1st Credit & LCS Battle - court papers received - help

[newman]

OK Chaps - I am taking the advice I was given by a lovely site team member on the phone yesterday and putting yesterday behind me.

 

I am taking the rest of the day off now. I have to do this to recharge - many carbs & protein have been consumed this morning and I am hitting the pool and gym hard for the rest of the afternoon. My enemies in Surrey have robbed me of a week out of my training schedule so thats not on.

 

By tonight, I will rested for a few hours, prayed many prayers, swum a couple of miles, lifted an obscene amount of heavy objects and the punch bag will be very sorry I ever went to the gym today. All will be well in my world and my head again very soon and Round two can then commence!!!!!

 

I will post all my questions another time - i am sure they can wait a wee while.

 

In the meantime if you have time – have a look at this video which just about sums it all up -

 

 

its fantastic and the start sums it all up really as appollo creed said to Rocky after Rock lost to clubber lang – “You lost that fight Rock (newman) for all the wrong reasons You lost your edge. now when we fought you had the eye of the tiger man, the edge, and the way to get it back is to go back to the beginning – you know what man, maybe we can win it together. EYE OF THE TIGER MAN

 

Well we all know who won the next rematch!!

 

 

Dum dum dummmmmm dum dum dummmmmmm da da daaaah, da da da da daaaaaah, da da daaaaaaaah, da da da da daaaah its the eye of the tiger.

 

Once Again you lovely people - thank you thank you thank you!!!

Edited December 1, 2011 by newman

[newman]

## update ##

 

have removed docs for now.

watch this space

Edited December 1, 2011 by newman

[DonkeyB]

Wonder if majic had downloaded them?

[newman]

DOnkey tell me does Majic know 1st C then -

 

Any 1st Cr employee will be able to go to LCS office and have a look at the docs as these have now been received yesterday morning.

 

Anyway theres nothing in my 27 pages that isnt in this thread so as mr T watts and the rest of the lovely people in Surrey have been reading this thread they can see what has been said.

 

OK my official complaint to the OFT is now ready to go tomorrow morning - I think they will be very interested to hear of the naughty things that these bad boys have been doing recently.

 

BTW donkey where is the best place to make an offical complaint about the verbal and written harrasment side of things?

Edited December 1, 2011 by newman

[DonkeyB]

Well, I’m always suspicious of someone who follows the thread avidly but has not posted for four years. Someone who has already been accused of being a troll. Someone who pops up all the time on only one thread.

 

To download certain files, you need to be a CAG member, so your 1st Credit viewer will almost certainly have a CAG identity. Just keep watching and see who pops up.. but does not contribute.

 

You need to invoke 1st Crud’s complaints procedure and exhaust that first. Then you can go to the FOS. You can complain to the OFT any time.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

:wave:I see majic is viewing now :spy:

[Undercover-Elsa]

Must be his shift while DW2009 is off

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

He's was lurking for some time this morning:madgrin:

[newman]

Well, I’m always suspicious of someone who follows the thread avidly but has not posted for four years. Someone who has already been accused of being a troll. Someone who pops up all the time on only one thread.

 

To download certain files, you need to be a CAG member, so your 1st Credit viewer will almost certainly have a CAG identity. Just keep watching and see who pops up.. but does not contribute.

 

You need to invoke 1st Crud’s complaints procedure and exhaust that first. Then you can go to the FOS. You can complain to the OFT any time.

 

Ah right I see. Well then the best thing then I suggest is those member who know me already have my private email and so maybe I wont post the docs - let me take some advice about that - what do you think. if Majic and DW 2009 are connected to 1st crdit then it wont matter but my main reason for wanting to post these documents is hopefully to help anyone else who is fighting this bunch or any other bunch of low lifes to hopefully be able to benefit from the 650 hours + that I have spent since 1st credit staretd to unlawfully pursue me for an alleged debt that they havent yet established thet they have a legitimate claim over.

 

I really hope I get a chance to submit my timesheet because my daily rate for consultancy is comparable to Mr Smiths from yesterday. getting awarded £500 for just turning up at court is money for old rope if you ask me.

 

Tell me DOnkey here is a question I have been pondering.

 

I submitted the "unless" order to give 1st Cr 7 days to comply or a strike out would have been in place. Am I right in thinking that once I have submitted my defence statement I then have the right to see true copies of every piece of documentation they are going to use in court. Do they have to give disclosure at that point because obviously if they didnt disclose this would give them a very unfair advantage? depending on your answer I then will have one or maybe two other questions.

 

thanks

[DonkeyB]

As this is fast track, there should have been disclosure at the start! I think Mr Riley O’Really O’No was talking pure tosh. Refer to CPR about disclosure. It’s a good read.

