bos

[Hip_Hop]

Hi Apple,

 

As you state a V5 accompanied with a reciept of purchase is proof of ownership or if the car was a gift then transfer letter.

A V5 alone is not proof, I can confirm that now I have been lent a car because as you know mine was taken. I have to have the car registered in my name bedause I am driving itfor the near future. This is a requirement of the traffic act. In case of any driving problems, ie speeding, or any thing where the police may need to contact the driver of the car parking tickets.

My name and address details are reg with DVLA on this lent car but I am not the owner of it. The owner details are not on the doc anywhere, because he doesnt drive it I do.

Can you see what I am trying to say. There are lots of other examples of this type of situation.

 

I have argued this with DVLA just add an extra few lines on the doc stating the legal owner details. Its simple really rather that leaving such an opening for prob.

Its a situation that must arise alot.

Its bringing back into play posseion is nine tenth of the law. Which is so wrong

 

Proof of purchase from the seller or letter from the seller and V5 should be a requirement of these loan companies. Its the only way it can be proven.

 

Yes Apple I did go to the policeabout the logbook being stolen and they said its not a police matter, I have also gone to them saying my car was stolen by LBL again they said its not a police matter.

 

The first I was aware of the Loan on my car was while it was having a new engine fitted after paying £2000 to put on road some 6 months after the loan was taken out

 

 

Hi Nicky,

 

not challenging, just debating....Well maybe a small type of clarification question or two, but just to get an understanding, of where you truly want to go with this, O.K?

 

Here goes then.

 

As the revamped V5C has just occured and thousands and thousands have been printed. What do you think the chances are of having them recalled to change them again? 0...1%...2%??

 

To put the V5c debate in to current context, It is now coloured red, and makes it clear that a registration certificate is not proof of ownership stamped clearly on it.

 

So we don't need to debate is it or isn't it proof of ownership? O.K? And yes Apple that relates to you too

- The log book itself when it arrives is my confirmation that I am the legal owner of the vehicle - let any bugger try an' tell me otherwise...........

The DVLA agree with you Nicky and is the Bugger that is telling Apple too (LOL).

 

So there, that's it, you heard it here first....., well maybe second , Oh alright most of you knew anyway.... V5C is not proof of ownership, end of.... period

 

Right, now that we have got that out of the way, the additional information that you are asking to be included Nicky on the new, new, new V5C in the future...., may happen....But not today and not next week and definitely not because of a one/two/three.....One Hundred person crusade.So where does that leave this debate?

 

As nice as it would be to have ownership details included on a V5C immediately, to help your cause. Unless you have substantial support for this to happen Nicky, it isn't going to happen any time soon, so why raise it again now when you are looking for help, advice going forward, that will help you for your pending hearing?

 

If, on the other hand, you are looking to start a crusade to have it changed for some time in the future, irrespective of your current case, than hoorah again!I salute you in your endeavours and wish you well. And would be happy to add my signature to your cause if it brightens up your day and raises a smile, when you announce your petition.

 

Either way I look forward to hearing any progress on your side.

 

Hip_Hop

Edited October 30, 2010 by Hip_Hop

[ims]

Not to get into a progressive arguement crusade etc etc, but just to try clarify:

 

before lending LBL would need the following:

 

1) The person acting as the borrower would have had to prove who they were (driving licence, utility bill, bank statement)

 

2) Then they would have to prove vehicle ownership (v5, mot, insurance)

 

3) they then have to sign declaration of ownership that states they own the car with reg etc etc

 

4) the borrower would then need to prove possession (photo taken of borrower next to said car holding v5)

 

So given the above, my questions are:

 

1) If the log book was stolen, the fraudster would have had to know you, given that in your posts say they took a picture of the fraudster outside your house, yet you say the logbook was in a friends name ( surely unless your friend lives at the same address, the log book would have had friends address not yours), so that rules out the general public?

 

2) The fraudster would have then had to falsify id, driving licece, utility bill and bank statements, as lbl pay by either cheque or bank transfer, making the fraudster either use his own name, or an alias, either way if this is fraud im sure if you contact your solicitor/lbl and explain you are subject access requesting the details held as you believe fraud has been committed, they will disclose, or atleast check for themselves whos bank the money went to, therfore giving a lead?!

