Full & Final Settlement offer advice on how to clear asap

[nodefaults2010]

Hi horsemad1,

 

AIC are a joke. They have threatened me in the past a number of times on behalf of various creditors and each time I have called their bluff and they have backed off rather quickly or never been heard from again. I would stand strong on this one and, as you suggest, ask for proof of delivery of their supposed letter. You may also wish to remind them that manufacturing such letter is illegal and that you will happily and promptly report them to the financial ombudsman, OFT, trading standards and if necessary the courts of law if they continue to assert this when it is incorrect.

 

Very likely they will then blame the other DCA or at least state that they will check with them for proof so they can extricate themselves from any suggestion of fraudulent activity on their part. I very much doubt they will proceed any further with it anyway.

 

Crikey, I see my thread has grown legs since i last posted !!! Well looking for a bit of help again really. One of my largest debts which was settled by F&F has resurrected itself over 12 months later in the form AIC whom I believe are a particularly nasty bunch. I got a telephone call out of the blue from them about 3 weeks ago to which i sent my scanned copy letters of F&F with cheq. etc. and they have written back today to say they have been in contact with their client and a F&F has never been agreed between their client or their previous agent and have produced a copy of a letter form the previous DCA to whom i did the F&F which is dated 19th may 2010 (2 days after my F&F letter) declining my F&F saying it would instead be used as an installment !!!! Firstly I received no such letter last year and secondly this is the first contact about this in over 12 months.

 

legally i think i am on firm ground, given that The Mould & 4 different Solicitors said the contract was formed on banking the cheque and that there is no legal contract between us now, however, the fact this has resurfaced along with this letter and maybe thrown a curveball into the equation has got me a bit unsure as to what to do> i will ask for a proof of delivery for this letter because that is the only way they can prove I received it and for me to prove it hasn't just been written now and backdated, but how should i reply to AIC. I remember Mould speaking to them last year over another F&F on my behalf and they were extremely rude, aggressive and downright obnoxious so I do not want to let this just lie. Any suggestions?

[nodefaults2010]

BD - would love to attend your bash, if for no other reason than to have a valet park my zimmer! You could also try to do a full and final for a very low amount to each of your remaing creditors/their DCAs using the methods we have all discussed within this thread (i.e. via a 3rd party) so that you don't have to wait another 1980 months but only 72 at the most!!

 

No defaults. I agree with both your recent posts. I too have changed my views - especially in dealing with DCA's - now very similar to your own. I shall resist every attempt by them to extract any more of my hard earned cash from me - other than the token payments currently in place. Incidentally please put a note in your diary to come to my FREE FROM DEBT party to be held in approximately 1980 months' time when the last monthly £5 will have been paid over!. There will be a valet on hand to park zimmers and a creche for carers! Besty of luck! BD

[nodefaults2010]

Linda - without wanting to be overly critical, how what percentage of the proceeds from this book are you donating to CAG?

 

I notice the reviews on Amazon.co.uk all give 5 stars out of 5 and all of the reviewers have only reviewed your books!! Isn't that a bit amateur? At least make it a bit more convincing if you write your own reviews on Amazon, or are the reviewers all members of your fanclub?!

 

In all seriousness, I would be disappointed if you seek to profit from a collation & regurgitation of material contained on this website. Surely the intention is to help indebted people, many of whom have their backs to the wall and are in a desparate situation.....if you have benefitted from this site then why seek to profit from it and the misfortune of others? You could simply provide the advice free and not charge for it.

 

I did some full and final offers that worked well - I only paid 10% of a £12k alleged debt to one. In fact I only paid £2,300 out of the £53k they were asking. I wrote the book after using this great site and realising it would help others if I pulled it all together. You can buy the book (How I Got out of Debt by Playing the Banks at their Own Game by Linda Franklin on my website and there are template letters there to help in other situations. Good luck! Linda

[nodefaults2010]

Sequenci - thanks for looking into this further. I agree that Welby v Drake may apply to a 3rd party payment.

 

But have you had any further thoughts on specifically how The Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 might apply in this situation? i.e. does the creditor, by ignoring the terms of the new contract made with the debtor's third party representative (via the letter and cheque, when the cheque is cashed and the offer not rejected in sufficient time or at all), breach the terms of the contract by not recognising full and final settlement, thereby denying the rights of the 3rd party to this new contract (i.e. the original debtor) and therefore be open to legal remedy due to the tenets of The Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999?

 

In other words, I could see how Welby v Drake and Bracken v Billinghurst would show that the creditor was committing a fraud against the 3rd party who was party to the new contract with the creditor but is there also an angle for the original debtor to take action as the 3rd party to the new contract?

I took a look at this last night again.

