Wheelclamping on private property

[sniglet]

Thank you so much for the replies.

 

 

My scrap bloke says he can easily remove the clamp / wheel without damaging it before taking the car. As I have asked redroute now 3 times to remove the clamp and given them several days to do this, is this action justified? Or am I better off letting them take the car and giving them ownership as whisperwolf suggested (i like that idea) or letting them take the car and subsequently proving this is theft?

 

The other option is simply to pay them the £165 release fee and be done with it. This is obviously what they want me to do as they know their case wouldn't stand up in court. But surely this is a unique situation as I do not want the car back anyway.

 

A solicitor I called said i should involve the managing agents of the block. However, I am reluctant to do this as I know they have had complaints about my car being there for several weeks from other residents and would not be sympathetic to me. Despite the fact that my car has been there for several weeks, Redroute have only had their signs up since around 25th june and the garage made their 1st attempt to pick up the car on 28th june. I left notes in the car explaining this. If they can prove that my car was a nuisance to other residents (it is not blocking anything just taking up a space and i am a resident myself) surely this can't negate the fact that their signs don't mention a time limit on the parking bays? The solicitor also said that if the managing agents have rules written down somewhere (I've not seen any - certainly not in the lease) about the time limit then this can hold irrespective of the signs errected by redroute.

 

I will understand if you nice people are fed up with my stupid case!!!

[Guest Gertie100]

Why would your neighbours complain about your car being parked in a space which you are entitled to?

[demon_x_slash]

Some neighbourhoods are sniffy - my OH was involved in an accident and had parked our written-off car in our specific allocated space while the insurance company dawdled with getting a valuation. We firstly received a letter saying that the car 'had been abandoned' and they were going to tow it; when we phoned to reassure that it was our car and was awaiting evaluation the management company told us that it was detrimental to the character of the area - "made the place look untidy" was what the woman on the phone said - and they were going to tow it anyway if it wasn't gone within three days. I was hopping mad and wanted to take it further, but OH didn't want the hassle, so we had to get permission from the ins. to get it scrapped ASAP (which led to a whole lot of other problems, but we won't go there )

[Guest Gertie100]

If only that were all we had to worry us - a clamped car outside our flats!!!

[demon_x_slash]

If only that were all we had to worry us - a clamped car outside our flats!!!

 

Sorry, I don't quite understand your comment

[Guest Gertie100]

In a nice neighbourhood where people talked to each other and had some slight inkling about what was happening in each others lives, an explanation of why there is a damaged car, or clamped car parked quite legally in a private, reserved space which is allocated to the car's owner and everyone knew that in a certain space of time it would moved then why worry about it?

 

No, its far more important to worry about how everything affects you, and you only - will the price of your house go down etc...just saying really that its a shame that we can't bear with people sometimes when they are having problems without thinking about the material things...

 

Just being a bit mardy today

[demon_x_slash]

Yes, I was quite annoyed with the situation - although, the managing company didn't say that neighbours had complained, just that they disapproved of it being there and were going to remove it. It wasn't even a complete wreck with bits falling off, you understand - the front left hand was buckled and dented (the accident had ruined the front of the car) but it didn't look awful - it was just obvious that it had been involved in a collision. I think in our case it was an overzealous management company. I can understand someone complaining if it was untaxed, or had been there for months, or looked as though it was about to spontaneously combust etc. but for the level of damage it had, calling it an eyesore was frankly ridiculous.

 

I'm fairly sure that they would not have been legally allowed to clamp and tow - but that's tied in with what the OP's asking; unfortunately, while I'm sure they legally can't, I don't know the relevant legislation that would make it illegal.

[sniglet]

Update:

 

Thanks for all your comments.

 

After my appeal to the managing agents of the block, Redroute removed the clamp and I scrapped the car at 9am the next morning.

 

However, after having got involved, the managing agents are now saying they don't get involved in disputes between residents and the clamping company. They are now washing their hands of it.

 

Meanwhile Redroute have errected a sign saying '2 hour max stay period'. Unfortunately I can't prove with photos that this sign was errected at a later date to the others. My stupid fault. There are about 6 signs which don't say this and one now which does.

 

Redroute have issued me with a 'Creditors Notice' saying that unless I pay them £165 within 7 days a county court claim may be issued against me. They also say that if a claim is made a court fee and interest will be added to the debt. Bit scared about this and my credit rating being effected etc.

 

What is the likelihood of them issuing a county court claim over this,

what's likely to happen if I ignore them from now on?

 

If they do issue, can I get out of going to court at that stage by paying just the £165 ? ie what is the latest point in the proceedings at which paying the £165 puts an end to it?

 

Looking at the thread called 'wheel clamped - unfairly extortionate fine?' started by Andy9012 a couple of months ago makes me think that £165 is pretty high anyway. Should I quote them the Unfair Terms in Consumer Regulations 1999 act? What can I write to them to make them believe I am fully prepared to take them on in court and confident I would win. Should I offer to pay them say £40 and argue that this is a reasonable compromise?

 

I'm not trying to claim money back here, I haven't paid them a penny and they took off the clamp. Are they admitting the clamping was unreasonable by doing that?

