help going to lose my home. dca

[blackbear101]

if the original creditor has unlawful rescission and terminated my account and sold it on to a DCA( no default notice, note of assignment) then got a a ccj and charge order. then i sent off for a sar and notice the original creditor never issued a default notice is this strong ground to get the ccj set aside. thanks

[mkb]

That single line sums the whole situation up perfectly.

 

If you need a recommendation for a legal rep PM me

 

D

 

 

Sorry to butt in here but Delphi, have been trying to PM you but box is full

 

Please can you make space - need that recommendation for my case

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/258102-creditor-wants-charging-order.html

 

Thanks

 

Sorry again for mini-hijack

[blackbear101]

have a look at no 3

http://www.insolvencyhelpline.co.uk/ccj-removal/valid-reasons.php

Edited May 5, 2010 by blackbear101

[blackbear101]

not got court adjourned, so in court tuesday. not got sar off the dca or the original bank, got nothing. i wish i found this site years ago. i just hope people learn by my mistake. thanks for all the info.

 

just 2 more things 1 if a bank did not follow procedures ie sending me a default notice,notice of assignment and a default me on my credit file unlawful recession do i have grounds to sue the bank.

 

 

lastly,if i hired a company who took my money and said they would challange cca and claim back ppi and wipe cc deb remove ccj then went bust (ratio money) would this be strong grounds to get ccj setaside as this process taken almost 2 years. i rang them often just to be fed a lot of bull, they the stoped talking to me.

 

just a thought

[pt2537]

 

just 2 more things 1 if a bank did not follow procedures ie sending me a default notice,notice of assignment and a default me on my credit file unlawful recession do i have grounds to sue the bank. Unlikely,the judgment takes precedent over the agreement in most cases, therefore the the failure to issue a default should have been raised in proceedings,its closing the door after the horse has bolted here. There are possibilities to challenge an agreement, Southern District Finance v Turner allows this even at this stage , however, you would need the agreement to show it was improperly executed, you may have better chances of success if the default notice was defective in some way, but this would need the notice to be present to show the defects. otherwise its your word against the banks..............

 

 

lastly,if i hired a company who took my money and said they would challange cca and claim back ppi and wipe cc deb remove ccj then went bust (ratio money) would this be strong grounds to get ccj setaside as this process taken almost 2 years. i rang them often just to be fed a lot of bull, they the stoped talking to me. No, it would not, without question, the failings of the parties legal representatives are considered the failings of the party themselves

 

just a thought

 

see above in blue:)

[wish me well]

Hi Blackbear,

 

Ok, I cannot help you on this fight BUT I know a man/woman who can!!

 

Its The Mould, he/she will be on here tommorrow night to help you fight, I was asked to give you this message: it maybe possible to fight this, The Mould cannot advise until tomorrow night but The Mould will go through all of this and if it is indeed possible, will help you!!

 

Ok, I hope this offers a little reassurance and I will check back just to see whats happening.

 

Good luck with everything although if you have The Mould on your side, you may not need luck

 

Kindest wishes sent

 

Wish Me Well:)

[The Mould]

not got court adjourned, so in court tuesday. not got sar off the dca or the original bank, got nothing. i wish i found this site years ago. i just hope people learn by my mistake. thanks for all the info.

 

just 2 more things 1 if a bank did not follow procedures ie sending me a default notice,notice of assignment and a default me on my credit file unlawful recession do i have grounds to sue the bank.

 

 

lastly,if i hired a company who took my money and said they would challange cca and claim back ppi and wipe cc deb remove ccj then went bust (ratio money) would this be strong grounds to get ccj setaside as this process taken almost 2 years. i rang them often just to be fed a lot of bull, they the stoped talking to me.

 

just a thought

 

 

Hello there blackbear,

 

That Default Notice (Or rather, the lack of it), this is the foundation that your defence stands on, upright and true.

 

Right, time is not on our side just yet, however, I am going to work on your case tonight and tommorrow, what have you got with you, I mean what are you going into court with on Tuesday.

 

If there was no Default Notice issued, then the creditor cannot take the action that has been taken against you, clearly the injustice has already taken place against you, but I am absolutely certain that the CCJ was unfair and incorrect, the piont of origin to this whole dreadful matter stems from the unjust actions of the original creditor.

 

This is going to be a tough one blackbear, but I want you to know that I am going to do everything I can to try and prevent this injustice that is rising against you, so hang on in there.