[newman]

As this is fast track, there should have been disclosure at the start! I think Mr Riley O’Really O’No was talking pure tosh. Refer to CPR about disclosure. It’s a good read.

##UPDATE##

Well Donkey you should have heard the pure unadulterated drivel that came out of this guys mouth - oh BTW that is my opinion and of course I might be wrong!!!! So many times he stated the defendant is not entitled to this and that and the other - and there is no need for my client to adhere to CPR in civil matters (my interpretation) sir. Throw out his witness statement as the defendant clearly doesnt have a clue how to submit one - why your worhsipfullness he had the audacity to enter the statement with single spacing sir!!! what a crime that was.

 

Sir this WS should be totally disregarded" - well it wasnt only the request for the "unless" order wasnt granted and he slashed the ridiculous claim for expenses in half. So that has been noted for when I submit my timesheet for 650 hours at my normal consultacy rate. !!!!!!!!!!

 

Mr Smith initially seemed like a very nice chap and from the investigation that my team has done for me since yesterday morning it appears he has acted for consumer against banks, however in this case 1st Cr have used him instead of Mr Watts the paralegal man or their "lead solcitior".

 

So my immediate thought when Mr Smith came into our room and said "hello (big smile and very friendly but very expensive suit on) , have you submitted any other documents to the court" was that he was being friendly, however after saying to him "well apart form the 27 page witness statement and the other 73 pages of Exhibits no I havent submitted anything else" and then we were kept waiting for at least another half an hour we thought the court had seen someone else first, however, whe we got in there Mr Smith immediatley thanked the judge for allowing him to see his copies of the paperwork!!

 

So it was no more Mr nice guy.

 

When he did get his opportunity to speak it was clear that the" is impossible to prepare a defence without the docs" comment was really all he could hang his hat on. He tried everytjhing he could to ge the DJ to throw out my WS and my 3 exhibits and why "because I had submitted them so late" - how rich was that when Mr T - Watts never posted his docs to me with no mor ethan 10 days to spare and then they have the bare face cheek to try the "oh lets get the CAG forum discredited" Witness statement. Cheeky monkeys, made sure the pile of c**p they put togehter only got to me Sat morning. Stupidity almost beyond belief - is what my opinion is about that latest trick.

 

A Pathetic attempt - that that just needed to be treated with the contempt it deserved but which I am sure the OFT are going to absolutely love when they get my report tomorrow morning!!!!

 

Well even though Mr Smith gave a better theatrical performance than me yesterday he had no responses what so ever to the many statements I made about no default notice, no LBA's, 1st Cr registering a default on my credit file without my knowledge, the prolonged harrasment, the fact that I asserted strongly that the account is still in dispute, the totally fraudulent attempt from 1st Cr to try to claim interest for a period when the acc was in default and also to try to fraudulently claim statupory interest ect etc etc . Absolutely no comment from him whatsoever nor from the judge either it has to be said.

 

The judge just asked me lots of questions and made loads of notes. "so you never received a default notice" again and again - "oh and was there a LBA sent out? - "No Sir " i replied, and did you recieve any notification of the intention to register a default? - "No Sir" and so on and so forth.

 

I did get a verbal slap on the wrists once but then again I did interrupt the DJ whilst he was speaking.

 

I guess he could see that I was very passionate and hopefully sincere about my stance and I think he gave me some leeway as he knew I was a very inexperienced LIP. He did make a comment something like "it seems you have had some legal advice" to which I replied something like "yes sir I have a team of very qualified legal experts who have been adivising me on a pro bono basis and I have taken their adivce totally as well as verifying for myself the facts"

 

So Donkey even though this bunch of #~#~~##~}'s have successfully dodged their way out of their statutory obligations, who really cares because to prove they have a legitimate claim my legal team have advised me that they are going to have to come up with all the original signed agreements if they want to enforce the two piles of tosh they say they are going to be relying on in court as what the photocopied papers they have sent to be honest prove absolutely nothing at all - they certainly dont prove they have anything to do with me whatsoever - and again there was no arguments when I made this statement yesterday. the two so called "reconstituted agreements" are so vastly different in several areas that it would appear that one could be a variation of the other - (if that is any of them is anything to do with me) and thankfyully Judge Waksman and the house of lords have made it clear that if there are any variations on any agreements then the DCA or OC has to provide a copy the signed original agreement. Perhaps our guests can come on in and say oif they dont agree with Waksman or the house of Lords!!!!!! I will post more on this in the next post!!!!

