Tesco took my points away

[Action it]

Thanks Martin3030! I thought CPUT may relate to something else.

[sequenci]

Thanks for the Contract Law link. It's interesting.

 

I've come across the below.

 

Acceptance by silence plus additional circumstances

 

(3) where the offer is ambiguous, and the offeree communicates with the offeror showing that he understood the offer in a particular sense, this communication will probably amount to a counter-offer9; in which case, it could be that silence alone by the original offeror will constitute his acceptance10;

 

Would this have any validity in my case anyone please?

 

There was no silence? You acted on terms which were written, surely?

 

Just an aside, what if Tesco argues that the CPUT regulations do not apply due to their argument that 500 mobiles would only be purchased by a commercial entity?

 

(I'm just thinking as I type!)

[perplexity]

(3) where the offer is ambiguous, and the offeree communicates with the offeror showing that he understood the offer in a particular sense, this communication will probably amount to a counter-offer9; in which case, it could be that silence alone by the original offeror will constitute his acceptance10;

 

 

Clutching at a straw!

 

I can see that there is indeed an element of ambiguity to the term "PERSONAL AND CONSUMER USE", but if the argument is then that the purchase of goods with clubcard points is supposed to have communicated to Tescos the fact that a buyer interpreted the terms in a particular way, that is already unreasonably far fetched, never mind that it fails to fit with being a counter offer, because a purchase is the offeree's acceptance of the offeror's offer of points.

 

What was offered otherwise?

 

 

If you'd written to Tescos at the start, to announce an intention to purchase five thousand pounds worth of this and that, then you would have an argument. A subsequent failure to respond to the customer could then denote their consent, but they can't be expected to read your mind.

 

8)

Edited October 19, 2010 by perplexity

[Action it]

Tesco claim I broke this term of theirs "Consumer & Personel use."

 

I'm not a business or corporation so I don't know how Tesco can regard me as a commercial entity. 3 years back I called Tesco Clubcard in regards to my purchases and if these are within their terms. They said said it's fine as long as they are bought from one postal address and being used. I used all the items I purchased on this basis. The benefit to may was solely the points.

 

My argument is that if I broke the terms then it's due to ambiguity? My purchase history spans over 3 years, so my thinking was Tesco's silence is confirmation that I'm within their terms.

 

I appreciate everyones helps one this. I've very little knowledge in Law and I'm trying to check all my options which includes the possibility of going to court, but I don't want to waste money if I have no chance of succeeding.

[sequenci]

I would imagine that if it went to court the judge would have to, on the balance of probabilities, consider if you were acting as a consumer or a business.

 

The one question they will ask would be how many consumers purchase 500 mobile phones?

[perplexity]

Have you argued this with Tescos?

 

County Courts expect you to do all that is possible to sort it out for yourself before an attempt to increase their workload.

 

I have already pointed to the Enterprise Act, to define a consumer, and the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations. Put the question to Tescos and if you still disagree it should help at least to define whichever issue a judge is eventually to decide.

 

As a matter of common sense, it is simply not fair for Tescos to be their own judge and jury with an outcome in mind that they gain or lose because of.

 

If you're lucky there is somebody in charge of this at Tescos, with the honesty to admit to what exactly he has himself been instructed to do, and if you are very lucky they will tell you who it is.

 

8)

[Action it]

Thanks again for the input. I've explained all this to Tesco already but they've yet not budged. They've only started to contact me after I filled a case against them.

[perplexity]

I would be wary of citing the phone call to Tescos. Short of evidence as to what exactly was said it seems to me to show that you already knew you were pushing your luck.

 

[Action it]

Thanks Perplexity. They've offered £500 to take & drop the case which will lapse in 5 days time.

 

Anyone, should I take it & let this one go? I initially hoped I would have a strong court case.

[LittleMissHappy]

Maybe go back with a counter offer that you would be happy with. Bear in mind the time and effort you would spend on taking them to court. (and the fact you may not win)

 

Its all well and good starting these loyalty schemes but I don't think they should be able to benefit from the customers who shop with them, especially if they do so for the rewards.

[MARTIN3030]

If they have made an offer,then it demonstrates they are taking things seriously.

Maybe you can meet themhalf way ?

What exactly are you looking for ?

Of course you should be seeking to cover any costs for the time and resources you were using.

Up to you really,but if Tesco are showing a response,then thats somewhere to start from.

Was their offer without pred ?

[sailor sam]

Thanks Perplexity. They've offered £500 to take & drop the case which will lapse in 5 days time.

 

Anyone, should I take it & let this one go? I initially hoped I would have a strong court case.

 

For what exactly? As mentionerd by a few others, the club card scheme is to 'reward' their domestic retail customers. I (and obviously a few others) struggle to see how someone who purchases 500 mobile phones falls into that catagory. Now i'm not sure what Tesco quotes in their T & C's relating to this but you can bet that somewhere it will indicate that the scheme is aimed at bona fide domestic transactions so I think you will struggle to get a judge to believe that your purchase activities can be described as such.

 

Take the mony and run is my advice.

 

Please Note

 

 

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Please click my reputation button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[Kraken1]

take the money and run. I suspect if it ended up in court you'd get zip. You are being offered irritant money to make you go away, hence why it is no where near your claimed losses (5k iirc).

[Action it]

Hi All

 

The offer is indeed "without pred" & I must keep the matter confidential if I accept. I'll consider taking the offer up on the deadline. Hopefully my post, with everyones aid, will be useful to others.

 

It seems I may put on my running shoes but I would like to see more thoughts please.

[Action it]

Kraken1 is correct. The money is to make me go away considering court costs to Tesco & the inability the recover all costs via the small claims process.

