NHS/Social Services - should you pay for care

[Columbia]

I don't claim to know ALL about it. I have to operate within that framework in my job, so I have to know how to present my part of the assessment, and know how it fits in. I have been angered by what appear to be unfair decisions myself on more than one occasion.

You, however, seem to see yourself as the fount of all knowledge, based on the fact that your wife (whom I presume is a solicitor?) helps people to claim fees back from the NHS.

As I said before, don't patronise me.

[gizmo111]

I'm truly very pleased for you but need to watch Panorama tonight to see that you are one of the few as many terminally ill patients aren't so lucky

 

Thanks but as CHC criteria is less than 8 weeks to live I don't feel too pleased - before I knew the prognosis I would ahve been happy & was preparing for my dad to sell house etc if he acheived a better quality of lfe in a good nursing home, however had my mum still been alive I would have not been happy if her standard of life had been reduced in order for her to contribute to care home bills, for my father.

25 years ago when my nan was in need of a home she ahd no assets and was placed in a local authority care home - we looked around private but could not afford what we liked, the home was not wonderful and we always regret that we could not pay the extra for what she deserved, she missed out on enetertainment and day trips etc.

Most people that complain about the cost are those that will lose out on their inheritance, and at the end of the day it is not their money that they are spending it is what their parents have worked hard for and they deserve to reap the benefits from it not the off spring.

However I do feel that services should be more equal and the care standards monitored more closely.

[JonCris]

I don't claim to know ALL about it. I have to operate within that framework in my job, so I have to know how to present my part of the assessment, and know how it fits in. I have been angered by what appear to be unfair decisions myself on more than one occasion.

You, however, seem to see yourself as the fount of all knowledge, based on the fact that your wife (whom I presume is a solicitor?) helps people to claim fees back from the NHS.

As I said before, don't patronise me.

 

The point & what many in your profession don't understand is the criteria you use to make your assessment is unlawful.

 

These practices have come into being without any regard for the law. I suggest you actually read the following. Coughlan Judgement

 

Incidently it would appear that I do know a great deal more about the subject than you & it's not just because my wife is a solicitor.

[bankoff]

The point & what many in your profession don't understand is the criteria you use to make your assessment is unlawful.

 

These practices have come into being without any regard for the law. I suggest you actually read the following. Coughlan Judgement

 

Incidently it would appear that I do know a great deal more about the subject than you & it's not just because my wife is a solicitor.

 

This is precisely the point I have been trying to make here. My mother is probably worse than this, dementia is a debilitating mental illness, and with it comes all the other problems, but people who have it are completely unaware that the NHS is getting them to sign away their homes, and as you said its unlawful.

 

Having seen Panorama on Sunday night I find it unbelievable that the woman who ran the featured care home could actually charge more for the residents who were paying for themselves. If thats not unfair, then I just don't know what is, do you?

 

I rest my case!!!!!!

[Rob Wills]

Thanks for that info.

 

I have POA so they won't get past me.

 

Did you read RobWills story, really dreadful. Do these people really care or what?

 

 

They ignore POAs and Enduring POAs.

 

The legal system requires, not just expertise, but £ tens of thousands, legal aid is available but there are few lawyers that are any good who will undertake the work due to the time involved.

[JonCris]

There are lawyers who specialize in the area. Contact the Law Society they will give details

[Rob Wills]

I have a very capable lawyer now, but the system is slow and in the meantime I have lost 6 years of my life. My mother, prematurely hers...

 

The so called terrorists have the right action, sadly the wrong targets. Corrupt bureaucrats are the real evil and they exist in every department of government or organisation with powers of authority over ordinary citizens lives, local or national. Democracy is dead.

[bankoff]

Well after a long and drawn out battle with the NHS, they have now decided that mother is entitled to NHS funded continuing care, her condition is worse than that of Pam Coughlin, so they have made the right decision.

 

Lets hope that more of you out there are prepared to question these departments and hold out for the right decision.

 

Power to the people,,,,,,,, and thanks to Stephen's help. NHScareinfo.com

[ffocus]

Power to the people,,,,,,,, and thanks to Stephen's help. NHScareinfo.com

 

Interesting read. I think more people should know about this. I will spread the word.

[JonCris]

I'm sorry your the only one who is deluded.

 

How can you explain that almost all authorities throughout the country are having to repay unlawful charges levied for care & in many cases compensate families for the loss of the family home.. The estimated figure is that it will eventualy with added compensation run into 1 billion pounds, that's 1 billion! in case anyone thinks its a typo

 

Many authorites knowing the have acted unlawfully are capitulating as soon as they are challenged & thats why most cases don't reach the courts or the press

 

Also I would remind you the country CAN afford it & the suggestion that we can't is government spin. Without wanting to get political we only have to stop wasting money in other arena's such as foreign wars to be able to afford to look after the sick & elderly. Also you forget that in Scotland they do just that

 

Also I would remind you that these people have ALREADY paid & what you suggest is that they should pay a second time. A view which frankly I find reprehensibale but typical amongst the caring professions, until as I have found it effects them directly. Then there can be a "road to damascus" moment

[Rob S]

The view expressed by Columbia earlier in this thread about "greedy relatives" protecting their inheritance is odious. The elderly who find themselves in the situation of needing full time care have paid their taxes all their lives, so at a time when they are most vulnerable why should the state be able to rob them of their assets, especially as in one part of the UK their care costs are met by the state? The issue of continuing NHS care is still kept very quiet from family members by the state and it is only thanks to sites like this and organisations like the Alzheimers Society and Age Concern (to name just 2) that the knowledge is ecoming more common place.