 

It was held in Welby v Drake that part-payment of a debt via a third-party would be contractually binding. I think Bracken v Billinghurst has already been quoted as the leading modern authority; not only was the payment made via a third-party - it was paid by cheque.

 

So, I'm pretty sure that as long as the traditional process of making a contract (e.g. offer + acceptance of that offer based upon clear and unequivocal terms) is followed there can be no arguments.

[IainHL]

Hi Iain - settlement was made in all but one of my cases with the OC, only one DCA...

 

Hi there NoDefaults, thanks for your response to my questions. Certainly much food for thought there.

 

..As a final point, you mention partial settlement - I would not bother with that and go for full and final settlement if I were you, to avoid any possibility that they or any DCAs they pass it on to may chase you in the future for any remaining balance. Good luck with it all.

 

Apologies, I was being a little lax with my words in my original post. I meant a full and final settlement offer paying only a part of the total outstanding balance (hence the use of the word 'partial'). I do take your point.

[horsemad1]

Thanks ND, this OC has no signed CCA so it would be difficult for them to pursue anyway, just with the fact it's been over a year since anything has happned with this kind of threw me..... Will cobble together a letter & post up for comments.

[sequenci]

But have you had any further thoughts on specifically how The Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 might apply in this situation? i.e. does the creditor, by ignoring the terms of the new contract made with the debtor's third party representative (via the letter and cheque, when the cheque is cashed and the offer not rejected in sufficient time or at all), breach the terms of the contract by not recognising full and final settlement, thereby denying the rights of the 3rd party to this new contract (i.e. the original debtor) and therefore be open to legal remedy due to the tenets of The Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999?

 

Still trying to understand how and why it might apply, I'm certainly as keen as you to see if there are any arguments. I just wish my brain would work faster!

[panther12]

Received the below from Wescot:

 

We refer to your recent communication. Having contacted our client they have advised that they hold no record of this account being agreed and paid via a settlement figure. Please provide proof of payment along with documentation to show this was an agreed settlement, in order for further investigation.

 

I enclosed in my previous correspondence to wescot a copy of the terms that accompanied the settlement cheque sent to Moorcroft. I will send again, together with a copy of both sides of the settlement cheque. I imagine that they will come back with some carp saying that this settlement was not agreed with our client. The terms were very clear and not open to interpretation and conduct has bound them to the settlement agreement. We shall wait & see.

[sequenci]

Thanks for that Panther, do keep us posted - it's an interesting one for sure.

[panther12]

Thanks for that Panther, do keep us posted - it's an interesting one for sure.

 

Yup will do.

I’ll get the below sent off and see what they come back with. Be interesting to see what natwest make of it as it’ll probably be the first time they get to know what Moorcroft have done.

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOU OR ANY COMPANY YOU REPRESENT

 

I write in relation to your letter dated 26/08/2011 and received by me 02/09/2011, the contents therein are noted and I respond to the same.

 

You state that having contacted your client they have advised that they hold no record of this account being agreed and paid via a settlement figure, asking that I provide proof of payment along with documentation of the agreed settlement.

 

In my letter to you dated 17/08/2011 you were presented with full details of the settlement agreement concluded between the parties, enclosing copies of the settlement agreement and other correspondence originally sent to your client’s instructed agent, Moorcroft Debt Recovery Ltd, who were duly authorised to act on their behalf.

 

As for the proof you request, I have already in previous correspondence furnished you with said proof but, for finality, I once again enclose the proof you request, including other documentation and a copy of the cheque payment from the third party benefactor. I can confirm that funds were debited from the third party benefactor’s account on statement dated 09/05/2011.

 

Should you and/or your client continue to maintain that no settlement agreement existed, I will, if necessary, have no hesitation in this matter being placed before the courts. As stated to you previously, whatever issues your client has in relation to this settlement agreement concluded between the parties is a matter for them to resolve with their previously instructed agent acting under full authority of the client.

 

I consider this now concludes final closure to this matter and trust this clarifies the situation for you.

[horsemad1]

OK, how does this letter look to send to AIC.

 

I refer to your letter of 25th August 2011, the contents have been noted. I took legal advice before making a full and final settlement offer and there is now no contract or agreement in legal existence between me and Northern Rock

In response, I never received any such letter from First Credit or Northern Rock informing me that my fathers cheque in full and final settlement of the account was not accepted and I would ask that you provide a proof of delivery of this letter.

Furthermore it is over 12 months since I have heard anything further regarding this matter until you contacted me.

In summary, I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS DEBT AND THEREFORE REQUIRE YOU TO SUBSTANTIATE THIS BY PROVIDING THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTATION BEFORE I WILL CORRESPOND FURTHER :

 

1. True copy of original signed executed credit agreement

2. Copy of the executed deed of assignment from Northern Rock

3. A fair processing notice.

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

 

What do you think?