 

They've told me bluntly in the letter that my case is weak & they've given me a time ltd to accept their offer. I can't negotiate as the person who made the offer is now offline until the deadline date. Having the time ltd has indeed worked for them as it's put added pressure on me.

 

They claim that they weren't aware of my buying behavior and it came to light due to the value of the points. I thought loyalty schemes recorded buying behaviour?

[perplexity]

There is not so much more to say. I had already opined that Tesco can't be expected to read the mind of a buyer.

 

It is conceivably possible to analyse the purchasing pattern of every user of a clubcard, as their point score progresses but even so the complaint would be the same. essentially, that they renege on a promise to honour the value of points already awarded.

 

Anyway, I am glad if this has caused them pause for thought. I never liked the manipulative nature of this sort of loyalty club scheme. Carrots on the end of stick are for donkeys to chase.

 

[MARTIN3030]

I posted a reply earlier but just see it didnt land (I have just returned from being away and internet conns were not good)

 

I said that the fact that Tesco was offering £500 demonstrates that they are taking this seriously.

Its up to you to decide what you where you want to go from here.

Personally I would be looking to recover any costs incurred to deal in addition to considered loss.

As most will know,a first offer should not be regarded as a final one even though they may indicate it is theirs.

In fact they are probably assuming that you are being advised not to accept their first offer-on the basis of how you have challenged them.

Given that they have made an offer,although not strictly resolution as far as you are concerned,from a Courts point of view,they have been actively trying to come to an agreement,which is a plus for them in the Courts eyes.

I dont know how much time you have spent in terms of time and resources trying to settle,but maybe a good idea to work it out and take the £500 with costs.

Up to you though.Its just a thought.

[MrShed]

It is conceivably possible to analyse the purchasing pattern of every user of a clubcard, as their point score progresses but even so the complaint would be the same. essentially, that they renege on a promise to honour the value of points already awarded.

 

I used to work for Tesco...the entire point of the scheme is exactly to analyse the purchasing pattern of their customers.

 

The points given are merely a "carrot" to get people involved in what is effectively their customer analysis program.

 

I can assure you that its not only conceivably possible, but is the fundamental reason for the scheme.

Edited October 22, 2010 by MrShed

[MARTIN3030]

Yes this is a good point,and equally I suspect applies to many other points/bonus schemes such as Boots Advantage card.

I used to have a cat,and bought cat food from Tesco-now and again I got money off vouchers for cat food not only from Tesco-but also others,.since the cat died I have not been buying cat food obviously-and neither have I had any vouchers since.

[sequenci]

I used to work for Boots. You're totally correct Martin!

[perplexity]

The question remains, none the less:

 

Is the purchasing pattern of a particular customer analysed as their point score progresses, which is to say that this is updated every time that a purchase is made, from the start, or is does it rather come to pass when an attempt is made to redeem the points, or is there some other basis?

 

If on the first occasion a customer buys no more than a compact disc or a mobile phone, I am not so sure that this could meaningfully be described as a purchasing pattern, though sure enough that this should not suffice to disqualify the buyer.

 

Before attempting to second guess the issue one should therefore wish to know exactly how Tesco arrive at their decision, of whether or not the customer was a person and a consumer. If whosoever is willing to give evidence to identify the algorithm, whatever criteria is used by Tescos to disqualify the buyer's claim, then we're in business, so to speak, or not as the case may be.

 

8)

[MrShed]

The question remains, none the less:

 

Is the purchasing pattern of a particular customer analysed as their point score progresses, which is to say that this is updated every time that a purchase is made, from the start, or is does it rather come to pass when an attempt is made to redeem the points, or is there some other basis?

 

If on the first occasion a customer buys no more than a compact disc or a mobile phone, I am not so sure that this could meaningfully be described as a purchasing pattern, though sure enough that this should not suffice to disqualify the buyer.

 

Before attempting to second guess the issue one should therefore wish to know exactly how Tesco arrive at their decision, of whether or not the customer was a person and a consumer. If whosoever is willing to give evidence to identify the algorithm, whatever criteria is used by Tescos to disqualify the buyer's claim, then we're in business, so to speak, or not as the case may be.

 

8)

 

Its certainly not only when the points are redeemed - if this were the case the point of the exercise from Tescos perspective would be largely nullified.

[perplexity]

Tesco's Clubcard Charter specifically refers to the customer being "contacted for research", to be sent mailings etcetera, so it's a given this is one of their purposes.

 

More to the point, if there is evidence of that to present, some sort of mailing or voucher that arrived in the mean time, I would call it proof positive that Tesco treated the clubcard member as a consumer.

 

[MARTIN3030]

Heres an interesting piece from 2005;

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2005/sep/20/freedomofinformation.supermarkets

[Action it]

I like your thinking. Thanks all, as this a very good point.

 

My purchasing behaviour has been going on for 3 years. Most clubcard offer coupons I've used but I do have a few still in my draw (from mailings and from the tills after making the purchases). The last bonus point voucher is dated June 2010.

 

Tesco confirmed they only found out recently of me abusing their system as they find out by either purchasing behaviour or the reward value (which they then investigate & this, the latter, happened in my case).

 

Thanks Martin3030 for the link. The article highlights that Tesco do record purchasing patterns. Maybe I can then argue either Tesco accepting me as a consumer or misled me for years & only took action when I tried to redeem my saved up rewards? They didn't even communicate the points being cancelled - I had to call them & they stated that they'll write a letter to me but this never happened & they claimed there's no one in a higher position that I can talk to. They didn't even get back to my record delivered letters. Tesco only started to correspond to me once I filled a court case against them.

 

Does all this make my case a bit stronger?