 

Any thoughts?

[buzby]

We're still in this fantasy world of 'Contract Law' where it is assumed that by parking there, the car owner has somehow consented to participating in the contract simply by having a vehicle parked. Whilst they can take you to court (in exactly the same way as anyone could take you to court), you can still have the right to appear and put your side, telling the judge no contract existed, and the variable signage used by the company. I would think you can call their bluff and they would have more to lose than you would. As for the managing agents having nothing to do with the company, even better - as you can take that to mean Redroute are acting without authority of the property agents, and are extorting money without any lawful permission.

[sniglet]

Was I entering into a contract if my car was already in the space (broken down) when their signs went up and they started patroling the area. I didn't actually park there whilst they were in operation.

 

Also, I am the RK but my husband and friend pushed the car originally into the spot when it broke down so i didn't actually park there myself at all.

[sniglet]

Hello

 

If someone clever could read this letter and let me know if its ok. This is one about Redroute clamping me outside my own flat. They removed the clamp but I have not paid them anything. They are demanding the release fee. I have done loads of reading on the treads relating to private parking companies and have cobbled together this letter. The history of the case is all on this thread.

 

Also, where do I look to find their company name, number, registered office address, name of managing director etc. Tried companies house but Redroute must be a trading name. Perhaps they are not necessarily a limited company?

 

I guess its probably too wordy and needs to be more concise.

 

Here goes:

 

Dear xxxxxxx

Your ref: xxxxxxx

TAKE FORMAL NOTICE

I would like to make clear the following:

1 No contract exists between myself, the registered keeper of the vehicle, and the land owner/their agent for the following reasons:

· The car was already in situ (broken down) when the clamping operation began so no one parked the car there having read clear signs stating a maximum stay period.

· I, the registered keeper, was taking reasonable, demonstrable action to remove the car when it was clamped by you.

· According to the managing agents two letters were sent to all residents warning of the clamping operation. I did not receive these letters. They do not constitute a contract.

· I, the registered keeper, did not park the car in the space originally, it was pushed there by others.

2 Common law holds that the remedy for breach of contract is damages. Therefore even if a contract does exist, which it doesn’t, and was broken, the land owner would be entitled only to damages (penalties are not allowed in civil contract law). There is no charge for parking in the space so there is no lost revenue associated with my car being parked there. As you employ staff to patrol the area for all eventualities, it would be ridiculous to argue that damages are incurred by your employee being hired for the express purpose of issuing an invoice and fitting a clamp. For damages to be justifiable and enforceable by the courts they must be a reflection of actual loss. Within the context of a contract between a consumer and the landowner/agent your ‘fee’ of £165 (which is made up, according to your invoice, of a release fee of £85 plus an administration costs surcharge of £80) is grossly disproportionate. I refer you to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999)

Furthermore, your unsolicited and unwanted communication has been addressed to my person with an attempt to extract monies from me using what purports to be official documentation when you have no lawful basis to do so. Your correspondence has caused to my person and family much anguish, anxiety, fear and personal distress and as such I insist that you do not continue to pursue this course of conduct which is nothing less than harassment.

 

Should you at any time in the future send me any further correspondence or come calling upon my home regarding this matter, you accept that by so doing, your company, its representatives and agents will once again cause me and my family to suffer such anguish, anxiety, fear and personal distress. In such circumstances I will immediately pursue a complaint of harassment against your company under the Protection from Harassment Act.

 

Be aware, the Police will be notified about this matter should your behaviour not stop.

In closing, I refute entirely that I owe you any money whatsoever. Please do not contact me again unless it is to advise me that you will not be contacting me again, as the registered keeper, and that the matter is now closed.

Please note, I have written to Trading Standards and the local press.

Yours faithfully

[buzby]

I'll read it in full on Monday - but the heading would be either TAKE NOTICE or FORMAL NOTICE, not what you have. As for your earlier post, if your vehicle was in the space prior to the signage erection, then it would be difficult for them to assert you had consented to the contract. However, could you prove with witnesses that your vehicle WAS there before the signs arrived and hadn't moved?

[sniglet]

Thanks Buzby

 

There are plenty of witnesses to confirm that the car had been there for quite a few weeks. I had help attempting to jump start, push, tow etc in the week or so before their signs went up. The back brakes had locked on and it was immobile. That's why my only way to move it was to get the garage to lift it - when they attempted they couldn't get their vehicle up the drive.

 

I await your advice with eager anticipation!

[buzby]

OK - IMHO, replace the first with the latter;

(1) broken down / mechanically immobile

(2) What the managing agents did as a third party is of no real interest. You were not provided with ANY formal prior notice of any change in land use at the locus.

(3) No need to volunteer you were/are the RK. Say you were the owner, but only if you were. An RK is only recognised by the DVLA.

(4) Be aware/ Take notice

(5) not stop/cease forthwith

(6) refute/reject

(7) Remove last para - the first cannot do anything, and the latter seems a desperate appeal/threat. The letter is strong, you don't need this!

 

Good luck!

[sniglet]

Thanks a lot.

 

Letter sent yesterday.

 

will update.

[queenjayne]

This topic was closed on 03/07/19.

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