read the whole story.

 

In a nutshell, I had around 10 thousand pounds owing on an old Abbey card-Abbey was taken over by MBNA. It inflated to 10500 with late fees, etc. It was sold outright to the lovely people at Lowells who kept demanding payment in full, etc. (illegal activity don't you think?)

 

I did the SAR and CCA thing and it was a bit strange. I kept getting letters apologizing for the time taken to respond, as their client (MBNA/Abbey) were trying to locate the paperwork, which dated back to around 1999.

 

In the end they wrote back saying that there were no records going back that far and they closed the account writing off the money.

 

That was before reconstituted CCAs were allowed. However, I guess if they don't have the original paperwork they can't reconstitute a copy because they won't have essential information, such as the credit limit offered, etc. Maybe others on here can advise you better than me on the technicalities of the reconstituted CCAs if they go down that route.

 

Not only did they write of 10 thousand quid, I also then claimed back the PPI.

 

Abbey wrote to me directly telling me a pack of lies, which included saying that it was not mis sold (they had no records so how did they know? Hahahaha) and they also said it as too old for the FOS complaint system to be used.

 

Nevertheless, I complained via the FOS and although it took over 6 months, i got a full PPI refund with compensation and interest.

 

I therefore made a huge profit on the whole exercise. I am sure that MBNA Abbey and Lowells hate me and I am truly proud of that.

 

Take a look at my thread and see how I did it and how I never listen to what the banks tell me!

 

Good luck with your claim.

 

Hi Alisindebt, that was a great outcome then, wasn't it - very nice to get £10,000 written off, and also the PPI refunded. It's interesting that MBNA don't seem to have any records going back to the late 1990's - mine was around the same date as yours, except it was taken out directly with MBNA.

 

I received practically nothing in response to my SAR, so can only assume that they don't hold any records for their earlier accounts except the application, which I think were scanned in and everything else was destroyed.

 

Will have a look at your thread!

 

many thanks, Magda

[means2anend]

If yours was DIRECTLY from MBNA then they ought mot have taken this much time...it can only bode well for you and not for them..Usually when documents are requested from a first party the third party usually states 'we will hold this account in suspension and refer back to our client foer the requested documents...delay in that case is expected BUT not in your case..SO ..I would assume that they haven't got it...BAD 4 mbna:razz: A SAR is important! important! important!

 

m2ae

[means2anend]

Hi all, my appologies for hijacking this thread but I've had no response to my own new thread and need some advice. Any advice on the following is greatly appreciated...

 

 

 

Is yours simply a debtor-creditor agreement? IF so then they are misquoting

 

Hi everyone! I have recently sent a CCA request to Westcot in connection with an alleged unpaid BT phone bill. Today I have received the CCA back along with the fee of £1. Included was a short note as follows:

 

"Following your request for a copy of the signed agreement we can confirm that this account falls under the following legislation, Consumer Credit (Exempt Agreements) Order 1989, Article 3 (1) and is therefore enforceable.

Trusting the above clarifies the situation"

 

I have read the above CCA and am under the impression that this piece of legislation applies to Fixed Term loans for a specified amount payable in no more than four payments, over a period not exceeding 12 months without interest or other added charges.

 

The former agreement with BT was for ongoing services i.e. the provision of a landline which was billed quarterly on the basis of its use and included fixed hire charges.

I have looked at the list of companies whose agreements fall within a category covered by this legislation and BT do not appear there.

Are Westcot mis-quoting legislation? Should I send them a CCA non compliance letter?

Anyone who can offer advice on this issue will be greatly appreciated. I was feeling quite confident in my handling of DCA's but this reply has knocked me slightly askew.

 

Art 3(1) applies to debtor-creditor-supplier agreements...is yours a straight creditor-debtor agreement...IF it is then it is regulated by CCA 1974 and they probably cannot comply with your original request but are attempting to 'mask' it...Plus this Order mainly deals with Total Charges for Credit and Land!!!

 

However their have been a few amendments to this Order and other exempt agreeement Orders...but I have not had time to view them all

 

m2ae

[MAGDA]

If yours was DIRECTLY from MBNA then they ought mot have taken this much time...it can only bode well for you and not for them..Usually when documents are requested from a first party the third party usually states 'we will hold this account in suspension and refer back to our client foer the requested documents...delay in that case is expected BUT not in your case..SO ..I would assume that they haven't got it...BAD 4 mbna:razz: A SAR is important! important! important!

 

m2ae

 

 

Hi m2ae, you're right - they don't seem to have very much in the way of documents at all. From what I understand, I think they destroy the majority of the paperwork after a few years. The response to my SAR was pathetic - nothing of any significance at all. What a shame!

 

regards, Magda

[teachme2teachu]

Hi m2ae, I was about to send SAR to BT but your post has made me think again. This is an alleged unpaid landline bill which BT have passed on to a DCA. Having read Art 3(1) I came to the conclusion laid out in my original post. Any further info you might have on this issue will be greatly appreciated.

[Bigdebtor]

I don't know if this is a glimmer of hope or another establishment stalling tactic - but the attached is from Vince Cable's department - and he might just be the one member of the CONDEM cartel that I think might be on the Consumer's side.

 

“ We want to strengthen our evidence base on the impacts of recent voluntary, market driven initiatives around personal current accounts and on any continuing consumer detriment in this area, BIS issued a call for evidence on 15 October which can be accessed via the BIS website at:

http://bis.gov.uk/policies/consumer-issues/consumer-credit-and-debt/managing-borrowing"

 

Now it is your turn to let the BIS know that you are not happy. Tell them that we need a new law, tell them we need it today, and tell them why! What is more make sure you pass the link on to all your friends and family.

 

I had posted this yesterday on another thread but this is also most relevant to the discussions currently on this thread as it seems the Creditors are desperately trying to remove the protection we still have under the various CCA's. There is more info on this on the linked thread. We all need to respond to this ASAP to put OUR side of the argument!

 

BD

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?248268-Sheriff-puts-Bank-of-Scotland-to-proof-on-bank-charges&p=3194335&viewfull=1#post3194335

[geord1e]

i too have just recieved what arrow global say is my credit agreement but its the form a lady flled in in the hight street applying for credit card

[Spit]

My other half is disputing her Abbey card and got a letter the other day asking for her signature to update there records LOL. Wonder how many people actually do that and send it back. It went in the bin of course!

[geord1e]

this is the reverse of the document

let me know your thoughts guys any advise is greatly apreciated

[rebel11]

Hi geord1e

 

I've unapproved one of your document posts as it still has a lot of details, please repost removing all details that could identify you.

[geord1e]

this is the front of the document i received it clearly states application for credit and the date is year 2 id be pleased if anyone could take a look see what they think and any suggestions would be greatly apreciated

[diddydicky]

My other half is disputing her Abbey card and got a letter the other day asking for her signature to update there records LOL. Wonder how many people actually do that and send it back. It went in the bin of course!

 

it shouldnt be in your bin..............it should be in your file!

[diddydicky]

this is the front of the document i received it clearly states application for credit and the date is year 2 id be pleased if anyone could take a look see what they think and any suggestions would be greatly apreciated

 

where is your signature?

[Bigdebtor]

I agree totally with DD (usually do!) - AND you should also keep ALL the envelopes - and write date of arrival on back of each envelope - so you can establish a pattern of how long it usually is between the date on their letter and you actually getting it.

 

BD

[means2anend]

Geordie

 

how old is the ALLEGED agreement..was it after 1983 but before 31st may 2005?

 

 

your name and address has come far too late on the form...it ought to be after the heading consumer credit agreement regulated....

 

m2ae

[maxedout]

M2ae I thought they could stick your name and address on it if it was a recon thanks maxedout