South West Trains Caution / MG11?

[mh0607]

Hi,

 

Just seeking some advice!

 

I received a letter from South West Trains Prosecution Department last week regarding an incident relating to fare evasion. In it, it stated that they would be examining all evidence in order to decide whether to take legal proceedings, and that I had 14 days to respond in writing with my explanation of events.

 

A few weeks ago, I boarded a train at Chessington North station and intended to get off at Wimbledon station. I was late arriving at the station and did not have time to check that my travelcard was in my wallet. I only realised that I had lost my travelcard once I had joined the train. When I realised, before it was requested, that I had lost my travelcard, I tried to get off the train to purchase another ticket from the ticket office, but the doors had already shut. I then decided to approach the on-train staff at the earliest opportunity to explain the situation and offer to buy a new ticket. I was also thinking about exiting the train at the next stop, Tolworth, to try to purchase a ticket to Wimbledon from there, in case I was not able to find a member of staff.

 

The member of staff I found and approached, was a Penalty Fare Collector but I felt that she was incredibly rude and intimidating towards me. I took full responsibility for my mistake and offered to pay the Penalty fare plus the full single fare. But she overlooked everything I said and backed me into a corner. I was polite towards her and apologised profusely, but she raised her voice and aggressively announced to the packed carriage that I had commited an offence. Being a shy person by nature, I was made to feel very scared, nervous and visibly upset. I felt that she did not take an accurate statement and I was under duress to sign her notepad. I believe that I signed it without even reading what I was signing. Something I deeply regret as I was quite shaken, naive & nervous at this point.

 

At every opportunity I tried to pay and completely understood at this instance that I was wrong, but everything I did to put the situation right was disregarded.

 

At no point was I trying to avoid paying the proper fare. There are ticket guards and gates at Wimbledon station, so if I had intentionally boarded the train without a ticket I would have never been able to get out of the station and would have been caught / questioned at the other end.

 

I work in Central London and I am a loyal train & tube user. I usually stay with my sister in the week and get the tube from Morden to Goodge Street each day, for which I always buy a Zone 1-4 ticket. That particular week, I had to be in Wimbledon so I stayed at my family home (nearest station Chessington North) and purchased a 7 day Zone 3-6 travelcard for the week in cash. Alas, this was the ticket that I could not find on the morning that I was cautioned by the Penalty Fare Collector.

 

I apologised profusely for this genuine mistake in my letter and assured them that in future, I would leave enough time to check that I have the correct ticket on me before boarding a train. If I then realised that I had lost my ticket, I would do everything I could to purchase another one to cover my journey before joining the train.

 

At the end of my letter, I stated that having researched my position, I realised that I may be able to pay an administrative penality fine and that if this course of action could be taken so that we may both avoid the long winded process of court action and settle the matter quickly out of court, I would be most grateful.

 

I then thanked the Prosecutions Manager for taking the time to read my letter and that I looked forward to hearing from him in due course.

 

I have not received a Court Summons but I know the process can take up to 6 months, so I just wanted to seek some advice on the following issues:

• Is it my word against hers? I have a feeling that the Penalty Fare Collector's report will be different to my version of events. I felt that she treated me unfairly and didn't listen to what I was saying. I was also nervous and scared and wanted to get the interview over with, so I naively signed her notepad without reading it first - which will definitely weaken my case.
  
• I have had to pay a Penalty Fine of £20 once before on a South West Train and I think I gave my them my details. (Unluckily, another stupid mistake where I got off the train a stop further than my ticket covered).
  
• I am a good and polite citizen. I'm a professional worker (26 years old - in PR) and have never had any Criminal Convictions / run ins with the law.
  
• I couldn't remember my full National Insurance Number, so I think a few of the digits might have been wrong, but I did give my correct Name and Address.
  
• I gave them my correct mobile number at the time, but I have since lost my mobile phone, so I have a different mobile number now.
  
• I obviously lost the 7 Day Zone 3-6 ticket and the receipt, so have no proof that I bought the ticket as I paid for it in cash.
  
• Do cases such as mine usually end up in a Court Summons?
  
• Do you think I stand a good chance of getting an Out of Court settlement? I don't want a Criminal Record, so I would pay any fine.
  
• If so, how would one go about asking for an Out of Court settlement?
  
• I tried to phone the South West Trains Prosecution Department but the number is always engaged. I called South West Trains Customer Services but they told me that that was the only number to call.
  
• How long does a Criminal Record for Fare Evasion last? Can it ever be spent?
  
• Should I seek advice from Legal Aid / Citizen's Advice Bureau?
  
• Should I have been more apologetic in my letter?
  

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks and best wishes,

M

[dx100uk]

you have done all you need to do. grovel.

you'll be ok

 

forget about it.

 

dx

[Stigy]

The Prosecutions office at SWT gets very busy, so that'll be why they're always engaged!

 

I wouldn't worry too much about this, as you seem like quite a genuine person. There'll inevitably be some sort of penalty, and will be far better if you offer to settle out of court!

