Hi all, Does anyone know if it says anywhere that we are actually bound to accept an Unpaid Fare Notice when it is issued? I did not accept one and now have a letter through the post as if I did. DETAILS____ A month, or so, back I boarded a later train from Leeds to London after missing my train 10 mins before. The guard (forcefully) tried to hand me an Unpaid Fare Notice after it was clear I could not pay the inflated price for the service. I gave my proper details when asked and told the guard that I would not be accepting the UFN and that if they wanted to settle things they could send me a bill through the post - which I would then dispute. I did not accept the terms of the Notice and felt it had been misleadingly presented to me. origianal ticket was £69 --- UFN was £124. I would not have boarded the train had I known the price of the ticket + BTW the train was by no means full! I believe I have a case to argue but want to check that I was not obliged by law to accept the notice, there and then. I feel i'm in for the long haul with fighting this so want to start off well! Thanks in advance!

Hi all, I have been prosecuted and set a summon for not having a train tkt during a revenue check by southern rail at Gatwick airport. I plead not guilty and I due for a hearing on the 31st of Jan. in frotn of the Magistrate Court As I cannot afford a lawyer I am defending my self with little knowledge apart what I can read on line. Here the facts: back in September I took a train in a hurry at East Croydon Station with the idea that I could do a train ticket (tkt) on the same train. That's what I always knew since I have done it in the past (I have proof for that). This time a tkt officer did not pass by so I was gonna go at Gatwick tkt office to pay the train tkt for that same journey. Once off the train a revenue check was in action at the gate. As I saw them instantly I also saw a revenue officer before them dealing with a customer and I APPROACHED HIM waiting till he finished. When my turn came I explained the situation and asked kindly if I could do the ticket paying him. He said it was not possible and that I had to pay a Penalty Fare(PF). I refused to do so as I believed was not fare for the fact that I did my tkt on the train in the past, He said that it was not possible to do a tkt on the train. I refused to pay the PCN but he wrote a Witness Statement (WS) which I signed. The statement is a standard one where he put the case as he stopped me, asks me a tkt and I had not tkt to show hence the PF. There is part of the WS where the question is... 'I put it to you, that if I had not stopped you today, your rail fare would have been avoided. is that correct?'... My reply on the WS: 'I was going to the office to buy the tkt' . The officer said:' Why did you refuse a penalty fare?' I replied:'The gate was open at East Croydon and the train to Gatwick was arriving. I took the chance to do the tkt on the train as I have done in the past." I then signed it reading it quite quickly even realizing soon after that the way it was put it was as he had stopped me but I was the person to approach him. The prosecution in fact is based on the fact that I was stopped. I also asked a copy of the statement and he refused to give me one even if they had a double carbon copy there , he also asked to another officer in the distance and he confirmed that I should not be given any copy. Is this possible? It should be our right to have a copy. Before receiving the summon I exchanged few letters with the Prosecutor where I re-wrote my statement explaining again the situation and how the facts went including the fact that I had done a tkt on the train in the past with no Penalty and that I had proof. Those were not accepted and they asked for a Summon. The prosecutor in this letter says also: ''You will have noted that if a conductor sells a tkt on board one of our trains the tkt is endorsed with a Penalty Fare Warning as conductors are not licensed by DfT to issue Penalty Fare notice.' When I buy the tkt on the train I thought that's it I am done, I am not going to read the terms and condition behind the tkt . How many people would do that? Also in those terms and condition there is nothing saying that 'conductors are not licensed by DfT to issue Penalty Fare notice hence a warning is issued'. I think all should be more fair and clear to citizens. A lawyer gave me a free 1st consultation saying that he noted that: - You have pleaded not guilty to the offence. Hence, you will now no longer need to attend the Court on 23 December 2011 for the summons. The Court will now write to you with a new date for the trial. Please note that it is likely that the prosecution costs will also increase. - You will be appearing at Court because you could not produce a valid ticket for your train journey. The offence under which this relates is 18 (2) of the Railway Byelaws. The section states; 'A person shall hand over his ticket for inspection and verification of validity when asked to do so by an authorised person.' The potential defences to this are contained within 18 (3) of the Byelaws. I do not think that you have a defence under these as they are essentially when there are no facilities, a notice stating you do not need to pay, or permission to travel without a valid ticket. However, under section 2 it states that you should show a valid ticket when asked to do so. You may have a defence here as you were not asked to show a ticket by the inspector, instead, you approached him. You will have to confirm if he ever actually asked you for a ticket. Could I argue the inconsistency of the operate of Southern rail because I have done the ticket on the train before? On their Terms & Condition there is a point saying (I was not aware of all the Terms & Cond. till I read them now): "Can I pay at my destination if I am in a rush? No, if you board on a train with no ticket, then you may] have to pay a Penalty Fare." I am underlining the word MAY which I believe is a further point to argue as they may issue or may not issue the ticket Could this be a winning case? is anyone gone through a similar situation? Still did not understand if this is a criminal or civil matter. I also fee that the statement should had been sent to me before the summon and when there was a first conversation with the Prosecutor where initially was offered to me to pay 35 pounds to resolve the matter. Reading the Witness statement I signed, I could have remembered what I said or how it was putted from their side so for me maybe deciding differently and may be paying the sum. Or point put to the prosecutor that I was to approach them not that I was stopped so to make them think twice. Who knows! Would be nice also to know whai and if I could ask money back for damage or else in case I win. I have no idea how it works for this in Court. I look forward to hearing from some one back!...