 

3) either way the fraudster has committed fraud, either to you or lbl, if he/she has done the above, then you are the primary victim as you have lost your vehicle and sustained bad debt, if not then lbl have been frauded, as they have lent money against a cars title that did not belong ( Please search case welcome finance v nine regions)

 

Not knowing the exact ins and outs on your case my feelings on what i have read are this

 

1) Title can only pass between the true owner and the buyer/borrower! therfore if you had no knowledge of the above case and you were the true owner of the vehicle at the time the bill of sale was conducted, and you can PROVE IT with either a sales reciept or bill of sale executed prior to loan date, and you can call the previous owner as a witness to testify your claim, then you have nothing to worry about, if you cant prove it then on the balance of probability the judge will probably have the same concerns as stated in the paragraphs above, and therefore will probably award in favour of LBL.

 

2) To help prove title i would produce:

a) Purchase reciept

b) Witness statement from previous owner/keeper

c) insurance documents from time of ownership to date

d) MOT certificates/service documents

e) Reciept of money transfer topay for car

If car was in gagrage awaiting repair, was this at the same time the fraudster took loan, if so get witness statement from garage owner to confirm you took car in, you authorised said work and you paid for said work.

All the above will help im sure

regards

[Nicky Bodmin]

morning Imms,

 

 

1.I have receipt from seller

2. I have the bank transfer of funds to sellers account.

3. I have hand over doc.

4.I have MOT s

 

5. Various insurance policys over the years.

6.DVLA doc where I was fined for no Tax one year.

7. I have a letter from the guy who name the car was in explaining he was reg keeper but I was the legal owner

8.I have recie[t for payment of new engine.

9. Proof of 2 provident loans to cover some of repair bill.

10. The invoice for the fitting of the engine and MOT work. This was when I found out about the loan. When it was having new engine fitted.

11. Letter from the garage stating that they had only had dealings with me over the repair work.

12. I have DVLA letter stating the expiry date of last tax disc. This show car was not taxed.

13.I have a copy of the stolen part of the logbook where the fraudulant signature of transfer to new keeper.

14. A copy of LBL application over phone this shows the borrower ID does not even have to have his ID to match the address on application form.

15. A letter from the Insurance company named on the LBL doc stating its not one of their company policy this is from the insu fraud department.

 

I can get whitness statements from people who have known the car and me if needed

Can you think of any thing else that might help.

 

I have asked for desclosure of LBL doc but nothing has come forward yet

[cctv engineer]

morning Imms,

 

 

1.I have receipt from seller

2. I have the bank transfer of funds to sellers account.

3. I have hand over doc.

4.I have MOT s

 

5. Various insurance policys over the years.

6.DVLA doc where I was fined for no Tax one year.

7. I have a letter from the guy who name the car was in explaining he was reg keeper but I was the legal owner

8.I have recie[t for payment of new engine.

9. Proof of 2 provident loans to cover some of repair bill.

10. The invoice for the fitting of the engine and MOT work. This was when I found out about the loan. When it was having new engine fitted.

11. Letter from the garage stating that they had only had dealings with me over the repair work.

12. I have DVLA letter stating the expiry date of last tax disc. This show car was not taxed.

13.I have a copy of the stolen part of the logbook where the fraudulant signature of transfer to new keeper.

14. A copy of LBL application over phone this shows the borrower ID does not even have to have his ID to match the address on application form.

15. A letter from the Insurance company named on the LBL doc stating its not one of their company policy this is from the insu fraud department.

 

I can get whitness statements from people who have known the car and me if needed

Can you think of any thing else that might help.

 

I have asked for desclosure of LBL doc but nothing has come forward yet

 

 

Hi nicky. you have been off for a long time. the photo of the car outside your home is a problem for lbl. it just cant happen. you need to see the real photo it should give were the lone location was taken ................ plus you need to know were the loan was signed. if everything was done outside or inside your home then both bill of sale and CA is void.

[Nicky Bodmin]

it was taken outside my house

[Nicky Bodmin]

why is it void. It void any way its my car and not the person who took out the loan

[Hip_Hop]

Hi nicky. you have been off for a long time. the photo of the car outside your home is a problem for lbl. it just cant happen. you need to see the real photo it should give were the lone location was taken ................ plus you need to know were the loan was signed. if everything was done outside or inside your home then both bill of sale and CA is void.

 

That's an interesting theory CCTV and one that is obviously based on your greater inside knowledge, and why you were able to conclude that it "is a problem for lbl"?

 

Are you are suggesting in part that you believe that any photo taken of the loan applicant with the vehicle, not at a licenced place where loan documentation can be signed, must automatically mean that the loan documentation was signed off of a licenced premises...Surely not? What would be the flawed logic to make that assumption?

 

Using that logic, what would be the outcome if a cash convertor store was across the road from your home and you signed the documentation in those premises with a valid credit licence and then went over the road and had a photo of the vehicle taken with you as the borrower. Are you seriously suggesting that the BOS and CCA would be void? Hmmm, Interesting flawed logic.