 

Come back and let me know what you have.

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[bobbydog]

go for it THE MOULD following with interest go mould go ..............

[pt2537]

Hello there blackbear,

 

That Default Notice (Or rather, the lack of it), this is the foundation that your defence stands on, upright and true.

 

Right, time is not on our side just yet, however, I am going to work on your case tonight and tommorrow, what have you got with you, I mean what are you going into court with on Tuesday.

 

If there was no Default Notice issued, then the creditor cannot take the action that has been taken against you, clearly the injustice has already taken place against you, but I am absolutely certain that the CCJ was unfair and incorrect, the piont of origin to this whole dreadful matter stems from the unjust actions of the original creditor.

 

This is going to be a tough one blackbear, but I want you to know that I am going to do everything I can to try and prevent this injustice that is rising against you, so hang on in there.

 

Come back and let me know what you have.

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

erm, with respect, the creditor can take action without a default notice, Goode Consumer Credit Law and Practice makes this very clear, for example if the debt at the point of issue is arrears only then no notice is needed. so i think the full facts of the case are needed to be able to say with any certainty as to what can be done;)

 

Setting aside the judgment is unlikely in my opinion, there is sufficient case law that states an application to set aside must be made promptly, the Court of Appeal held that an application made 30 days after the event was not prompt and therefore should not succeed.

 

So setting aside is unlikely, furthermore, there is the Director General of Fair Trading v First National which the House of Lords held that the CCJ overrides the agreement and therefore obtaining the agreement is going to be an uphill struggle, they can now say they no longer need it as judgment has been granted and the agreement could have been destroyed and therefore it would provide an unjust scenario if the judgment was set aside on the claimants part.

 

Just playing devils advocate here for a second

[Drowning but not sunk...]

Sorry to butt in. I am NO LEGAL MAN, just trying to help.

 

Would the original POC be the way to challenge the original CCJ? So if for example it states the default as part of its case could you not ask for that to be revisited?

 

Sorry if it does not help, just trying as I feel for him, it must be hell...

[The Mould]

erm, with respect, the creditor can take action without a default notice, Goode Consumer Credit Law and Practice makes this very clear, for example if the debt at the point of issue is arrears only then no notice is needed. so i think the full facts of the case are needed to be able to say with any certainty as to what can be done;)

 

Setting aside the judgment is unlikely in my opinion, there is sufficient case law that states an application to set aside must be made promptly, the Court of Appeal held that an application made 30 days after the event was not prompt and therefore should not succeed.

 

So setting aside is unlikely, furthermore, there is the Director General of Fair Trading v First National which the House of Lords held that the CCJ overrides the agreement and therefore obtaining the agreement is going to be an uphill struggle, they can now say they no longer need it as judgment has been granted and the agreement could have been destroyed and therefore it would provide an unjust scenario if the judgment was set aside on the claimants part.

 

Just playing devils advocate here for a second

 

Hello there pt2537,

 

There is an awful lot of injustice rolling across this fine land against good people, I believe the time has come to fight this wrongful way of ruling.

 

Obviously the House Of Lords can hold anything they want to, but it does not mean that one cannot challenge a ruling with a view to having it overruled.

 

Blackbear's case is a tragic one, but like the many thousands he did not know his full rights, his case has some complex areas, but there are clear facts to his case that cannot be ignored by the courts.

 

Again, obviously we all need some if not all the full facts to his situation, that way we can see a way to assist him, I believe, based on his post so far, that he has very strong grounds to have this court proceeding suspended (Stayed) pending investigation to the entirety of this dreadful matter, his Subject Access Request should throw up some evidence that can be used in his favour,this could have the possibility of going back to the beginning, the OC is clearly at fault here.

 

I do need some further info from blackbear, the CCA 1974 will play its part in his defence, there seems to be selectiveness going on in the courts regarding this statute, if we are going to have selectiveness at law, then we need to tear up every statute and have no law.

 

Injustice must not prevail either way, against the claimant or the defendant I agree, so I do hope that the Judge on Tuesday has the required wisdom to make a decision in favour of Justice, after all, that's precisely what the courts are there for.

 

Anyway, devils advocate eh, very good.

 

Well, this is most definately going to be a toughy, but it can be done.

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[The Mould]

blackbear101 are you there tonight?