[Columbia]

You're saying this nearly a year later?? Perhaps you should refresh your memory and read the rest of that post, and the bit where I said this:

"I know that not all relatives do this, it's a small number".

I stand by what I said, and have seen at first hand the awful and uncaring attitudes of SOME people towards their elderly and vulnerable relatives.

[JonCris]

Yes Columbia I think it has to be agreed that some relatives are uncaring & greedy but your implication that all care workers are saints is nonsense.

 

The great majority of relatives that I have come across have been caring. but as we now see, & the media is beginning to reveal, that rather than good care being available to all the elderly a very significant number are being not only abused but even murdered by so called caring professionals.

 

I'm sorry if anyone thinks it's tarring them all with the same brush but until those who don't abuse the elderly expose those who do then they carry an equal responsibility for what happens

[Rob S]

You're saying this nearly a year later?? Perhaps you should refresh your memory and read the rest of that post, and the bit where I said this:

"I know that not all relatives do this, it's a small number".

I stand by what I said, and have seen at first hand the awful and uncaring attitudes of SOME people towards their elderly and vulnerable relatives.

 

Columbia, you are being very selective, and you said it in relation to families pulling stunts to get money signed over from an ailing relative. Here's what you said:-

 

"I've seen relatives salting away large amounts of their parents' savings to avoid paying for care. I know that not all relatives do this, it's a small number;"

 

Personally I don't see any problem with families taking legitimate steps to protect their assets from the state. The state are doing their utmost to avoid paying in cases where they have a responsibility. In my first meeting to discuss my fathers condition there was no mention whatsoever from any of the healthcare professionals about continuing NHS care. All they were interested in was getting him into a nursing home and us providing a financial statement so they could plunder the family assets.

 

You say the state can't afford the cost but it comes to 3 billion pounds, which is a drop in the ocean when compared to the overall cost of all services in the UK. Look at the money that is thrown elsewhere: legal aid for career criminals, paying for documents to be translated into numerous languages for those who come to the UK and make no effort to learn English, a war in far away lands, aid being given to foreign governments totalling millions of pounds, putting the essential services to the extra efforts of collating statistics for virtually everything they do and a lot more besides.

 

You could add much more to that list, but it's proof that the government don't care about care for the elderly. They try very hard to get their hands on the assets of families because they know the last thing on most peoples minds is to take on the state to claim what is rightfully due.

[JonCris]

Could I just make the point 'again' that that whilst it may be the state controlling the money it's actually been provided by those people now required to be repaid by way of benefits.

 

Many of whom will never recover the same amount in benefits that they have paid in taxes & NI throughout their lifetime & where told that in the event it was needed they would be provided for from cradle to grave

[bankoff]

You say the state can't afford the cost but it comes to 3 billion pounds, which is a drop in the ocean when compared to the overall cost of all services in the UK. Look at the money that is thrown elsewhere: legal aid for career criminals, paying for documents to be translated into numerous languages for those who come to the UK and make no effort to learn English, a war in far away lands, aid being given to foreign governments totalling millions of pounds, putting the essential services to the extra efforts of collating statistics for virtually everything they do and a lot more besides.

 

You could add much more to that list, but it's proof that the government don't care about care for the elderly. They try very hard to get their hands on the assets of families because they know the last thing on most peoples minds is to take on the state to claim what is rightfully due.

 

Well said Rob S, my mother worked until she was 70, never went to the doctor for years, she has a mental illness and is very poorly, she has a right to NHS Continuing Care and I fought for it for her. Also what about all the younger people on drugs who have never worked in their lives, the state supports them, gives them a place to live and money in their pockets to buy more drugs.

 

I have to agree with you,,,,,,, this government does not care about its elderly,,,,, no wonder we are all leaving this country in our droves to find a better life elsewhere.

 

The person who invented the phrase "Rip off Britain" was absolutely right.

 

We all pay a lot and get very little back!

[tezl]

first time here but having worked in hospitals and nursing homes as a contractor feel i should say something.why should people who have peed their money up the wall all their life get care for nothing,and exspect it.while someone whos been a bit frugal and saved for later life and leave a bit for children have their assets seized.

 

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[Goldlady]

It is a disgrace I agree with you entirely tez. However for anyone who has not yet had their parents' assets seized it is possible for your parent(s) to put their house in trust for children/grandchildren and legally remove their ownership of the house. As long as this happens within a reasonable time (not 7 years - but 6-12 months) it is very hard for the authorities to prove it was done for that reason. And they will get nursing care paid for the same as those who the state does provide for!!!

[MARTIN3030]

Tez in the process of drawing attention to the possibility of racism you have yourself been guilty of racially posting.

Please take more care.

[tezl]

Tez in the process of drawing attention to the possibility of racism you have yourself been guilty of racially posting.

Please take more care.

hi, sorry to all who may have been offended,emotive subject,as i said before have done lots of work for builders doing grant work,the amount of money given to some people to have certain work done is quite amazing,then others are palmed off with delaying excuses.do work for a fair amount of pensioners,a lot of them should have things done for them,but unless someone fights for them they get fobbed off.they also think they are being a nuisense.trying hard to find right words not to sound racist,which incidently i am not,but its about time people who have paid in all their lives are put first in que, in all things. if their not then thats when,shall i say disenchantment sets in with the way things are done.tez

[JonCris]

I am going to say 'I told you so'

 

At long last the message seems to be getting through.

 

'Shameful' care of elderly exposed - AOL News

 

Perhaps all those here who have continualy defended the 'caring' profession should read this