 

Why should it matter where the photograph is taken as long as the docs are signed and completed on a licenced credited premises? Surely the logic behind them having the car photographed with the borrower is only to cover the Lender, so if the bonafide borrower denies at a future date, having taken out the loan application in the first place, the photograph is additional proof and will show that the laws of legal probabilities are very strong that the borrower was the original loan applicant not an imposter! The photo has no other bearing on the process as no photo would have equally no bearing on the process.

 

In any event it is neither here nor there as Nicky's claim is that fraud was perpetrated in the loan application, anyway.

and she clearly states that neither she nor her friend knew this fraudster, so inside, outside the home is a non point of detail.

 

As to finding out where the loan application was signed. Are you seriously asking Nicky and others to clutch at straws just for the sake of seeing the grins on our enemy's (LBL) faces? Nowhere on the CCA nor the Bill of Sale paperwork is there any indication where the paperwork was signed???.

 

Let me make a wild stab here CCTV you think Nicky should ask the fraudster where he signed? No? O.K

 

What about Nine Regions/LBL, maybe they will reveal if the paperwotk was signed not on a licenced credited premises, but elsewhere, making their agreement and BOS void?

Do you think Nicky should ask them??? No? O.K

 

Such difficult questions CCTV, glad you are the expert not me, I couldn't possibly make such bold statements to other Caggers, like you do on why "It can't just happen" and not even make an attempt to explain why that is. I am glad the OFT have you as a witness as your attention to detail will no doubt be of immense help.

 

As always, just expressing a view point, my penny's worth so to speak, that other caggers may find helpful in the circumstances,

Edited October 31, 2010 by Hip_Hop

[cctv engineer]

That's an interesting theory CCTV and one that is obviously based on your greater inside knowledge, and why you were able to conclude that it "is a problem for lbl"?

 

Are you are suggesting in part that you believe that any photo taken of the loan applicant with the vehicle, not at a licenced place where loan documentation can be signed, must automatically mean that the loan documentation was signed off of a licenced premises...Surely not? What would be the logic to make that assumption?

 

As using that logic, what would be the outcome if a cash convertor store was across the road from your home and you signed the documentation in those premises with a valid credit licence and then went over the road and had a photo of the vehicle taken with you as the borrower. Are you seriously suggesting that the BOS and CCA would be void? Hmmm, Interesting flawed logic.

 

Why should it matter where the photograph is taken as long as the docs are signed and completed on a licenced credited premises? Surely the logic behind them having the car photographed with the borrower is only to cover the Lender, so if the borrower denies at a future date, having taken out the loan application in the first place, the photograph is additional proof and will show that the laws of legal probabilities are very strong that the borrower was the original loan applicant not an imposter! The photo has no other bearing on the process as no photo would have equally no bearing on the process.

 

In any event it is neither here nor there as Nicky's claim is that fraud was perpetrated in the loan application, any way.

and she clearly states that neither she nor her friend knew this fraudster so inside, outside the home is a non point of detail.

 

As to finding out where the loan application was signed. Are you seriously asking Nicky and others to clutch at straws just for the sake of seeing the grins on the enemy's (LBL) faces? Nowhere on the CCA nor the Bill of Sale paperwork is there any indication where the paperwork was signed???.

 

Let me make a wild stab here CCTV you think Nicky should ask the fraudster where he signed? No? O.K

 

What about Nine Regions/LBL, maybe they will reveal if the paperwotk was signed not on a licenced credited premises, making their agreement and BOS void but elsewhere? Do you think Nicky should ask them??? No? O.K

 

Such difficult questions CCTV, glad you are the expert not me, I couldn't possibly make such bold statements to other Caggers, like you do on why "It can't just happen" and not even make an attempt to explain why that is. I am glad the OFT have you as a witness as your attention to detail will no doubt be of immense help.

 

As always, just expressing a view point, my penny's worth so to speak, that other caggers may find helpful in the circumstances,

 

 

again hip hop you are having a go at us again so i will tell you what we are going to do this is are last post because we put a lot of time and our own money into helping others on here and all as you want to do is fight with us on posts that do not have anything to do with you. august we won a case in court.

 

if logbook loans do loans at a home or on the street then they are void ............... logbook loans DO NOT have a licence to trade out of a licenced office so they CAN not trade outside of cashconverters/mobile money . it is called a cold call licence to which they do not have.

 

so go on hip-hop call use anything you like

[Hip_Hop]

 

if logbook loans do loans at a home or on the street then they are void ............... logbook loans DO NOT have a licence to trade out of a licenced office so they CAN not trade outside of cashconverters/mobile money . it is called a cold call licence to which they do not have.