 

Come back and please up-date, if you can, we all want to help you.

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[pt2537]

Hello there pt2537,

 

There is an awful lot of injustice rolling across this fine land against good people, I believe the time has come to fight this wrongful way of ruling.

 

Obviously the House Of Lords can hold anything they want to, but it does not mean that one cannot challenge a ruling with a view to having it overruled.

 

Blackbear's case is a tragic one, but like the many thousands he did not know his full rights, his case has some complex areas, but there are clear facts to his case that cannot be ignored by the courts.

 

Again, obviously we all need some if not all the full facts to his situation, that way we can see a way to assist him, I believe, based on his post so far, that he has very strong grounds to have this court proceeding suspended (Stayed) pending investigation to the entirety of this dreadful matter, his Subject Access Request should throw up some evidence that can be used in his favour,this could have the possibility of going back to the beginning, the OC is clearly at fault here.

 

I do need some further info from blackbear, the CCA 1974 will play its part in his defence, there seems to be selectiveness going on in the courts regarding this statute, if we are going to have selectiveness at law, then we need to tear up every statute and have no law.

 

Injustice must not prevail either way, against the claimant or the defendant I agree, so I do hope that the Judge on Tuesday has the required wisdom to make a decision in favour of Justice, after all, that's precisely what the courts are there for.

 

Anyway, devils advocate eh, very good.

 

Well, this is most definately going to be a toughy, but it can be done.

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

 

Hi Mould,

 

I dont know your background, nor do i seek to challenge your knowledge in this matter.

 

I simply speak from experience, and i tend to put myself in the shoes of the oppoents, if it were my client (the bank) and i was tasked with resisting the stay, then i would deal with it simply like this

 

The time for defending has passed, the Defendant has had a CCJ, an interim and final charging order ,which was held at a hearing and it is now on an order for sale he seeks to challenge the matter, this is unreasonable and not in line with the overriding objective. Secondly, a SAR is not sufficient to challenge, there are mechanisms within the CPR which provide for disclosure, furthermore the Defendant has the ability to make an application but failed to do so, therefore again there are failings on the Defendants part

 

Thirdly, if the Defendant now seeks to challenge the agreement, then he can do so, but he is not entitled to a copy under s78(1) (See Rankine v Amex) as the agreement has come to an end be it by proper method or improper method, the law does not prevent a creditor from terminating a contract,

 

in addition the fact there is a judgment means that the CCJ takes place of the agreement.

 

In my personal opinion, the order for sale can be overturned as the court must take into account of those with an interest in the property in basic terms, so, the order can be defeated, as for the challenge to the judgment, you MUST take into account that, if you fail in the challenge, you open Blackbear up to an order for costs and the costs could be easy 2-3k

 

 

 

I agree there is injustice, i fight this in my day job every day of the week, so i hear what you are saying, and i have slaughtered these opponents both at the court of the first instance and the Court of Appeal also,

[blackbear101]

when i go to court on tuesday i am going to ask the judge to prove to me arrow global owns the debt. this is what i am going to say.

 

1 i contacted cccs about my money problem and they give me a template letter to send to mbna to pay £1 token money

 

2 i paid this for 3 months

 

3 then out of the blue i had a invalid default notice of arror global

 

4 i sent arrow global a cca request( so i can have proof they own the dept)

 

5 herd nothing so sent follow up letter

 

6 still no reply, phoned them giving my name and address, account number. they never herd of me. could not ask for any info because of data protection

 

7 had court letter. i notice the account number was different so i put in my poor defence. i did not recognise the account number

 

8 arrow sent me a letter after reading my defence saying : as you correctly state in your part admission there are two account numbers ( 3 accounts numbers when i was in court, typing error they said) in this matter. the account number which you confirm as being correct is the original account number. The account number which is quoted in the proceeddings is the charge off number which is allocated to the matter when the dept was legally assigned to our client. so i am going to ask the judge why has it taken 12 months to tell me about the different account number. is this why arroww global did not respond to my letter

 

9 i dont know the court procedures, i did not know i could ammend my statement. as i did not have a help pack when filling my coyrt form

 

10 how can i challange the ccj when arrorw wont sen me the info i want.

 

11 they got the ccj but it still does not prove to me they own the debt

 

12 the proof of the dept they had for ccj was a old bank statement which you can find in my dustbin. a cca which you cant read, does not say credit card agreement,terms and condision on separate pages no link making the cca invalid, also a signuture on the addisional box i dont reconize

 

13 on there witness statement they said notice of the assignment was provided to the defendant ( which i never had)

 

14 so the only proof they had, they did not show the cout

 

15 so the ccj was awarded on a old statement which could find in my dustbin, what if some one else find another statement, can they go for a ccj and force me to sell my home. i need arrow global to show me and the court proof.

 

16 sent arrow a recorded letter for the cca again, still no reply

 

17 sent a cpr 31.14 for the disclosure andthe production of a verified and legible copy of the following , the agreement,the assignement, the oc default notice, the termination notice. still no reply

 

18 all leters are recorded delivery, checked on post office, never signed. i always put my return address on the back of the envelope.

 

19 i going to say to the judge before we look at the order for sale can the judge order arrow global to show me proof that they own the debt, because up to know they havent, and to order the sle of my home on the strenth of a old statement would be unfair.

 

20 and if doesnt work i will just have to make a payment plan.

 

can anyone can add to this or am i wasting my time.thanks

Edited May 9, 2010 by blackbear101

[pt2537]

when i go to court on tuesday i am going to ask the judge to prove to me arrow global owns the debt. this is what i am going to say.

 

1 i contacted cccs about my money problem and they give me a template letter to send to mbna to pay £1 token money

 

2 i paid this for 3 months

 

3 then out of the blue i had a invalid default notice of arror global

 

4 i sent arrow global a cca request( so i can have proof they own the dept)

 

5 herd nothing so sent follow up letter

 

6 still no reply, phoned them giving my name and address, account number. they never herd of me. could not ask for any info because of data protection

 

7 had court letter. i notice the account number was different so i put in my poor defence. i did not recognise the account number

 

8 arrow sent me a letter after reading my defence saying : as you correctly state in your part admission there are two account numbers ( 3 accounts numbers when i was in court, typing error they said) in this matter. the account number which you confirm as being correct is the original account number. The account number which is quoted in the proceeddings is the charge off number which is allocated to the matter when the dept was legally assigned to our client. so i am going to ask the judge why has it taken 12 months to tell me about the different account number. is this why arroww global did not respond to my letter

 

9 i dont know the court procedures, i did not know i could ammend my statement. as i did not have a help pack when filling my coyrt form

 

10 how can i challange the ccj when arror wont sen me the info i want.

 

11 they got the ccj but it still does not prove to me they own the dept

 

12 the proof of the dept they had for ccj was a old bank statement which you can find in my dustbin. a cca which you cant read, does not say credit card agreement,terms and condision on separate pages no link making the cca invalid, also a signuture on the addisional box i dont reconize

 

13 on there witness statement they said notice of the assignment was provided to the defendant ( which i never had)

 

14 so the only proof they had, they did not show the cout

 

15 so the ccj was awarded on a old statement which could find in my dustbin, what if some one else find another statement, can they go for a ccj and force me to sell my home. i need the arrow to show me and the court proof.

 

16 sent arrow a recorded letter for the cca again, still no reply

 

17 sent a cpr 31.14 for the disclosure andthe production of a verified and legible copy of the following , the agreement,the assignement, the oc default notice, the termination notice. still no reply

 

18 all leters are recorded delivery, checked on post office, never signed. i always put my return address on the back of the envelope.

 

19 i going to say to the judge before we look at the order for sale can the judge order arrow global to show me proof that the own the debt, because up to know they havent, and to order the sle of my home on the strenth of a old statement would be unfair.

 

20 and if doesnt work i will just have to make a payement plan.

 

can anyone can add to this or am i wasting my time.thanks

 

 

you have the Default notice?

 

If you do, on what basis is it invalid?

[blackbear101]

the only thing i can see is the dates, dont know why arrow global sent it, as i though mbna would send it first

Edited May 20, 2010 by blackbear101

[The Mould]

Hi Mould,

 

I dont know your background, nor do i seek to challenge your knowledge in this matter.

Thank you pt, I have no experience, but like the many, I know the difference between right and wrong.

I simply speak from experience, and i tend to put myself in the shoes of the oppoents, if it were my client (the bank) and i was tasked with resisting the stay, then i would deal with it simply like this

Yes I absolutely agree with you, one must look at what the opponents argument (s) is/are and find as many weaknesses as possible to contend against.

