Prosecuted by FCC under 19 (1) AND 5 (3) c). Please, please any advice at all would be great.

[Barča]

I have spent the whole day in tears which normally I would solve by meeting up with a friend and talking things through over a bottle of wine but this time I really am too ashamed to tell even my closest friends. Plus they could not provide the same level of advice as the people on this forum. I have spent literally the entire day on these threads and think it's great there are people who are happy to help.

 

What happened to me started rather innocently. I sat in the nearest available seat on a First Capital Connect train From Welwyn North to King's Cross on my way to work one morning in August and didn't worry about it as I had a monthly season ticket. This was the first time I ever encountered a conductor on one of these trains (I had started my job in London in June). They advised me I was sat in first class, although it is quite hard to tell the difference when the train is so packed - that compartment was empty in comparison, but I didn't really see how it was different to the rest of the train. I think I must have sat in those seats on previous occasions also without even realising when the rest of the train got too full. I honestly didn't think about it as I thought I had some sort of a superior ticket covering everything, because £223 is loads! They also advised my ticket only covered standard class travel - obviously not so superior Anyway, I said if that's the case I said I would upgrade and the lady said "that's 20 quid then". For some reason, instead of paying and shutting up, I decided to argue about how unfair the situation is.

 

I got so into the frame of mind that it was "absulutely out of the question to pay £20 to upgrade to first class" - at this point that's what I thought it was, I didn't realise what they were doing was giving me a chance at paying the Penalty Charge. I believed this was so unfair when I spent so much on a monthly ticket and thought I had a right to take a seat on the train, especially as that particular carriage was much emptier than the others with free seats (now I know why... I honestly thought first class restrictions were only for long journeys, not commuter trains). When the conductor requested my details, I completely made up an address - somehow, in my stupid morning brain I thought this was the "fair" thing to do as "I clearly paid" and "did not deserve to be charged more". I am so ashamed now, it was just the pressure of the situation really and wanting to be left alone. I am not sure how I thought they were not going to check it out, but I certainly did not think this was a serious situation. I just thought it would be a bit of a laugh to see how things pan out. If by "a laugh" I mean getting questioned by the British Transport Police upon my arrival at King's Cross station and realising "oops, this is serious, I better give them my real details" then, yes, it was HILARIOUS (( I honestly don't know what was up with me that morning. I am a 26 year old girl, quite lively and generally happy-go-lucky taking things too lightly sometimes, but this was too much. So I provided my real details at that point to a female member if the British Transport Police. Luckily, st least she was sympathetic. She actually said she completely understood why I did it as the prices are ridiculous, but of course this still did not make it ok. What I am really upset about though is that at that stage, the FCC staff assured me that since I had done nothing like this ever in the past, they will not prosecute.

 

Two months later, I am facing prosecution and because I attempted to provide false details, this is being treated as a criminal offence and I am looking at a criminal record, up to £1,000 fine and the maximum penalty can be up to 3 months in prison. Not so funny now. I have just finished my Masters degree and started a dream career in London; however, with what may happen, this could be a short-lived one. I feel so stupid for not realising the seriousness of the situation there and then. I thought along the lines of "I have paid, they can't touch me" and it was this arrogance that made everything worse. I will do my best to settle out of court, but it is serious and they have no reason to agree to that really because, as I have found out now, under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 this is technically fraud. Such a small thing, yet it could mean that I may not be able to get a job with some companies that are strict about the checks they carry out on prospective employees, and if I do get a criminal record, I may never be able to travel to America. I am absolutely gutted and can't believe this has happened to me.

 

Do you guys think there is anything I can do to increase my chances of settling out of court? I have realised the seriousness of doing something like that and would never dream of doing this again. My family come from a country where honesty is a big thing in our culture and in my family and they'd be so disappointed. Also I would like to go to the US one day and I can't imagine not being able to. If anyone knows anything I could do to settle out of court and what a reasonable amount would be to offer, please let me know. I was told today over the phone by the Prosecution Department that I should send this in writing asap.