 

 

Well why didn't you say so in the first place Tom, instead of posting confusing befuddled posts about photographs?

 

See that wasn't hard was it? A simple confusing qualifying paragraph from you about not being able to trade outside of a licenced premises and everyone is happy, even though no one had posted or indicated that any documents regarding this fraudster had been signed outside of a licenced place.

 

Yes I can definitely see why you thought it might be helpful to Nicky and others to post your original confusing post......?

 

 

 

again hip hop you are having a go at us again so i will tell you what we are going to do this is are last post because we put a lot of time and our own money into helping others on here and all as you want to do is fight with us on posts that do not have anything to do with you. august we won a case in court.

 

I must correct you on this fighting point Tom, you 've got me all wrong and it hurts, ever so.

 

I dont want to fight with you, just correct you and ask for clarity when you post befuddled, confusing posts such as your earlier offering.

See, I like you. I am fond of any Cagger that feels that it is right and proper to tell another Cagger on a public Forum that it is wrong to get involved and participate in any thread that they are on.

I would never have the front to request that of you, so I will take it that you don't really mean it, and that you are really just joshing with me and my fellow Caggers.

 

Just as I appreciate, when you refer to yourself as part of a group? Having invested money and refer to knowing a Bill of Sales Solicitor with over 27 years experience and regularly refer to winning cases and to obtaining judgments in favour of other Caggers, you are again only joshing with me and my fellow Caggers!

Oh Tom, you are so cruel.

 

If I didn't know you were joshing , I would seriously think that you were a one man band making wild claims that you could never back up when challenged, but hey, that's probably just me having a little josh with you now T.M. Isn't it?

 

You see, being a public forum it would be outside my remit to tell you that you mustn't post comments on threads that have nothing to do with you, because that would be silly, wouldn't it Tom, after all, it's a PUBLIC FORUM, open to all?

 

I also think this Public Forum is a richer place for having you on board.

 

So carry on with your exploits of the non existing Solicitor called Jeff, post comments about the mysterious cases that you have won in August but give no details on, and please continue to tickle my rib cage on having possession and judgments at hand with extraordinary claims to be able to void Bills of sales with a swish of your wand.

 

But most of all, keep those confusing posts coming. Nothing like a good read to keep my invisible rabbit Harvey happy on these cold dark Autumn nights!

 

so go on hip-hop call use anything you like

 

No need to call you anything Tom, oops I mean CCTV Engineer.

Edited October 31, 2010 by Hip_Hop

[Nicky Bodmin]

Good morning Hip Hop,

I have the same thoughts of our dear Tom.

He first exploded onto the forum end of the summer with this big secret of how we can win our case.

I spoke to him on his mob several times.

Lets face it anyone stating they had judgment over the BAD BOYS we are going to be all ears.

Armed with the alleged facts from lengthily conversations with Tom, I did my usual and cross referenced back to find supporting evidence.

I looked and looked but to this day have not found anything.

The OFT won’t comment on work in process for their appeal unless you have something that will help their case.

I have asked on open forum for the contact details of the police unit that he states will look into LBL criminal activities.

Silence until last night.

I’m behind you on this one Hip Hop, when I spoke to him months ago it was just him but now he is a we or us. I smell a rat. But think we all have with him.

Maybe that is LBL new business venture CCTV god help us.

Tom yes this is a direct attack and before you spends any more money in putting together a reply to this message.

Start talking in our language then maybe the attacks will become questions of asking for advice.

I hope the pay you receive for your hollow posts have been worth it if not I hear the WI are looking for new recruits for their knitting circle cause you really need to get a life.

[Nicky Bodmin]

Hi Guys,

 

My mind has been ticking over time again. Something that has been mentioned a few times.

 

Does anyone know if their is any ref to address details.

The reason I ask and this is un supported at min.

 

Just say that the V5 is reg to the borrower at one address were the loans was taken out and signed at IE Address A.

 

The credit aggreement and bill of sale is in borrower name and address B.

 

Do you see what Im saying.

 

V5 reg to one address

 

The BOS C A to the borrowers home address.

 

Surley this cant be legal

 

ADVISE PLEASE SITE TEAM

[Hip_Hop]

Hi Guys,

 

My mind has been ticking over time again. Something that has been mentioned a few times.

 

Does anyone know if their is any ref to address details.

The reason I ask and this is un supported at min.

 

Just say that the V5 is reg to the borrower at one address were the loans was taken out and signed at IE Address A.

 

The credit aggreement and bill of sale is in borrower name and address B.

 

Do you see what Im saying.

 

V5 reg to one address

 

The BOS C A to the borrowers home address.

 

Surley this cant be legal

 

ADVISE PLEASE SITE TEAM

 

Hi Nicky,

 

Don't think it needs a site team response? It would never happen.

 

In the example of your fraudster's address details it obviously matched both the fraudently addressed V5C and Insurance he no doubt presented to get LBL to advance the loan?

.

Nicky you are no doubt right that there will always be situations where occasionally, addresses may not match, like when one moves house and temporarily has previous addresses on the pertinent docs you refer too, but I doubt a Lender would offer a loan with non matching address details because it would be such a simple process to ask the borrower to get the docs updated and reapply in a few days.

 

 

But I understand why you are asking.

[Nicky Bodmin]

Hi Hip Hop,

 

I will PM you now think you will be interested in my reply

[Nicky Bodmin]

all done think you will find it interesting

[ims]

Hi Nicky,

 

As with my loan application, my driving licence was in my old address, after speaking with the lender they said they would only use this one peice of evidence as photo id and not address id.

 

the bill of sale/credit agreement will show the address the borrower gave to the lender, its the 3rd line down on my agreement, if they have supplied you a copy.

regards

[applecart]

Hi All...

 

Nicky, yours is such a remote situation; my mind boggles as to how or why anyone would go to the extreme of taking a loan out against someone else's car in the way that it appears to have happened to you:???:

 

We hear tale of those that have been 'sold' cars that have lbl's on them all over the forum - but your case - well - I confess; i'm totally perplexed

 

What you are essentially saying is that any one of us could fall victim to some lout who is so desparate for money that he will jump through as many hoops as your fraudster has; in order to secure a loan - my oh my; what is the world coming to????

 

I agree though - you need to get to the bottom of this and stand up for your rights - how very dare a person have the cheek to do what they did to you and to add insult to injury - have his photo taken outside YOUR house with YOUR car - there is definately a [problem] afoot here......

 

It would seem that both lbl and yourself are victims in this one.

 

They are out of pocket for the money they loaned to the fraudster and you are without your car.

 

It would seem that you both want to be put back in the position you were in before this whole mess came to light.....

 

So, lets turn your case 'upside down' - (so's to speak......)

Instead of trying to find lots and lots of evidence - simply state your case and let LBL squirm - afterall - your case is one that shows that yet again lbl and their Agents haven't got a clue what they are doing - who they are lending to - and due to their lack of diligence - they are causing harm and distress to innocent consumers countrywide and they need to get their 'house in order'

 

The Flipside is This........you can simply stand in front of the Judge and assert that you did not take out the loan - you are not the person in the photo - you have your documents to show that you have at all times owned the car - and you know of no time at all when or how lbl could have effected a loan on your vehicle.

 

It will be left to lbl to stand in court scratching their heads as to how they can cause the photo to 'look like you' - cause the signatures to be yours or any of their paperwork to be attributed to you.

 

Essentially all you have to claim/defend would be that 'it wasn't me' - it will be up to them to try to prove otherwise!!

 

Regardless of what you have written in your POC - It will be what you actually say and assert in front of the Judge (i.e: what your poc meant to say... if you get my drift?) that will make all the difference when you are in front of the Judge on the day....

 

Go get um : )

 

Apple

[Nicky Bodmin]

Morning Apple,

 

Thats the way I see things but I have tried to cover every thing that might be thrown at me.

 

But I have also been told to keep focused on the one fact.no matter what they say no matter what evidence they produce.

The fact is I didnt take out the loan.

And it is and always ghas been my car. Present my supporting evidence and keep going back to that point.

I no Wisemyer will try and complicate things but Im not going to get caught up in the fight.

Its simple.

Its my car and under section 5 of the BOS act makes voids any paperwork for the security on my car.

 

Simples

[applecart]

Morning Nicky

 

Can I take it then that we are now on the same page then?

 

You stay focused, but cautious - I know you will

 

Apple : )

[Nicky Bodmin]

Thanks Apple,

 

One thing about me, when I get my teeth into an issue I will not be moved. No compromise

 

I will keep shouting untill im heard. I will get justise you see

[applecart]

Thanks Apple,

 

One thing about me, when I get my teeth into an issue I will not be moved. No compromise

 

I will keep shouting untill im heard. I will get justise you see

 

 

Loving your spirit Nicky : )

 

Whilst I can't be there with you on the day of reckoning - you know you have the support of all caggers - like I said - you go get um : )

 

 

Apple : )

[Nicky Bodmin]

Hi Apple,

 

Thanks I will