 

So my team will be advising me accordingly over the coming weeks and then when 1st Cr have given disclosure we will be able to establish once and for all if they do actually have a legitimate claim and they will be able to look at every single word of all the documentation to see that it is actually fully complaint in all areas.

 

One of my legal team who has reviewed everything has made some very interesting comments about legal actions that he may instigate at an appropriate time on my behalf against this lot and guess what - it is all based on what they have actually done since the first letter that came. Not on what they have said but just on what they have done. I dont know cos I am no expert but if my brief tells me they have committed several offences I tend to believe him. and it is very interesting what the levels of potential compensation there could be if they were to be found guilty on all charges. it would make a nice ealry xmas pressie that for sure.

 

When I told the DJ that even in the NOA they were maiking threats of legal action he seemes surprised so I basically said "well its right there sir on the first page have a look please". He didnt seem very impressed that on a NOA letter a company would make a threat of legal action when the person they were writing to had absolutely no idea the default had been registered or that the acct had been sold.

 

 

So really it was all a bit of an early xmas panto really!!! the ugly sister was there and cinderella too and I will let you work out who was who.

 

So - watch this space as I am sure there is a lot more to come - very soon

Edited December 1, 2011 by newman

[newman]

welll good evening to all of our guests - why dont you come on in create an account and introduce yourselves. We would all make you very welcome:) no doubt you are enjoying this thread - I know I am

[DonkeyB]

majic’s enjoying it. Must be, to watch the thread for ten hours a day.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

:spy::behindsofa:Ahhh secret squirrell is up and playing with his nuts again (I mean Acorns of course)

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Wonder if he/she/it is on minimum wage:madgrin:

[newman]

Donkey, just thought you might be interested in this information

 

In their letter dated 02-08-2011 , LCS Solicitors referred to Carey Vs HSBC Plc 2010 and paragraph 119 in point 7 when referring to Para 4 of my CPR31:14 request dated 29-07-2011in relation to the necessity of having a signed original executed agreement containing all the prescribed terms for the agreement to be enforced in court.

Carey Vs HSBC Plc Para 119:

 

Do you know what Donkey I am very unclear why 1st Cr even mentioned this case as it clearly refers to compliance with section 78 CCA requests, NOT to enforcement by the courts following default. This case has NOTHING to do with a claim brought by a lender who has to prove that a document containing the prescribed terms was signed by both parties and as such i have been advised it is totally irrelevant to this case as in that specific case the creditor (HSBC) were the Defendant not the Claimant.

 

Again Donkey I have been advised that if a credit agreement was entered into before 6 April 2007, a court therefore has no discretion in the matter and the court cannot enforce the claim and what is very interesting is what LORD NICHOLLS OF BIRKENHEAD said in the House of Lords case Wilson v First County Trust Ltd when he stated "Thus, signature of a document containing all the prescribed terms is an essential prerequisite to the court's power to make an enforcement order. “

 

And Judge Waksmans ruling also gave the order that for a creditor to enforce an agreement, the original signed executed agreement had to be available in court as stated “If an agreement has been varied, lenders must provide a copy of the original agreement and variation and the terms in place at the date of the request”.

 

Well as it appears to me that as the two piles of photocopied cr##~y nonsense (oh sorry, reconstituted agreements) that 1st cr have submitted as the agreements that I apparently had with the OC, which they have now categorically now stated they are going to try to use using in court are so vastly different in all ways that it is possibly feasable that one possibly could be a variation of the other and if that actually the case then I am really looking forward to seeing which one of these was any agreement that I may have had with the OC!!

 

So thank you Judge Waksman for your ruling that the lovely people in the majestic county of Surrey will have to submit a copy of the original agreement and variation and the terms in place at the date of the request that existed between me and the original creditor. Of course I am not a legal expert at all and I would welcome clarification of this from any of our guests

 

Oh sorry almost forgot that Waksman judgement also clarified that if a creditor fails to supply a copy of a credit agreement within 12 days, when one is requested under the Act, then the creditor is in breach of the Act and that if a copy is still not provided within 28 days after that 12-day period has elapsed, then the borrower can make an application to have the loan or credit card declared as legally unenforceable.

 

Mmmmmm I wonder if a 33 month period from original request fits within that timescale - do you know what I think it does! Well as I havent applied to have this declared unenforceable then this is on the "to do" list for tomorrow.

 

Well I think that is all for now.

 

Perhaps Mr T- watts or Majic or DW 2009 or anyone else from 1st Cr can come on here and let us all know if he thinks that somehow 1st Cr can overrule these judgements.

 

What do you think guys. Have I read Waksmans ruling incorrectly?

Edited December 1, 2011 by newman

[DonkeyB]

It's a bit more, er, complex than that... IMO.