[horsemad1]

Bump

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I'd say ok send it rd.

[horsemad1]

ok cheers will do. Will await their reply and keep you all posted.

[nodefaults2010]

HI horsemad1,

 

The letter looks fine although I am not sure why you even need to mention the following:

 

1. True copy of original signed executed credit agreement

2. Copy of the executed deed of assignment from Northern Rock

3. A fair processing notice.

 

If you mention these then surely it justs presents them with an avenue to reopen a discussion on whther you owe a debt or not. The salient point is that the debt has been fully and finally settled. End of. Whether there actually was an enforceable debt, etc. is now irrelevant because by their conduct in cashing a 3rd party cheque sent in full and final settlement that was accompanied by a letter with clear and unequivocal terms of settlement should they cash the cheque and then no rejection from them at all or within a resonable period of time, they have demonstrated that the settlement was full and final. Hence no obligation to them from you exists any longer.

 

I appreciate you may be trying a belt and braces approach but in a way you may be weakening or losing some of the strneght of your argument. Maybe not though, others may nnot see it this way. But it seems best to mu mind to keep it simple and focused on the fact that it was a valid full and final settlement and the argument stops there. Either way, I don't think they can do much and are merely making noise to see if they can push you into some action that benefits them. I would just continue to hold firm if I were you. Good luck with it whichever way you choose to respond.

OK, how does this letter look to send to AIC.

 

I refer to your letter of 25th August 2011, the contents have been noted. I took legal advice before making a full and final settlement offer and there is now no contract or agreement in legal existence between me and Northern Rock

In response, I never received any such letter from First Credit or Northern Rock informing me that my fathers cheque in full and final settlement of the account was not accepted and I would ask that you provide a proof of delivery of this letter.

Furthermore it is over 12 months since I have heard anything further regarding this matter until you contacted me.

In summary, I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS DEBT AND THEREFORE REQUIRE YOU TO SUBSTANTIATE THIS BY PROVIDING THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTATION BEFORE I WILL CORRESPOND FURTHER :

 

1. True copy of original signed executed credit agreement

2. Copy of the executed deed of assignment from Northern Rock

3. A fair processing notice.

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

 

What do you think?

[king123]

Horsemad, I agree with nodefaults. You're giving them several avenues of attack there. Just tell them you settled this debt via a third party and that it's binding, and that you consider the matter closed.

[king123]

Nodefaults, did you negotiate first and then send settlement cheques, or did you just send the cheques unsolicited along with your terms and hope that they cashed them?

[nodefaults2010]

Hi king123, Most of them had at some point made an offer to consider short settlement but had not made any specific offer that was taken up by me and no specific previous correspondence was tied in to the full and final settlement that was made in the end in each case i.e. no specific agreement was reached before cheques and letter were sent by the 3rd party relating to each of my accounts.

[king123]

Thanks mate. I've considered that strategy but it's a little risky perhaps? I have one that it's time to try and settle so am considering my options. Thanks again.

[horsemad1]

Response fro AIC saying they have noted my comments and have been in contact with Northern rock who are looking into the matter...... Will wait to see what response i get if any.....

[billyray]

I had a 5yr loan with egg, and had 1 year left to fall off my credit report, now they have sold it to Britannica Recoveries S.A.R.L, and it has reset the clock to another +5 years now. Has anyone else had this? Anything can be done with this?

[king123]

That doesn't sound right Billyray. I think you should start a new thread btw as the topic here is full and final settlements and it was started by horsemad1.

[nodefaults2010]

billyray - it has NOT reset the clock. the 6 years is from the date of the last payment you make. Selling the debt has absolutely no effect on this. The credit reporting agencies have to remove any defaults markers and traces of the debt after this period of time. It is NOT a new debt and you need to highlight this to all concerned when the time is right.

 

king123 is correct though, you should post this as a new thread. best of luck with getting it resolved.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

The only thing you need to do is check

your th sameCRA files for the change of ownership

and make sure the default date is still .

[cfs_too]

billyray - it has NOT reset the clock. the 6 years is from the date of the last payment you make. Selling the debt has absolutely no effect on this. The credit reporting agencies have to remove any defaults markers and traces of the debt after this period of time. .

 

I'm so sorry to hijack this thread, but please may I ask for a little more confirmation to the above posting, I will give an example of one of my debts. Default is 3.5 years ago, and I have been making token payments since then, if I stopped token payments today - when would this debt fall off my credit report, is it 6 years from today or in another 2.5 years, ie then it would be 6 years since default? Is is that the default may disappear in 2.5 years, but underpayment still will appear for another 6 years from today? Thanks me_too