PPI Compound Interest Spreadsheet - Monthly Card payments

[noomill060]

Yes.

[Smoothound]

This is where I am currently Nortie. Still waiting for the full figures going back to '94 and am about to send a LBA letter giving them 7 days as they have had around 3 months from the original SAR and then another 40 days that they gave themselves which has also now expired. I'm quite looking forward to guesstimating some figures to put in writing to them

 

Having had a think about this and as they have failed to respond properly I am now putting together a spreadsheet using the Compound interest calculator to send in with a direct claim for my charges. I have averaged out the known payments and applied this amount to all the unknowns going back from 2006 to 1994 the total amount owed is going to frighten them to death I think as it surprised me how high it is. Can I upload the spreadsheet for someone to check my figures?

Edited November 6, 2010 by Smoothound

[nortie]

Hi Smoothound

 

I have figures from 1999 onwards, but my card also started in 1994.

 

The first actual figure I have is for £38.71 in July 1999. (At 65p per £100, the terms of the PPI, that represents a credit card debt of almost £6000)

 

I have a start date for my card - 17th October 1994 - so, discounting the first month, I make that 55 months of "missing" figures.

 

So to approximate the PPI payments for those missing months, I divided £38.71 between those missing 55 months, giving (approximately) 67p per month. So I have added 67p every month for 55 months, eventually getting me to £38.71 on a sliding incremented scale from £0 on 17th October 1994.

 

Whether this will prompt my card company to magically find those missing figures remains to be seen. I guess they'll only "find" them if it is to their advantage.

 

I too am having further spreadsheet problems... I wish there was a simple, definitive way of calculating compound interest via a spreadsheet; the CAG advanced one doesn't compound the interest, and let's be honest, the EGALegal way is tedious over 194 months!

 

Will let you know if I find a reliable way...

[Smoothound]

Maybe your method is a bit fairer

 

I knew mine would probably be considered over the top but thought it might at least get them writing and giving me the correct figures which so far they have avoided!

[steven4064]

At least it is possible with a spreadsheet and it is much more tedious by hand!

[nortie]

I'm sure it is possible... I still don't seem to have cracked it yet; I seem to be getting wild variations on some of the calculations compared with the EGALegal calculator, which is sometimes bang-on with my spreadsheet.

 

You already showed me how to get the same figure (or very near) for February 1997 to Dec 2010, however if I paid £61.95 on 17th Jun 2002 (also at 18.9%), my spreadsheet says the interest due on 17th December 2010 should be £211.81, but EGALegal says £250.29...

[Smoothound]

I've lashed up a spread sheet for mine, just hoping someone on this thread could have a look and see what they think before I post it off to MBNA?

PPI Charges2.xls

[Smoothound]

No one? I think my calculations are right but I don't want MBNA having a good laugh at my expense

[igglepiglet]

nortie - I noticed the same thing. I think the reason is that 18.9% is the compounded annual rate, and you're meant to use the non-compounded equivalent (which would be 17.45%).

 

I hope somebody else will confirm this.

 

Smoothound - Were you always charged 17.9%?

 

I'm doing my calculations now with a little script I wrote to compound the interest at different rates through different periods.

Edited December 18, 2010 by igglepiglet

[Smoothound]

I've no idea really what I was charged as MBNA have failed to send me anything useful including the PPI amounts prior to 2006 and I have mislaid or disposed of all my oldest statements so I have just used the amount shown on my supposed CCA

[igglepiglet]

FYI I found a spreadsheet designed for PPI here (explanatory post)

 

I'm going to check whether it produces the same results as my own calculations.

[pop_gun]

nortie, can you update the thread as i'm going through something similar and would like to know how

you're getting on.

 

p.s.

 

I tried calculating the compound interest, by month and did so without a spreadsheet. although i've just

discovered i made a mistake with the amount of months and the rate of interest i used to calculate the

figures. i'm loath to do it all again but i can't see any alternative.

Edited April 25, 2011 by pop_gun

[pop_gun]

No one? I think my calculations are right but I don't want MBNA having a good laugh at my expense

 

from what i can see your calculations are correct given the amounts you listed.

 

I used EGAlegal compound interest calculator to verify some of your calculations.

 

out of curiousity what sort of account is charged, over £100 per month, for PPI?

is it a business account?

 

p.s. if you have to take this to court please add the 8% court interest on the claim

[Smoothound]

from what i can see your calculations are correct given the amounts you listed.

 

I used EGAlegal compound interest calculator to verify some of your calculations.

 

out of curiousity what sort of account is charged, over £100 per month, for PPI?

is it a business account?

 

p.s. if you have to take this to court please add the 8% court interest on the claim

 

Hi,

 

Thanks for checking I sent the claim off a while back and got a letter back telling me it was taking longer to look into than they thought and I would get an answer by the end of this month but nothing has arrived yet!

 

This was a personal credit card but it had a high balance on it hence the £100 plus PPI charges. I think the card limit was around £17500 or so

[millymollymoo]

Hi Steven

 

When I click on your link I get this:

 

Jump to: navigation, search

A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last attempted database query was:

(SQL query hidden)

from within function "". MySQL returned error "1030: Got error -1 from storage engine (localhost)".

 

 

Is the site down?

 

 

milly x

[millymollymoo]

Hi hope you get the full money back 8-)

 

Can I ask using that calculator, am I right in calculating that a single premium PPI payment on a loan that worked out approx £760.00 from 2 January 1993 would really work out to over £20,000 + in compound interest at 19.9%. This seems rediculously high for 18 years repayment on that amount. can you really charge thenm the rate of the loan from all them years ago?? I ask as I wouldn't want to be laughed at trying to reclaim that if it is wrong too.

