Locked in council car park

[spb1957]

My problem seems unusual as searches have not revealed anything as yet, so some advice please.

 

On a recent visit to watch a football match I found a previously unknown car park which had no signs whatsoever.

The only sign from the road was for 'playing fields', nothing whatsoever in the car park.

 

On my return I found my car locked in with a hand written note saying it was a private car park.

I was unable to secure the release of my car until the next morning, despite efforts by the police and council to locate a key holder.

Fortunately the car was not damaged as I had feared but I did lose a day's work as result of not being able to get my car out until the following morning.

 

It transpires that the car park is owned by the council.

I feel aggrieved mostly that I have lost a day's pay as well as having incurred expenses for several phone calls, arranging for someone to collect me and take me back the next day as well as inconvenience and stress caused.

 

Can I hold the council responsible for this money and what is the best way forward ?

[sailor sam]

I very much doubt that you can claim anything as you chose to park your car there. You could give us the post code/location so we can see anything which may help.

 

I'm not sure if there is any obligation by the land owner to place signs unless he is making some kind of charge. Was there a sign saying that you could park there? Would you have parked on someone's driveway just because it didn't have a sign saying private?

 

Sorry if i'm sounding negative on this but i'm trying to think the way a judge would see it if it went to court.

 

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[spb1957]

I appreciate what you say about a driveway, but this is what looks like for all intents and purposes a public car park adjacent to public playing fields. Without any signs how is anyone to know ?

[lamma]

they aren't. there needs to be clear signage.

[sailor sam]

I appreciate what you say about a driveway, but this is what looks like for all intents and purposes a public car park adjacent to public playing fields. Without any signs how is anyone to know ?

 

Can you give us the location in case its covered by google street view? Or post pics up of the entrance.

 

Personally from what you have said so far, I don't think you have a case. If they were charging you to release your car (similar to being clamped) then YES, there would need to be signage, but as they simply closed the barrier/gate (which I think they would be entitled to), i'm not so sure they have done anything wrong. What may be a small glimmer of hope is the fact that they could of left a contact number of the key holder so you could of contacted someone.

 

I'm simply trying to see how this would pan out in a small claims case.

 

Did the old bill pass any comment?

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

[Mossycat]

they aren't. there needs to be clear signage.

 

Doesn't that only apply where there is charging or the risk of clamping?

 

To my mind if I own some land and have a gate or a barrier and someone decides to park there without permission I am entitled to close and lock my gate or barrier.

 

The OP chose to park there, obviously there were no signs saying CAR PARK etc, so I would have thought it's a case of parker beware

 

Mossy

[Conniff]

To my mind if I own some land and have a gate or a barrier and someone decides to park there without permission I am entitled to close and lock my gate or barrier.

 

But this is Council land not private so by association is owned by the OP.

[sailor sam]

Hopefully the OP will provide us with some more info/pics so we can see the situ. I don't think we can really appreciate whats what without more details.

 

I'm still not sure a judge wouldl award any compensation from what we know so far though even if it is council land.

[Mossycat]

But this is Council land not private so by association is owned by the OP.

 

Then by association I own a hell of a lot of land, and a huge number of houses! :D:D

 

Mossy

[green_and_mean]

But this is Council land not private so by association is owned by the OP.

 

You are of course assuming that he is a resident of that local authority not that it would matter Council property is not owned by the public its owned by the local authority. Using your argument I also own my local swimming pool and can demand to go swimming at 3am because I own it?

[spb1957]

OK, here is the picture of the entrance to the car park. The fact that it is a car park cannot be questioned in my mind . It is situated at King George V Playing Fields, Barnet Lane, Barnet. Obviously there were other cars there when I arrived and the pictures I took were merely to confirm the absence of any signage. When I sought help from the council's out of hours line, I was told that they normally locked car parks at dusk (I returned to my car at 5pm) Having spoken to some of the locals, they told me I was lucky (ha-ha) to have found it open.

 

 

I do have 3 other photos from diferent angles but they don't tell much of a story. Just an empty car park (save for my car) and no signs. It seems it is used by local amateur football clubs and they just open it when they want to use it.

[spb1957]

Incidentally, green and mean, swimming pools have clear opening and closing times. And if they locked someone in I'm sure something would be said !

[green_and_mean]

Incidentally, green and mean, swimming pools have clear opening and closing times. And if they locked someone in I'm sure something would be said !

 

According to Conniff I own the pool so can change the times to suit me then. They would also check the pool as they probably did with the park and found you had parked and gone elsewhere.