[Stigy]

Hi,

 

• Is it my word against hers? I have a feeling that the Penalty Fare Collector's report will be different to my version of events. I felt that she treated me unfairly and didn't listen to what I was saying. I was also nervous and scared and wanted to get the interview over with, so I naively signed her notepad without reading it first - which will definitely weaken my case.
  
• I have had to pay a Penalty Fine of £20 once before on a South West Train and I think I gave my them my details. (Unluckily, another stupid mistake where I got off the train a stop further than my ticket covered).
  
• I am a good and polite citizen. I'm a professional worker (26 years old - in PR) and have never had any Criminal Convictions / run ins with the law.
  
• I couldn't remember my full National Insurance Number, so I think a few of the digits might have been wrong, but I did give my correct Name and Address.
  
• I gave them my correct mobile number at the time, but I have since lost my mobile phone, so I have a different mobile number now.
  
• I obviously lost the 7 Day Zone 3-6 ticket and the receipt, so have no proof that I bought the ticket as I paid for it in cash.
  
• Do cases such as mine usually end up in a Court Summons?
  
• Do you think I stand a good chance of getting an Out of Court settlement? I don't want a Criminal Record, so I would pay any fine.
  
• If so, how would one go about asking for an Out of Court settlement?
  
• I tried to phone the South West Trains Prosecution Department but the number is always engaged. I called South West Trains Customer Services but they told me that that was the only number to call.
  
• How long does a Criminal Record for Fare Evasion last? Can it ever be spent?
  
• Should I seek advice from Legal Aid / Citizen's Advice Bureau?
  
• Should I have been more apologetic in my letter?
  

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks and best wishes,

M

 

1. Unfortunately you signed the notebook without reading it, which basically means you agree that what you had written was a true and accurate account of events, so you'll have a hard job in court.
   
2. The previous Penalty Fare shouldn't matter too much, as long as you're not a persistant fare evader!
   
3. That'll obviously be a good thing.
   
4. NI numbers are merely used incase you did give incorrect details, so that you can be found. You were not obliged to supply it, so I wouldn't worry about it!
   
5. By all means update your mobile number with SWT, but most corespondence is done via the post anyway. As fare as them having your incorrect number on file that you supplied to the staff member, it's not a problem and wont go against you.
   
6. Unfortunately whether you can provide proof of purchase or not is irrelevant, as the offence is being able to produce on demand, a valid rail ticket for your full journey.
   
7. It has been known, but most people prefer to settle out of court.
   
8. Yes. If you only have the one previous penalty, and you are telling us everything, I don't see why not...Don't hold me to that one though!
   
9. Ask them over the phone or in writing, that you are deeply sorry and would like to settle out of court...
   
10. SWT Prosecutions are a very small department and can get very busy. Bear with them! And yes, that is the only number you can call.
    
11. If it was your intention to avoid payment, the offence would be that of a Regulation of Railways Act Offence - 5.3(a) which can lead to imprisonment if the Magistrates are in a bad mood! From what I gather there was no intended fraud on your part, and that will be reflected in the staff member's statement. (in other words it's a byelaw offence 18.1 to be precise). The typical conviction lasts for 5-years, after which time it is classed as spent, although you might like to clarify that one!
    
12. If you think it'll help, use CAB by all means
    
13. I realy don't think you could have been any more appologetic!
    

I don't like when staff get al upperty....Are you sure you're not mistaking her attitude with ascertiveness?

 

Goodluck!

[Old-CodJA]

As you will be aware I have replied to your PM

 

You may wish to speak to CAB, but bear in mind they will only offer advice and will not act for you if the matter goes to Court

 

You cannot get legal aid if you have been charged with the Byelaw offence.

 

Offer your unreserved apology for an uncharachteristic lapse of attention, offer to pay the fare and the administration costs that SWT have incurred in collecting it and undertake not to repeat the offence in future.

[yearly]

Hey mh0607 - how did this turn out?

Also would it be possible for me to have their prosecution department telephone number/email/address please? I'm in a similar situation and want to avoid court proceedings at all cost...

Cheers.

 

Hi,

 

Just seeking some advice!

 

I received a letter from South West Trains Prosecution Department last week regarding an incident relating to fare evasion. In it, it stated that they would be examining all evidence in order to decide whether to take legal proceedings, and that I had 14 days to respond in writing with my explanation of events.

 

A few weeks ago, I boarded a train at Chessington North station and intended to get off at Wimbledon station. I was late arriving at the station and did not have time to check that my travelcard was in my wallet. I only realised that I had lost my travelcard once I had joined the train. When I realised, before it was requested, that I had lost my travelcard, I tried to get off the train to purchase another ticket from the ticket office, but the doors had already shut. I then decided to approach the on-train staff at the earliest opportunity to explain the situation and offer to buy a new ticket. I was also thinking about exiting the train at the next stop, Tolworth, to try to purchase a ticket to Wimbledon from there, in case I was not able to find a member of staff.