 

Any help is much appreciated and I am honestly really sorry about what I did.

[Stigy]

Unfortunately, the fact that you gave incorrect details initially, is deemed to be one more severe to the travelling in Fist Class when you shouldn't have been (5.3© Regulation of Railways Act (RRA)), and is the offence that is likely to cause you the most grief here. £1,000 and 3-months clink is worst case scenario and you'll never get that unless you've been very naughty indeed! If it goes to court and you're found guilty, the RRA offence is recordable, and could end up on the PNC (Police National Computer), but as I understand it, that's unlikely given that it's a non-CPS case.

 

The best thing you can do is either write to, or call FCC and ask how much they want to keep this out of court. Obviously tell them you've been really stupid and appologise profusely. Basically tell them what they want to hear. As I always say, it's in every company's best interest not to go to court, as they get all the money this way. They however, are not obliged to settle out of court!

 

Good Luck!

[Barča]

Thanks so much, I will do that. I spoke to them today and the person in charge of settlements etc. was out of the office but back on Monday so I left my details to speak to him - I will keep to your advice when I do so.

[SRPO]

They will require a reason not to prosecute, its not about paying your way out of court.

You will need to pay all the prosecution costs + say 15% (the costs are stated on the summons usually) & provide a reason why a prosecution would be disproportionate to the offence. I would suggest you say that a criminal record will effectively end your current career path & is therefore excessive for this uncharacteristic one off event.

Although Stigy is right that the rail companies would rather settle almost all matters out of court the prosecutors have a different view as they are 'officers of the court' and follow the prosecutors code rather than what their bosses may say.

1 reason they will not settle is if you have abused the staff in any way.

[Old-CodJA]

You ask the straightforward question "Do you guys think there is anything I can do to increase my chances of settling out of court? I have realised the seriousness of doing something like that and would never dream of doing this again."

 

For me the short answer is YES

 

I have had well over thirty years in this line of work and for a long time, the task of making decisions as to whether prosecution or settlement might be appropriate.

 

If I were you, I would repeat the bulk of your posting that you have made here as the core of your letter to the rail company. Edit out the bits referring to treating it as a joke and the bit where you and the BTP WPC suggest the fares are ridiculous.

 

In general, it is an excellent example of a well thought out and articulate appeal for a sympathetic hearing.

 

Add into your letter a declaration of your willingness to pay the fare due and the reasonable costs incurred by FCC in dealing with the matter. Offer your profuse apologies for an uncharacteristic and sorely regretted act and undertake never to travel without a fully valid ticket in future.

 

They do not have to accept your plea for leiency, but they will consider it.

 

This approach has the advantage for you in that if they reject your request and proceed to Court, you can plead guilty and submit your letter to the Magistrates as an illustration that you are apologetic, have learned a valuable lesson and had taken every opportunity to make good your mistake.

 

Good luck

Edited October 1, 2010 by Old-CodJA

[Wriggler7]

Not sure if Old Codja can tell us a time line, but I understand that all railways that prosecute will have their 'results' for recordable offences going onto the Criminal record 'by Christmas'.

[Grotesque]

Yes but that's 'Christmas' as in, 'It'll all be over by Christmas', if we know our Railways!

[Barča]

Hi everyone, thanks so much for your help so far - especially Stigy, SRPO & Old-CodJA - thank you SO MUCH for taking the time to write such detailed responses, I really appreciate it. It is really great to have people on here who really know about this stuff. I have spoken with the person in charge of my case today and overall he was very smpathetic and gave me an idea of an amount I should be suggesting (btw, OUCH!), but he was not able to promise anything so I don't want to jinx it... Just composing my letter as per Old-CodJA's advice and I will come back here to let you know what happens. Still really scared though and, above all, so embarrassed. Thanks again guys...

[Stigy]

Always welcome

 

Let us know what happens!

 

Good Luck!