[newman]

Ah OK no worries - as I stated to the DJ I am but a lowly inexperienced LIP and I think he got it and maybe allowed me some leeway.

 

My wife has just made a startling observation - the judge stated that he hadnt had a chance to read any of my WS before we walked through the door and this is probably because the jusdge let Mr Toby Smith have his copies as Mr TS hadnt seen anything at all although he had been told the papers had arrived at 1st C'c office that morning.

 

Well Donkey my legal team have told me they are going to slash the 27 pages dramatically!!!!! - here comes Elsa with the secateurs slash slash!!!!!!!

 

That hurts as there are 100 hours of my life poured into that document. Well to be exact 95 hours up to Monday afternoon when I delivered the WS and Exhibits to the court.

 

I cant remember the last time I did a 95 hour week - 95 hours on my timesheet statement is an interesting amoiunt of costs if you take the hourly rate that Mr Smith was awarded - my usual consultancy rate is around the figur he got paid depending what projects we are working on.

[DonkeyB]

Sounds like Mr Toby Jugg-Ears had the judge wrapped round his pinkie.

 

Sadly, any costs award to you will be at the rate of £18 an hour only as an LiP, so don’t book your holiday yet.

[citizenB]

I think this was an experience you can learn from, Newman so all was not lost. You have been given the opportunity to tidy up and thin out your paperwork and strengthen your submissions. If you make sure you get some decent shut eye (although there were mitigating circumstances for the last hearing) then you will be able to stay on top of things.

[newman]

Sounds like Mr Toby Jugg-Ears had the judge wrapped round his pinkie.

 

Sadly, any costs award to you will be at the rate of £18 an hour only as an LiP, so don’t book your holiday yet.

 

Cheers Donkey - wow £18 an hour blimey thats disgusting when Mr TS was awarded £500 just for turning up!! Well you can guarantee I am going to to submit my timesheet for all the time I have logged since we started to wrrite to 1st Cr as well as a statement of costs and it wont be at £18 an hour it will be for my normal consultancy rate an the court can decide if what I have submitted is excessive or not. - As I stated in an earlier post I am currently in excess of 650 hours that I have spent since this all started - what a waste of my life eh!!!! well not wasted because there is yet to be a winner in this case.

[newman]

Sounds like Mr Toby Jugg-Ears had the judge wrapped round his pinkie.

 

Sadly, any costs award to you will be at the rate of £18 an hour only as an LiP, so don’t book your holiday yet.

 

Cheers Donkey - wow £18 an hour blimey thats disgusting when Mr TS was awarded £500 just for turning up!! Well you can guarantee I am going to to submit my timesheet for all the time I have logged since we started to wrrite to 1st Cr as well as a statement of costs and it wont be at £18 an hour it will be for my normal consultancy rate an the court can decide if what I have submitted is excessive or not. - As I stated in an earlier post I am currently in excess of 650 hours that I have spent since this all started - what a waste of my life eh!!!! well not wasted because there is yet to be a winner in this case.

[DonkeyB]

You won’t get 650 hours. You will only get £18 an hour. Concentrate on the law!

[newman]

I think this was an experience you can learn from, Newman so all was not lost. You have been given the opportunity to tidy up and thin out your paperwork and strengthen your submissions. If you make sure you get some decent shut eye (although there were mitigating circumstances for the last hearing) then you will be able to stay on top of things.

 

Hi Citizen B - well thats a very true statement thats for sure I have learned a lot. And I think the opportunity to tidy up and thin out is also good - oooohhhh I can just see Elsa with a wicked grin as she sharpens her secateurs even more in readiness for the mass slahing that is about to take place

 

Decent shut eye is definately on the cards -

 

On this point it was great to speak to you earlier Brig and thaks for the tip about sleeping. Yoiu see its not just great consumer advice we get on here - sleeping consultancy too!! amazing.

 

Oh I just saw 3 guests there and now two have gone - they are in a shift system - blimey I hope they are being paid overtime -

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi Citizen B - well thats a very true statement thats for sure I have learned a lot. And I think the opportunity to tidy up and thin out is also good - oooohhhh I can just see Elsa with a wicked grin as she sharpens her secateurs even more in readiness for the mass slahing that is about to take place

 

Decent shut eye is definately on the cards -

 

On this point it was great to speak to you earlier Brig and thaks for the tip about sleeping. Yoiu see its not just great consumer advice we get on here - sleeping consultancy too!! amazing.

 

Oh I just saw 3 guests there and now two have gone - they are in a shift system - blimey I hope they are being paid overtime -

 

Before any one asks I am qulified to give the sleeping advice:wink: