Friends unknown return of goods order - Santander car finance

[davrym]

Hi Everybody.

 

This is for my friend. They have registered but for some reason there is a delay in getting activated. car purchased through Santander. Paid over 1/3 of amount. Defaulted in January 2010. Lost job. Explained this to finance company also that could not make February payment. requested that these be put on to end of agreement. Or be made up at a later date. They did not accept. Have five pages of e-mails requesting that payments be taken and direct debit be restarted. Santander did not even respond to proposals and went to court on the 3/6/10 and got an order to repossess the car. She did not get a copy of the court date only a witness statement from the solicitor acting as agent. Telephoned solicitor to get date of hearing. Attended court only to be told that the hearing had been held early and that she was 5 mins late. She has been given an application notice by the court but does not know what to do with it. She has the money to repay the outstanding payments. Can anybody help.

 

many thanks

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Was the order made for the repossession of the vehicle?? If so I suspect the application notice, (N244), would be required to file for judgment to be set aside. Your friend needs to get this filled in and sent to the court ASAP!!!!

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

She needs to hide that car until she gets this sorted or she'll lose it and be liable for the remaining balance!!!!

[davrym]

It was made for the repossession of the car. She was given an N244. Does she fill this in and pass it to the court or to the solicitor and finanace company? How long is it usually before someone will come for the car?

 

Thanks for replying

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

To be fair, if they've got a court order they can turn up at any time of the day or night and legally take it.

She needs to fill the N244 in stating a request for a set aside and the reasons and then take it straight to the court, I'm not sure but I think there might be a fee too.

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

The problem is Return of Goods claims are only listed for 5 minute hearings so in her being 5 minutes late she missed the whole thing!!

 

But also, I think it's important to add that she did not receive any notice of hearing from the court or solicitor and so was unprepared.

[davrym]

Thank you. I will get her to fill in the form and pass it in to the court tomorrow. Does this override the court order or will that be in force until the new hearing?

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

I believe you can apply for a "stay of execution" pending the outcome of the set aside hearing. This will prevent them from taking any action until this has been resolved properly. Hope that helps and best of luck

[davrym]

Thank you for your help. I will let you know what happens.

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

You're welcome, keep us posted

[davrym]

please help ..... repo man outside house. Order from court was for us to return the car. Filed for set aside judgement. Court told me that if they want to repossess the car they have to apply for a warrant. he has not a copy of the warrant. Also does it not have to be a rep from the court who comes to take the car.....need advice urgent

[cctv engineer]

the only thing you can do if you can is move the car (hide it) if they have a court order then yes they can take it

[davrym]

Have just had lengthy conversation with repo man. Showed him copy of set aside request. Told him that the court informed me that The finance company have to apply for a warrant to recover the vehicle and I have been told by the court that they have had no such request. He seemed to accept this and has asked me to go to the court on Monday to clarify this and telephone him.........is this usual or is he wanting to get me out of the way.

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

I would also agree with the above post, move/hide the car if at all possible at least until this is sorted out.

 

As far as I know the creditor needs to apply for a warrant of execution and then court bailiffs come for the car not the average joe repo man. I believe that to be the procedure anyway, that would seem to tally with what the courts have told you.

 

You really need to get the car out of the way, it's so much harder to get it back once they've taken it. Definitely get to the court, or ring them, first thing monday to clarify exactly what the situation is and inform them of what's happened.

 

Was the repo man a repo man and definitely not bailiff???

 

Do you have a copy of the order you could post up??

[Ell-enn]

The creditor needs to apply for a warrant of execution before the car can be legally removed, Repo agents cannot remove the vehicle from private land even if they have a copy of the warrant. Only a county court bailiff can remove from private land (i.e. your drive) so don't leave it on the road till you've been to court and got the possession stopped.

 

What was put in the N244? particularly Q10? Has a date been given for a hearing at the court yet?

[davrym]

Thanks for your help guys. The man did not actually say what he was. He just had a photocopy of the statement of arrears and that the court had ordered the goods returned.

 

As in my previous post I told him that they had to apply for a warrant. He agreed that we would speak on Monday as he would probably get told off for not taking the car there and then. He did sit in his car for about 20 minutes on the phone and then left.