[Barča]

Hi! I am officially not a criminal, but I am a substabtial amount poorer... let's say I could've bought the new laptop I've needed for a while instead of this, but I guess I have paid for the experience so to speak. FCC called me back today in response to the letter I posted yesterday (quick turnaround) and agreed to the amount I offered. I paid by card over the phone and they will send me a confirmation that the matter is settled and there will be no further action. I am so relieved and will definitely NEVER risk anything like this again. Thanks again everyone for the amazing help & support!! xx

[Stigy]

Hi! I am officially not a criminal' date=' but I am a substabtial amount poorer... let's say I could've bought the new laptop I've needed for a while instead of this, but I guess I have paid for the experience so to speak. FCC called me back today in response to the letter I posted yesterday (quick turnaround) and agreed to the amount I offered. I paid by card over the phone and they will send me a confirmation that the matter is settled and there will be no further action. I am so relieved and will definitely NEVER risk anything like this again. Thanks again everyone for the amazing help & support!! xx[/quote']

Although costly, this is the better of the two results you could have hoped for, as you probably agree!

[silly11]

A good result!

 

A question if it's ok?

 

On my thread and most others the most common advice is to sit tight for a letter. But Barca seems to have got the result I want/need by being proactive in getting in touch with the train company involved. Would I still do well to sit tight?

 

Sorry if I seem rude by asking - I'm getting delirious through spending too much time looking at Railway Acts

[Stigy]

A good result!

 

A question if it's ok?

 

On my thread and most others the most common advice is to sit tight for a letter. But Barca seems to have got the result I want/need by being proactive in getting in touch with the train company involved. Would I still do well to sit tight?

 

Sorry if I seem rude by asking - I'm getting delirious through spending too much time looking at Railway Acts

Barca had already received a letter from FCC as the offence occured 2-months previous to when she posted here. Yours is slightly different as it has only just happened and I'm assuming you've yet to receive a letter from Southern. Just sit tight!

[silly11]

Barca had already received a letter from FCC as the offence occured 2-months previous to when she posted here. Yours is slightly different as it has only just happened and I'm assuming you've yet to receive a letter from Southern. Just sit tight!

 

And I'm now at the point where I'm not even reading OP's correctly *sigh*

 

I shall stick to the original advice then

[Wriggler7]

The problems with being 'pro-active' are many. In the first instance, if the prosecution team has not yet had the report, they will have nothing to file your call/letter with.

 

If they have nothing better to do, they will find out who the Inspector was that spoke with you, and chase up the report, which the Inspector might have forgotten to write! (Before all the Inspectors rise in anger and say 'I never forget nuffin', maybe he wrote it and his team leader put it in a drawer and forgot about it)

 

Many years ago, I found myself looking into the sad story of a man who assaulted a ticket inspector on the day of an England v Mexico football match. He was arrested by a (for obvious reasons) nameless Police Officer, missed watching the game on the telly, spending his afternoon in the cosy and comfortable cells of a local police station. No question about it, he was guilty. The constable managed to fail to get the paperwork done, the case failed at the second hurdle. CPS were unhappy, the ticket Inspector must have been pretty unhappy, the Constable was already in the throws of early (medical) retirement. If the defendant/defence had been pro-active, the defendant would probably have spent 6 weeks watching telly in one of Her Majesties hotels.

 

So be patient, wait for their first letter, then formulate your response.

[Stigy]

If they have nothing better to do, they will find out who the Inspector was that spoke with you, and chase up the report, which the Inspector might have forgotten to write! (Before all the Inspectors rise in anger and say 'I never forget nuffin', maybe he wrote it and his team leader put it in a drawer and forgot about it)

Although not a Revenue Inspector, I'm guilty of forgetfulness as far as the odd MG11 goes, although I now have a reletively fail-safe system in place! Myforgetfulness is usually regarding evidence though...

[Wriggler7]

Well, if you forget the evidence, I might have to defend against your cases!

[Stigy]

Well, if you forget the evidence, I might have to defend against your cases!

I'd like to think NO MG11 would get past the prosecutions team without the evidence where applicable!