DVLA - Continuous Liscencing Issue

[dom2599]

Hi All,

 

In March this year the better half part ex'd her car for a new car, we paid to have the private plate transferred to the new one, no problems, we got all the new V5 and new tax disc's through the post, duly sent of the correct slip to say the car had been sold etc etc.

 

Three months later we get a letter from the Continuous Liscencing Dept saying that the reg number ******* has not been taxed so your in bother:???: We sent the acknowledgment letter with regards selling the other car and explained that the new car with the private reg is taxed and asked whats going on.

 

We get another letter a month or so later stating prove it or your in the poo:evil: So we send of a clear photo copy of the valid tax disc as requested, a week later another letter stating 'we are investigating'

 

A couple of days before the current tax disc ran out at the end of August, the better half comes in from work saying she has just passed a DVLA van parked at the side of the road with the camera out the back and is worried about all the carry on with the DVLA etc, i say dont worry about it. I tried to tax the car online the follwoing day, the details on line says 'Not Liscenced' so will lose a months tax, the follwoing day i go to my local DVLA office and explain as above, they take photo copy of the disc, receipt for car etc etc, they were very helpful and i got a tax disc for the full six months.

 

Today we have got a fine for not having the car taxed for the past six months.......ARRRRGGGHHH they say they are taking us to court blah blah......what is it with these idiots.....ive got the tax disc to prove it!!!!!!

 

Sorry about the rant but what is it with this Ms Wooley person at the DVLA??

[buzby]

Too many issues, and not sure what the problem is. When you transferred your Private Plate, you would have been allocated a replacement number to the original vehicle. If you subsequently sold this, you would have to have got the new owner to sign the V5C and become the new RK for it. Don;t do this, and you're liability for BOTH vehicles will continue.

 

For your private reg car, what does it say when you check the VRM online? It will tell you when the VED is due to expire, and you can work back when the disc was issued. If there was a gap (with no SORN), it is this they are pursuing you for.

[dom2599]

Hi Buzby,

 

Thanks for the reply, i think i was more venting off than anything else.

 

When we bought the car and part ex'd the old, the dealer transfered the private plate at the local DVLA office, a couple of days later we get all the updated V5's and new tax discs etc, the correct slips were signed and posted with regards to the part ex and the acknowledgement letter received a couple of weeks later.

The car we bought was taxed for 6 months as per the deal by the dealer and a tax disc was issued by the DVLA which ended at the end of August, but their system shows as the car not being licenced, even though we have a valid tax disc!?

I've sent a letter and more photo copies of the correspondence so far and a copy of the tax disc and an accompanying letter to the fines people to show that not only do we have a tax disc to cover the disputed period, but that its an on going issue with another office (dont their databases communicate with each other?) i have basically told them that i want the issue sorting in 7 days or take me to court and i'll show the judge the tax disc in person

[buzby]

The trouble is, they'll never let you get near a court as like TV licencing, much of it is bluff and bluster, with some intimidation thrown in. Assuming you;ve provided them with a copy of the relevant VED, you've discharged your obligation to prove they vehicle was correctly taxed (the VRM is the same, yes?). After than, just reject their incorrect assertions (rather than ignore) and keep a copy of all correspondence.

[dom2599]

Hi buzby,

 

I've told them to either resolve it in 7 days or i'm of to speak with my local MP (he's new and very keen) and i'll ask him to speak with the powers that be

 

I think because there is now a fine involved i think they'll try their luck in court.....i really hope they do!!

[buzby]

No, 'fines' are applied without reference to court. (It saveas a lot of hassle, especially since they have the powers to instruct Bailiffs in the same way Councils do. This way, they get the enforcement, and the motorist is denied his arbiter.

[Raykay]

Although DVLA try very hard with their debt collectors etc. to get you to pay before taking you to court, it depends what they are claiming:

If it is the Late Licensing Penalty, which is a civil matter, if it is not paid it could end up at at County Court.

If it is an out of court settlement offer for not having a licence, which is a criminal matter, if it is not paid it could end up at Magistrates Court.