 

milly X

[nortie]

nortie, can you update the thread as i'm going through something similar and would like to know how

you're getting on.

 

Hello all,

 

So, the latest developments (yes, it's STILL not sorted) are as follows;

 

After being asked to sign a F&F agreement without knowing what the amount was (which I refused to do), I was told my case would 'fast-track' to an ombudsman for a final decision.

 

Fast forward 18 months and I'm contacted again by ANOTHER adjudicator (the third on may case so far) who believes my case needs resolving (!). He says my lender has offered to settle for just short of £9k. By my calculation, that's less than the amount of PPI paid, without adding any interest back to 1994.

 

I sent my calculations to Adjudicator No. 3, and he is awaiting my lender's calculations for comparison, and so far he's received nothing from them - unsurprisingly.

 

The longer they delay, the more interest is payable, so I can wait.

[emmtay]

Hi, Im totally confused too about this, especially after reading the advise on this thread, as I've been advised to use the FOS spreadsheets as apparently the FOS won't pay CI in the redress.

My case is very similar to this, if anyone could have a look its Emmtay v M&S Chargecard/Credit card PLEASE HELP, I would be very grateful, and hopefully help others too if we all follow the same route.

I signed the f&f letter from FOS on the understanding that if I don't agree to the figures sent to me by M&S, which I don't, I could try and sort it out with them first, but if not then FOS would get involved again! I am totally gutted reading this thread...and hope I don't live to regret this!

Emmtay

[ims21]

Hi

 

You have to understand the difference between what the regulators would award on a credit card and what a court can award. They are different.

 

A regulatory (fos) award will consist of premiums paid plus any contractual compound interest charged on them. In addition, if the reconstruction of the account without the ppi and that interest results in the account showing a credit balance for any period then 8% simple is awarded on that credit balance for that period. Where an account is closed and paid off, there will clearly be a difference in the balance, i.e. with the ppi and without. The award will give 8% simple on that difference running from the date of settlement of the card and the date of settlement of the PPI claim.

 

A court can award pure compound interest in restitution in which case you would use a pure compound interest spreadsheet and argue your case for restitution in court. You can also go for a higher rate than was being charged on your card. For more details on this read the interest tutorial linked at No.4 in my signature.

[nortie]

Hello all,

 

And STILL it continues.

 

Credit card company has returned with their figures which state that they apparently owe me no - that's £0.00 - interest on an undisputed £38.71 dating back to July 1999. The FOS adjudicator says those figures are "fair and reasonable", but guess what? I don't agree.

 

So, I guess I need to head to court. I have just run a compound interest calculation on my figures, showing (without adding 8% S69 interest) a total close to £32,000... a staggering amount. Their best offer is £10,080.

 

My next step is to find a really knowledgeable legal firm who can a) check the details for errors, and b) give me some idea of cost. In your experience, do you get to court and they settle, or does it go all the way?

 

Cheers for your continued support.

 

Nortie

[ims21]

Is this account still live?

 

If not when was it settled?

[nortie]

Is this account still live?

 

If not when was it settled?

 

No - closed 2008

[ims21]

OK so for a regulatory award you calculate your compound interest up to the date of closure or the date that PPI stopped being charged on the account. That effectively gives you an estimate of the difference between the actual balance on the account and the balance without the PPI.

 

That figure then goes into a statutory interest calculator to give you the simple interest from the date of closure to the date of settlement.

 

This spreadsheet will do compound interest on a regulatory basis i.e. compounding monthly

 

FosCISheet v101.xls

 

and this one is the statutory interest calculator

 

StatIntSheet v101.xls

 

While you can sue for interest in restitution you need to be aware that with the amount of £32,000 this will be outside small claims and will leave you exposed to possibly significant costs of the other side if you should lose the case.

[nortie]

So - here's a question.

 

Why is the account balance so important? Is it not as simple as:

 

I pay PPI premium of £38 in July 1999.

 

Card interest rate is 17.66% APR.

 

So they owe me compound interest on £38 at 17.66% for every month until they repay it.

 

If they LENT me £38 at 17.66% APR compounded monthly, in July 1999, and I repaid nothing, how much would I owe today? Surely those amounts should be identical - and if not, why not?

 

I understand that account balance is eventually important when calculating when 8% simple comes into play, but surely the compound interest due on the PPI element just needs the premium paid, the card interest rate and the dates incurred and settled?

[ims21]

So - here's a question.

 

Why is the account balance so important?

 

Because it determines whether the account would have been in credit if the ppi was removed and you get 8% simple for that month on the credit balance

Is it not as simple as:

 

I pay PPI premium of £38 in July 1999.

 

Card interest rate is 17.66% APR.

 

So they owe me compound interest on £38 at 17.66% for every month until they repay it.

 

No it isn't that simple under the regulatory method. It is that simple under a court claim for restitution. They are different methods

 

If they LENT me £38 at 17.66% APR compounded monthly, in July 1999, and I repaid nothing, how much would I owe today? Surely those amounts should be identical - and if not, why not?

 

You said the account was closed so they stopped charging any interest at that time

 

I understand that account balance is eventually important when calculating when 8% simple comes into play, but surely the compound interest due on the PPI element just needs the premium paid, the card interest rate and the dates incurred and settled?

 

Not quite as simple as that for a regulatory award. You would need to argue in court for that

 

 

ims