The time for defending has passed, the Defendant has had a CCJ, an interim and final charging order ,which was held at a hearing and it is now on an order for sale he seeks to challenge the matter, this is unreasonable and not in line with the overriding objective. Secondly, a SAR is not sufficient to challenge, there are mechanisms within the CPR which provide for disclosure, furthermore the Defendant has the ability to make an application but failed to do so, therefore again there are failings on the Defendants part

Yes there are failings on the defendant's part, he did not know how to respond, but the CCJ in this case has been obtained unfairly, the OC did not comply with legislation contained within the CCA 1974 (Amended) and therefore has taken this action without legal excuse, the OC is in breach of contract, the original credit agreement between him and blackbear, so blackbear can claim 'Recission of the agreement' as a remedy, (Not Unlawful Recission). For the OC to undertake the actions that he has without legal excuse, the conclusion is that the original agreement is no longer 'Live', the OC would need blackbear to agree to re-instatement in order to start the legal process all over again, obviously blackbear would never agree to this.

I do not know at the present time what the POC's were or are, or what documents the claimant relies on.

Thirdly, if the Defendant now seeks to challenge the agreement, then he can do so, but he is not entitled to a copy under s78(1) (See Rankine v Amex) as the agreement has come to an end be it by proper method or improper method, the law does not prevent a creditor from terminating a contract,

In these circumstances blackbear does not need to insist on being provided with a copy of the agreement.

in addition the fact there is a judgment means that the CCJ takes place of the agreement.

Yes I agree, but the CCJ in this case has been issued incorrectly, so we must refer to the original credit agreement, which, as I have mentioned above is no longer 'Live'.

In my personal opinion, the order for sale can be overturned as the court must take into account of those with an interest in the property in basic terms, so, the order can be defeated, as for the challenge to the judgment, you MUST take into account that, if you fail in the challenge, you open Blackbear up to an order for costs and the costs could be easy 2-3k

The OC is the problem here in this case, so, in order to prevent an injustice to either party in this action, I would say, the claimant must bring an action against the OC, and the defendant is released from liability as the original agreement has been violated by the OC and so I would grant the defendant recission of the contract as the court cannot make an order to enforce the defendant to re-instate the original agreement with the original OC.

That way neither party in this action suffers from any injustice and the actual offending party (The OC) must put things right with the claimant because the OC has caused all of these problems as he couldn't be bothered to comply with legislation contained within the CCA 1974 (Amended)

 

 

I agree there is injustice, i fight this in my day job every day of the week, so i hear what you are saying, and i have slaughtered these opponents both at the court of the first instance and the Court of Appeal also,

Well that is extremely pleasing to hear pt and congratulations to you for those fine victories, keep up with that superb work. (I am sure you will)

Kind Regards

The Mould

[pt2537]

Arrow are clearly protecting their buttocks by sending the default notice

 

Now key argument, is, did the default get posted on the 10th , key question, i would ask them to just clarify it, i wouldnt say why, just ask when it was posted according to their records, simple request,

 

if they say 10th then Boom, headshot, they are in trouble, real trouble as the Regs provide 14 days from date of service so you have an argument to run

[The Mould]

blackbear, can you post up the POC'S?

 

Who owns this debt blackbear,MBNA or Arrow Global?

 

What was your defence, originally?

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[The Mould]

Arrow are clearly protecting their buttocks by sending the default notice

 

Now key argument, is, did the default get posted on the 10th , key question, i would ask them to just clarify it, i wouldnt say why, just ask when it was posted according to their records, simple request,

 

if they say 10th then Boom, headshot, they are in trouble, real trouble as the Regs provide 14 days from date of service so you have an argument to run

 

Absolutely agree pt, that Default Notice is or can be the fatal blow that is required.

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[The Mould]

I would say that the 10th is the posting day.

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[The Mould]

blackbear what about their failure to comply with your CPR request, are you going to ask the court to do something about their conduct?

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[blackbear101]

10th is friday letter say before 24th

 

what is a poc`s

 

mbna is the original creditor, arrow global is the dca

arrow is the one who owns the debt

[The Mould]

blackbear we are going to go through your defence and strengthen it so that the court understands that if the court has it held with the claimant then this would result in an injustice being done.

 

This is going to take a little bit of time, Tuesday is your day in court, so it will be ready tommorrow.

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[blackbear101]

thank, still dont know what a poc is