 

The member of staff I found and approached, was a Penalty Fare Collector but I felt that she was incredibly rude and intimidating towards me. I took full responsibility for my mistake and offered to pay the Penalty fare plus the full single fare. But she overlooked everything I said and backed me into a corner. I was polite towards her and apologised profusely, but she raised her voice and aggressively announced to the packed carriage that I had commited an offence. Being a shy person by nature, I was made to feel very scared, nervous and visibly upset. I felt that she did not take an accurate statement and I was under duress to sign her notepad. I believe that I signed it without even reading what I was signing. Something I deeply regret as I was quite shaken, naive & nervous at this point.

 

At every opportunity I tried to pay and completely understood at this instance that I was wrong, but everything I did to put the situation right was disregarded.

 

At no point was I trying to avoid paying the proper fare. There are ticket guards and gates at Wimbledon station, so if I had intentionally boarded the train without a ticket I would have never been able to get out of the station and would have been caught / questioned at the other end.

 

I work in Central London and I am a loyal train & tube user. I usually stay with my sister in the week and get the tube from Morden to Goodge Street each day, for which I always buy a Zone 1-4 ticket. That particular week, I had to be in Wimbledon so I stayed at my family home (nearest station Chessington North) and purchased a 7 day Zone 3-6 travelcard for the week in cash. Alas, this was the ticket that I could not find on the morning that I was cautioned by the Penalty Fare Collector.

 

I apologised profusely for this genuine mistake in my letter and assured them that in future, I would leave enough time to check that I have the correct ticket on me before boarding a train. If I then realised that I had lost my ticket, I would do everything I could to purchase another one to cover my journey before joining the train.

 

At the end of my letter, I stated that having researched my position, I realised that I may be able to pay an administrative penality fine and that if this course of action could be taken so that we may both avoid the long winded process of court action and settle the matter quickly out of court, I would be most grateful.

 

I then thanked the Prosecutions Manager for taking the time to read my letter and that I looked forward to hearing from him in due course.

 

 

I have not received a Court Summons but I know the process can take up to 6 months, so I just wanted to seek some advice on the following issues:

• Is it my word against hers? I have a feeling that the Penalty Fare Collector's report will be different to my version of events. I felt that she treated me unfairly and didn't listen to what I was saying. I was also nervous and scared and wanted to get the interview over with, so I naively signed her notepad without reading it first - which will definitely weaken my case.
  
• I have had to pay a Penalty Fine of £20 once before on a South West Train and I think I gave my them my details. (Unluckily, another stupid mistake where I got off the train a stop further than my ticket covered).
  
• I am a good and polite citizen. I'm a professional worker (26 years old - in PR) and have never had any Criminal Convictions / run ins with the law.
  
• I couldn't remember my full National Insurance Number, so I think a few of the digits might have been wrong, but I did give my correct Name and Address.
  
• I gave them my correct mobile number at the time, but I have since lost my mobile phone, so I have a different mobile number now.
  
• I obviously lost the 7 Day Zone 3-6 ticket and the receipt, so have no proof that I bought the ticket as I paid for it in cash.
  
• Do cases such as mine usually end up in a Court Summons?
  
• Do you think I stand a good chance of getting an Out of Court settlement? I don't want a Criminal Record, so I would pay any fine.
  
• If so, how would one go about asking for an Out of Court settlement?
  
• I tried to phone the South West Trains Prosecution Department but the number is always engaged. I called South West Trains Customer Services but they told me that that was the only number to call.
  
• How long does a Criminal Record for Fare Evasion last? Can it ever be spent?
  
• Should I seek advice from Legal Aid / Citizen's Advice Bureau?
  
• Should I have been more apologetic in my letter?
  

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks and best wishes,

M

[Stigy]

Hey mh0607 - how did this turn out?

Also would it be possible for me to have their prosecution department telephone number/email/address please? I'm in a similar situation and want to avoid court proceedings at all cost...

Cheers.

Why, when I have just advised you of what you need to do, are you still asking for SWT's Prosecutions number? I'm very much the same as you in as much as I worry about anything and everything. Some say I'm displaying worrying signs of an Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, which, if I'm honest I tend to agree with! Just don't worry. I know it's easy for me to say, but try not to worry!

[yearly]

Ah, I didn't see your post on the other thread until 10 mins after I had already posted the post above at 14:22. Only when I saw your other post afterwards, I realised I should wait, so I replied accordingly at 14:32... Anyway, many thanks for the advice Stigy!

[Stigy]

Ah, I didn't see your post on the other thread until 10 mins after I had already posted the post above at 14:22. Only when I saw your other post afterwards, I realised I should wait, so I replied accordingly at 14:32... Anyway, many thanks for the advice Stigy!

Ok, I'll let you off...I didn't link the times up...

[RayyJai]

Hi i really understand where your coming from. . i'm going though the same problem

[SRPO]

Hi,

Just seeking some advice!

I dont feel able to offer any advice on this matter as it seems quite incredulous.