 

The order reads:

 

Before deputy district judge blah blah.....................upon hearing the solicitor for the claimant and defendant not attending

 

It is adjudged that the claimant do recover against the defendant the following goods of the claimant wrongly kept by the defendant, namely:- (details of car) of the value of 5709.94 and the sum of 335.00 for costs.

 

It is ordered that the defendant do return the goods to the claimant by 3rd June 2010. (date of hearing)

 

And that the defendant do also pay the sum of 335.00 for costs to reach the claimant by 3rd June 2010.

 

Money claims adjourned generally with liberty to restore.

 

as for the N244 Q10 we ticked Statement of Case. and attached all correspondence we have had with claimant with regard to making up the late payments. There are 5 pages of e-mails with the last two proposing payment schedules they did not even respond to.

[Markiemark1]

Most finance companies will send their repo agent along with a copy of the Order in the hope that you will surrender the vehicle or that it is on the road and they can uplift. However, as has been said, if it is on private property the vehicle cannot be removed except by a Court bailiff executing a Warrant of Delivery. By virtue of his position a bailiff is exempt from the usual rules regarding trespass if he is executing a warrant.

 

Of course, most people don't know their rights, hence this practice has expanded and expanded.

 

Have you now filed the N244 and if so has a hearing date been set?

 

MM

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Did you get clarification from court yesterday???

 

Sorry for the impatience I have a vested interest

[davrym]

Hi Guys,

 

Firstly thank you all for your help and advice.

 

Filed N244 got date for hearing which was today. Case lasted 10 minutes and the the judge accepted our offer of increased monthly payments to cover the arrears and costs. the claimants solicitor tried to say that we must have got the original court papers because "he had sent them" the judge dismissed this outright.

 

They also tried to get 465.00 in costs. We argued the validity of these charges ie 12 minutes to diarise the hearing = 26.00 and 12.00 per telephone call etc.

 

 

Again the judge agreed and awarded them 100.00 all in. I can now go and get my car from its resting place and carry on. I would like to point out the importance of people asking the repo man for the Warrant of Delivery/Execution, not just the return of goods order, because any officer of the court will tell you that they can not touch your vehicle unless they have one.

 

Again many thanks for your help and if anybody wants to ask for any specifics about the process feel free.

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

That is an outstanding result!!! Many congratulations to you

 

Please fill us in on the specifics of the warrant of execution and how it needs to be applied and what the court's view was of the repo man turning up

[davrym]

I do not know much about the details or wording of the warrant of execution. When I went to the court and spoke to the clerk she told me that when a return of goods order is issued by the court then the claimant will try to recover the goods via repo men. However THEY must apply for a warrant of execution and that warrant must be served by a court baliff. A repo man is simply a private firm that finance companies use to get the vehicle back without going through this process. Unfortunately most people give the goods back as soon as the repo man knocks. The car must be on private land though or the repo man will just take it.

 

The judge did not have any views on the attempts by Santander to recover the car as they did not follow proper procedure and I had stored the vehicle off road. It is simply an unfortunate fact that finance companies use repo men.

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Sorry for sounding like a dumbo but could you just reiterate one last time for me that a repo man cannot take a car from private land without first applying for a warrant of execution???

[davrym]

Hi wannabedebtfreesoon,

 

A repo man does not apply for the warrant of execution. The finance company has to apply for this to actually recover the car. Once they have the return of goods order they (finance company) must apply to the court for a warrant of execution. The warrant is then served by a court baliff not a repo man. If, like I did, you have filed the N244 to have the original order set aside or varied the a court baliff will not bother to enforce the warrant until the outcome of the new court case.

 

Repo men are private companies with no connection to the courts. I do not know whereabouts you are from but if you phone your local court and ask for the orders section they will tell you that a repo man can not touch a vehicle without the court issuing a warrant of execution to the finance company and then it must be a court baliff.

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Thank you very kindly for that information I did know this already but it makes a big difference to actually hear it from an official source

 

You see in my case, there was no return of goods order and the repo man came on to my private property and took the car. I knew it was meant to be a bailiff but these lot are not exactly the law abiding sort!

 

I issued a claim against them because of this and it is due to come to it's conclusion very soon

 

Congratulations again on your success

[Ell-enn]

We've been saying this for a long time - glad the court confirmed it.