Edited April 13, 2010 by green_and_mean

[Mossycat]

OK, here is the picture of the entrance to the car park. The fact that it is a car park cannot be questioned in my mind . It is situated at King George V Playing Fields, Barnet Lane, Barnet. Obviously there were other cars there when I arrived and the pictures I took were merely to confirm the absence of any signage. When I sought help from the council's out of hours line, I was told that they normally locked car parks at dusk (I returned to my car at 5pm) Having spoken to some of the locals, they told me I was lucky (ha-ha) to have found it open.

 

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I do have 3 other photos from diferent angles but they don't tell much of a story. Just an empty car park (save for my car) and no signs. It seems it is used by local amateur football clubs and they just open it when they want to use it.

 

Yes it looks like a car park to me, however I don't see any signs saying that it is a public car park or that just anyone can park there. There is no onus on the owner of land to put up signs saying what the land is NOT, however, there is an onus on the landowner to put up signs if it is a car park that is charging etc.

 

In the absence of those signs you chose to park there without ascertaining if you could do so legally, or if you were likely to be locked in. Common sense would dictate that if you see a carpark with a barrier you would check when and if that barrier would be locked, I see it that you are the author of your own misfortune and any consequential losses (time off work etc) are down to you.

 

Mossy

[green_and_mean]

My local parks have a sign somewhere in the park with all the information such as no playing golf, no BBQs and the park shuts at dusk but they are within the park for park users not in the car park.

[Mossycat]

My local parks have a sign somewhere in the park with all the information such as no playing golf, no BBQs and the park shuts at dusk but they are within the park for park users not in the car park.

 

I suspect that the reason they have signs is that they are a public park, and as such they are informing legitimate users/visitors of the rules and regulations and closing times.

 

This is not a public car park, therefore no signs are required, any legitimate users/visitors are presumably told what they need to know by the landowner.

 

Mossy

[green_and_mean]

I suspect that the reason they have signs is that they are a public park, and as such they are informing legitimate users/visitors of the rules and regulations and closing times.

 

This is not a public car park, therefore no signs are required, any legitimate users/visitors are presumably told what they need to know by the landowner.

 

Mossy

 

I have to agree, why is someone else always to blame? The OP says 'it transpired it was owned by the Council' therefore when he parked he didn't have a clue who owned the car park and was not entitled to park there. He took a gamble to avoid paying for parking elsewhere and got caught out, get over it and move on.

[sailor sam]

I've taken a look on street view and there appears to be about 3 such entances to these playing fields, none of which have signs but they all have similar barriers. Personally, I would of been vey reluctant to park my car in such a car park where there are barriers unless I was attending an event at the same site where others would be parked. The fields/car park are obviously council owned in my opinion.

 

I'm afraid that I cannot see how the OP can hold anybody resposible for his car being locked in. However, I would of expected a reasonable person with any comon sence who locked the barrier to have left a number that the OP could of contacted to enable him to get his car out. I supppose the OP could write to the council's parks department by way of complaint and see what response he gets but I don't think there is anything legal he can do about it.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

[filthysurfer]

why is someone else always to blame?

 

Well done green_and_mean. A point of view not often heard these days.

[Al27]

I have to agree, why is someone else always to blame? The OP says 'it transpired it was owned by the Council' therefore when he parked he didn't have a clue who owned the car park and was not entitled to park there. He took a gamble to avoid paying for parking elsewhere and got caught out, get over it and move on.

 

Isn't that blaming the OP for his actions?

 

He made an honest mistake and who wouldn't park somewhere for free if it looked legit?

 

I have sympathy but don't think he has a leg to stand on in getting money. Definitely one to take on the chin!

[green_and_mean]

Isn't that blaming the OP for his actions?

 

He made an honest mistake and who wouldn't park somewhere for free if it looked legit?

 

I have sympathy but don't think he has a leg to stand on in getting money. Definitely one to take on the chin!

 

That was my point we all make mistakes, he was lucky the car wasn't towed or torched by local hooligans.....

 

Some things in life are bad

They can really make you mad

Other things just make you swear and curse.

When you're chewing on life's gristle

Don't grumble, give a whistle

And this'll help things turn out for the best...

And...always look on the bright side of life...

Always look on the light side of life...

[Al27]

Too true!

[My Real Name]

Doesn't that only apply where there is charging or the risk of clamping?

Locking a car in a car park counts as immobilisation. The method is not defined in statute (and only referred to in case law), and neither is charging mentioned.

[Mossycat]

Locking a car in a car park counts as immobilisation. The method is not defined in statute (and only referred to in case law), and neither is charging mentioned.

 

Are you suggesting that the land owner does not have the legal right to lock his gates/barriers when someone parks on his land without consent then?

 

Mossy

[My Real Name]

No. I think that it's untested.

 

The question is one of where is the balance between the right to do what you want on your own land, and the duty to act in a fair and appropriate manner, and i accordance with statute.