[dom2599]

Although DVLA try very hard with their debt collectors etc. to get you to pay before taking you to court, it depends what they are claiming:

If it is the Late Licensing Penalty, which is a civil matter, if it is not paid it could end up at at County Court.

If it is an out of court settlement offer for not having a licence, which is a criminal matter, if it is not paid it could end up at Magistrates Court.

 

Hi RayKay,

 

Thats the problem, they are stating that the car is unlicenced, but i can produce a valid tax disc for the car for that period, we also now have a fine for the alleged unlicenced vehicle. It seems that because their computer says 'No' then it must be correct and all logical thinking goes out of the window. I've also asked them to scan the bar code on the tax disc (this must surely show when, where and how the disc was issued?) but they wouldnt do it at my local DVLA office!?

They have got until 17.00 hrs on friday this week then i will contact my local MP to raise it with the Secretary for Transport, as Mrs Woolley seems to like writing on her letters that this is who she is working on behalf off

[buzby]

The barcode only provides the serial numbewr of the VED, which includes the Expirty date. It does not however include any date of issue, cost paid, or any other variable data.

[dom2599]

I've just sent of a FOI request to them, ive asked them how many vehicles have been marked as unlicensed, then re-classifed as licensed after it has been proved incorrect........although looking at some of the other FOI's, they dont seem to keep any statistical info at all!?

 

Buzby, that sounds about right about the barcode, just think of all the extra (useful) data they could attach to a barcode like that, if they did i dont think i would be having the issue now.

 

Also, when i spoke to my local office, they said that they would send of for the microsfiche (do people still use these??) with regards to the original application, if there was an issue with that application, would they not have wrote stating the problem?

[buzby]

From memory, there was a report that require microfiche to be retained, in the event of a catastrophic loss of data. there would still be (at least) images of the paper record that could be accessed (mirroring the Birth, Marriage & Deathc records). Maybe they'll get round to relaxing it, but the end of fiche records isn't over yet!

[dom2599]

From memory, there was a report that require microfiche to be retained, in the event of a catastrophic loss of data. there would still be (at least) images of the paper record that could be accessed (mirroring the Birth, Marriage & Deathc records). Maybe they'll get round to relaxing it, but the end of fiche records isn't over yet!

 

I'm not against that type of way of holding historic data, but whens it's taking over 3 months with no end in sight with regards to coming up with the information, i thinks its taking the biscuit a bit.....anyway, for them the clock is ticking......just another thought, if there was an issue that came to light after the disc was issued, would they have sent letters and chased it? thats the only reason i can think of that the car was showing as unlicensed.....or have they made a mistake their end, after all they're only human!

[buzby]

Human...? C'mon now!

[dom2599]

Just a quick update, we have had a letter from the DVLA in Preston, they have stated that the disc was issued by their manchester office after the cherished plate was transferred incorrectly and that i should have also noticed that the price on the tax disc was also the incorrect price??! they state that they now require that the back tax is paid asap.....now, if we have made a mistake here, then fair enough i have no issues with paying the tax owed, what i doi have an issue with is the length of time it has taken them to inform me, funnily enough 6 months, and that in that period unknown to us we have been driving round with an incorrectly issued tax disc which has now also generated a fine from another of there offices......

 

Any advice on what to do next? pay the back tax and ask them to get rid of the fine? they already admitted in the letter it is their mistake?

[buzby]

I'd respond along the lines of with the recent and ongoing changes to VED, you could not be expected to be aware of any anomaly as you simply paid what was asked by the DVLA. Therefore, you look forward to an apology for their error, and seek confirmation that on receipt of their revised amount required to tax the vehicle, that (a) the amount now stipulated is correct, and you will not have to suffer again due to their error. (b) that all fines and charges made against you will be cancelled with immediate effect, due to the errors being soley of DVLA's making.

 

You are returning the original VED as supplied (take a copy), and a cheque in payment of the 'new' amount for the VED. Encashment of your cheque for the is conditional of their agreement to cancel any and all pursuit in respect of the previous (incorrect) VED and matters relating thereto.