Yesterday I received a £20 penalty fare at Waterloo. Later that day I discovered that the ticket inspectors are supposed to offer you the chance to pay the penalty fare upfront- this one didn't, he insisted upon me giving my details of address so that SWT could bill me the fare which is a real inconvenience as I'm at University and don't live at home much these days. When I asked him if I could pay it upfront he said that I couldn't because he'd already started filling out the form- but this is not in line with SWT policy on penalty fares. I've heard that the penalty fare can be paid online but I'm still irritated that SWT now have me on record and can use this case against me in the future. Have I been mistreated here? Is there such a thing as appealing against the unfair retention of my personal information? Would I be likely to succeed in such an appeal? Thanks.

I have recently been looking for train tickets to London and almost had heart failure when the prices per person were coming in at £80+ (advance bookings) and over £100 for later bookings. This was for standard economy as I dont believe in paying extra for sitting on the same train, occuring the same delays and drinking the same coffee / tea! Anyhow I came across megabus. For the same train / time / date / stations (both bookings exactly the same) it is costing me £16.00 for 2 returns, with VIRGIN!!! Now I thought there must be a catch and so I asked around. Apparently its all above board. I checked on here and couldnt see any thread about it. Now with the summer hols coming closer each day, some of you parents will be using the trains...go grab a bargain...dont waste your money! www.megabus.com You will need to select your country (UK, USA, etc) and register....which costs nothing! Also if you collect Tesco club rewards for every £1 of vouchers, you get £2 off your fare. I had £5.00 of club rewards so I changed it up at www.tesco.com , was sent e-vouchers within minutes and got £10 off my £16 so I only actually paid £6.50 (50p booking fee applies to all bookings) for 2 returns to London Euston from Liverpool!!! Couple of downsides (which are not really downsides when you look at them) are: 1. Its not always a train...you are given options of coach or train...with coach taking a lot longer 2. Stations and coach pick ups tend to be in major towns / cities...but for a couple quid on the local train network you can get to these without much trouble A friend has just booked her flight from US to Gatwick and is coming to Liverpool on a coach for £1.00!!!

I have spent the whole day in tears which normally I would solve by meeting up with a friend and talking things through over a bottle of wine but this time I really am too ashamed to tell even my closest friends. Plus they could not provide the same level of advice as the people on this forum. I have spent literally the entire day on these threads and think it's great there are people who are happy to help. What happened to me started rather innocently. I sat in the nearest available seat on a First Capital Connect train From Welwyn North to King's Cross on my way to work one morning in August and didn't worry about it as I had a monthly season ticket. This was the first time I ever encountered a conductor on one of these trains (I had started my job in London in June). They advised me I was sat in first class, although it is quite hard to tell the difference when the train is so packed - that compartment was empty in comparison, but I didn't really see how it was different to the rest of the train. I think I must have sat in those seats on previous occasions also without even realising when the rest of the train got too full. I honestly didn't think about it as I thought I had some sort of a superior ticket covering everything, because £223 is loads! They also advised my ticket only covered standard class travel - obviously not so superior Anyway, I said if that's the case I said I would upgrade and the lady said "that's 20 quid then". For some reason, instead of paying and shutting up, I decided to argue about how unfair the situation is. I got so into the frame of mind that it was "absulutely out of the question to pay £20 to upgrade to first class" - at this point that's what I thought it was, I didn't realise what they were doing was giving me a chance at paying the Penalty Charge. I believed this was so unfair when I spent so much on a monthly ticket and thought I had a right to take a seat on the train, especially as that particular carriage was much emptier than the others with free seats (now I know why... I honestly thought first class restrictions were only for long journeys, not commuter trains). When the conductor requested my details, I completely made up an address - somehow, in my stupid morning brain I thought this was the "fair" thing to do as "I clearly paid" and "did not deserve to be charged more". I am so ashamed now, it was just the pressure of the situation really and wanting to be left alone. I am not sure how I thought they were not going to check it out, but I certainly did not think this was a serious situation. I just thought it would be a bit of a laugh to see how things pan out. If by "a laugh" I mean getting questioned by the British Transport Police upon my arrival at King's Cross station and realising "oops, this is serious, I better give them my real details" then, yes, it was HILARIOUS (( I honestly don't know what was up with me that morning. I am a 26 year old girl, quite lively and generally happy-go-lucky taking things too lightly sometimes, but this was too much. So I provided my real details at that point to a female member if the British Transport Police. Luckily, st least she was sympathetic. She actually said she completely understood why I did it as the prices are ridiculous, but of course this still did not make it ok. What I am really upset about though is that at that stage, the FCC staff assured me that since I had done nothing like this ever in the past, they will not prosecute. Two months later, I am facing prosecution and because I attempted to provide false details, this is being treated as a criminal offence and I am looking at a criminal record, up to £1,000 fine and the maximum penalty can be up to 3 months in prison. Not so funny now. I have just finished my Masters degree and started a dream career in London; however, with what may happen, this could be a short-lived one. I feel so stupid for not realising the seriousness of the situation there and then. I thought along the lines of "I have paid, they can't touch me" and it was this arrogance that made everything worse. I will do my best to settle out of court, but it is serious and they have no reason to agree to that really because, as I have found out now, under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 this is technically fraud. Such a small thing, yet it could mean that I may not be able to get a job with some companies that are strict about the checks they carry out on prospective employees, and if I do get a criminal record, I may never be able to travel to America. I am absolutely gutted and can't believe this has happened to me. Do you guys think there is anything I can do to increase my chances of settling out of court? I have realised the seriousness of doing something like that and would never dream of doing this again. My family come from a country where honesty is a big thing in our culture and in my family and they'd be so disappointed. Also I would like to go to the US one day and I can't imagine not being able to. If anyone knows anything I could do to settle out of court and what a reasonable amount would be to offer, please let me know. I was told today over the phone by the Prosecution Department that I should send this in writing asap. Any help is much appreciated and I am honestly really sorry about what I did.