[dom2599]

I'd respond along the lines of with the recent and ongoing changes to VED, you could not be expected to be aware of any anomaly as you simply paid what was asked by the DVLA. Therefore, you look forward to an apology for their error, and seek confirmation that on receipt of their revised amount required to tax the vehicle, that (a) the amount now stipulated is correct, and you will not have to suffer again due to their error. (b) that all fines and charges made against you will be cancelled with immediate effect, due to the errors being soley of DVLA's making.

 

You are returning the original VED as supplied (take a copy), and a cheque in payment of the 'new' amount for the VED. Encashment of your cheque for the is conditional of their agreement to cancel any and all pursuit in respect of the previous (incorrect) VED and matters relating thereto.

 

Hi Buzby,

 

I'll look in to doing that, although the way the letter is word quite cleary means, we are wrong, but it's your fault you never noticed we were wrong!!

 

I think i will have an issue with regards to the fine as this is with a different office, and as what seems to be quite plain, they dont speak with each other

 

I'm also raising the issue now with my local MP, so i'll see what he says before i pay anything

[dom2599]

I've now typed a letter for them using some of buzby's lines.....it's funny that they took over 6 months to notice the issue, but want payment within 14 days! I've also sent an email to my local MP, i'm going to ask him to take a look if he can, i would use their complaints process but if they are as arrogant as what their letters are, then i dont hold out any hope.

Question, if the cash my cheque, then still chase for the fine, would i be able to pay the fine (to keep the baillifs away) then start small claims procedings against the DVLA to claim it back, as they have sent a letter admitting it was their fault?

[buzby]

That's about it - but bearing in mind their incompetence, I'd be as stubborn as they are. Once your cheque is presented for payment, you then send a RD letter to the debt pursuing you, enclosing a copy of your letter noting you payment terms. Declaring that if they have any issues, to seek redress from the other DVLA department.

 

For good measure, add to this you will fully defend your interest in court if need be, further should they attempt to instruct bailiffs without the relevant opportunity to have the matter aired in court, you will take all necessary steps to discourage their pursuit, and the costs for this recovered from the DVLA. You hope this will not be necessary?

[dom2599]

Hi buzby, i certainly are going to be as awkward as they are, i never thought of sending a letter to the other office with regards to the fine.......but i will now

I have also had a response from my local MP, he has asked for all the case numbers and copies of the letters, so hopefully a couple of cages will be rattled soon

[buzby]

It's really a game. We're the cannon fodder as far as the DVLA is concerned. ('Civil Servants? Don't make me laugh!). But a tidy paper trail and some noises to the MP often pay dividends, so I think it is looking good!

[dom2599]

Just a quick update, i have had a response from my local MP, he has been in touch with regards to this issue and he is awaiting a response from them......fingers crossed.

[dom2599]

Update - Today received a letter from the DVLA dept that have issued the fine, they have acknowledged that my MP has been in touch and is now representing me. The biggest thing that stands out in the letter is the tone, the arrogance is gone, compared to the other letters it's quite refreshing.

I must say that if anyone else is having problems with this shower, then they should contact their MP to help, the more that know about this shambles of a department the better

[dom2599]

Result!!!! Had 2 letters from the DVLA this morning, one stating that they have cashed the cheque for the outstanding VED, although they did state that the amount requested by them was incorrect and i owed less! you just couldnt make it up! and that they are refunding the rest.

The other letter was from the head of customer services and they have basically said that we have been treated appalingly and that the 'catologue of errors' created by his staff, he has reminded them? about the high standard expected, lol he also mention my MP i got involved and that ALL fines issued during this period have been cancelled and they have invited me to complain to the ICA if i wish to.

 

If anyone has been folowing this, i would really recommend getting your MP involved with these people as they certainly would nt have listened to me otherwise.

Big thanks to buzby for your advice m8....cheers

[buzby]

Anytime! The important thing is you got it sorted, and learned even more about the power of CAG!