Mindzai & Lucid vs Lloyds TSB ***WON UNCONDITIONALLY WITH CONTRACTUAL INTEREST***

[royboy68]

As you have read, the Bank, together with other major banks, is presently discussing the legal basis for these charges with the Office of Fair Trading. The Bank considers it unhelpful to pre-emp the outcome of those discussions by requiring the court to adjudicate on a particular claim, especially because the legal and other costs involved can easily exceed the amount in issue regardless of who “wins” at the end of the day. This is as true to you as it is for the Bank.

Interesting paragraph. Whats this they are saying, lets keep out of court untill we and our mates at the OFT agree that it is legal then thats an argument we can put to the judge.

Thats a true contempt for the court system and I for one hope it comes back to bite them.

[elsinore]

Agreed royboy and when they say

 

This is as true to you as it is for the Bank

 

well, no it isn't, actually.

 

Elsinore

[photoman]

"As you have read, the Bank, together with other major banks, is presently discussing the legal basis for these charges with the Office of Fair Trading. The Bank considers it unhelpful to pre-emp the outcome of those discussions by requiring the court to adjudicate on a particular claim, especially because the legal and other costs involved can easily exceed the amount in issue regardless of who “wins” at the end of the day. This is as true to you as it is for the Bank."

 

Remember, it is THEY who do not want this to go before a judge. The Incidental consequences of this (regardless of the outcome) would be a load of unwanted publicity, which would influence the Press, the Public and any decision by the OFT..........EVEN if they won.......it would mean the end of their £3.3 billion per year windfall !!

This is the OTHER costs they are reffereing to !!

[Mindzai]

Thanks for the replies!

 

I have drafted this letter which will be sent tomorrow in reply to their settlement offer:

 

Sechiari, Clark & Mitchell

Department SO

PO Box 499

Lower Ground Floor

1-5 Queens Road Quadrant

Brighton

East Sussex

BN1 3XJ

 

11th December 2006

 

Dear Sirs,

 

I am in receipt of your settlement offer dated 4th December 2006, the contents of which I have noted, in particular your defence that the charges arbitrarily imposed by the Bank were “fees” for services rendered, and not penalties imposed for breach of contract, as I have submitted to the Court.

 

In mentioning the contract between the Bank and Myself, you imply that this contract should have made me aware of the penalties that the Bank charged for their breaches of contract.

 

On 21st September 2006 I made a Subject Access Request, under the Data Protection Act 1998, in which I specifically requested a copy of the aforementioned contract. This has not been forthcoming – a matter which will shortly become the subject of yet further litigation against your Client should they not comply in full.

 

If you have had sight of this original contract, signed by me, in which I have agreed to the Bank’s regime of unfair and unlawful punitive fees, I would appreciate your forwarding a copy as a matter of courtesy. I believe that it is highly likely that the terms and conditions of this contract explicitly describe the fees as to be applied in instances of breaching those terms, and makes absolutely no reference to the provision of any service in relation to them. I am aware that this is true of the contracts of other Lloyds TSB customers.

 

Furthermore, I consider your assertion that were I to “lose” my claim in Court, my costs could “easily exceed the amount in issue” to be a blatant attempt at intimidation by supplying spurious information. As you are well aware, my claim has been allocated to the Small Claims Track and since it is my intention to represent myself, my costs should I lose would be limited to £220.00, being the cost of filing my claim and the Allocation Questionnaire.

 

Similarly, I would like to address your contention that your settlement offer is “confidential between [me], [you] and the bank”. As you are well aware there is no unilateral imposition of confidentiality in these circumstances and for you to suggest otherwise amounts to an abusive deception.

 

Any further correspondence of this nature will be forwarded to the Law Society without hesitation.

 

In relation to your offer of settlement, I regret to inform you that I am unable to accept your offer of £1447.96 as this is not the full sum owed by your Client. I have attached a current complete schedule of charges to this letter, but I will summarise this here.

 

Your Client owes £1162 in unlawfully levied charges.

 

I note your assertion that overdraft interest cannot be claimed, however I assure you that interest incurred as a direct result of your Client’s unlawful charges can indeed be claimed as had your Client acted lawfully, this interest would never have been debited. The sum of interest incurred as a direct result of your Clients unlawful actions is currently £138.23.

 

Further, you will note that my particulars of claim include contractual interest at your Client’s own unauthorised borrowing rate of 29.85% compounded from the date of each transaction until the date the claim was filed, totalling £285.11.

 

Your Client also owes interest at the rate of £1.30 per day since the date the claim was filed until such time as the matter is resolved. As of the date of this letter, this amount stands at £123.50.

 

You will also note that my particulars of claim include the reasonable costs involved in pursuing this claim, namely £18 to cover postage and stationary.

 

I can confirm that Court costs currently stand at £220 as stated in your offer.

 

Therefore, the total sum owed by your Client as of today is £1946.84. I would like to make perfectly clear that this is the full amount owed and I will not accept a settlement offer for anything less.

 

Unlike your Client I do not consider it “unhelpful to pre-empt the outcome” of the discussions between them and the OFT by claiming back my money. I am perfectly entitled, and more than willing, to present my case before a Judge should it become necessary. However as your Client has outlined their unwillingness to allow a Court to decide these matters, they will no doubt be delighted to be reminded that there are currently two further claims against them for mine and my partner’s sole accounts, for which we will also happily accept full repayment of our money as settlement. For your reference, the claim numbers are xxxx and xxxx.

 

In relation to the conditions you attempt to impose to this settlement:

 

 

1. I do not authorise any amount to be paid into any account currently held by me with your Client as I have absolutely no faith in their ability to act as my fiduciary. I would like to entrust my money to a more reputable organisation and as such will cease legal action only upon receipt of settlement in the form of a cheque made out to ‘Mr Mindzai’.
    
    
   
2. The payment will be in full and final settlement of this claim, however I reserve the right to begin legal action in order to reclaim any further sums unlawfully debited from my accounts.
    
    
   
3. If you are confident in the legitimacy of your defence, I see neither a legal necessity for a confidentiality clause, nor any reason to request one. Confidentiality is a service which I am prepared to offer, but this would be subject to a separate and negotiable fee. Until said fee is agreed upon and paid, I absolutely and completely refuse to comply with any confidentiality agreement.
    
    
   
4. I agree to no such condition, and furthermore if I do not operate my account within the agreed limits and incur more unlawful penalty charges, I will initiate further action in order to recoup them with equal vigour.
    
    
   
5. Should I again incur these fees, as previously mentioned your Client will again incur legal action against them.
   

 

I would remind you that I am bringing action against your Client, not vice versa. If they decide to settle the matter outside of Court I assure you it will be on my terms, not theirs. I find your Client’s attempt to impose confidentiality particularly disturbing. I am completely unwilling to relinquish my right to free speech and consider your Client’s attempt to enforce confidentiality incredibly arrogant. As you are well aware, they have absolutely no right to impose conditions and such boorish actions will dismissed as a matter of principle.

 

I look forward to receiving a revised offer of settlement, or in the alternative meeting you in Court on 7th February.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Mr Mindzai

[GaryH]

Ha! Stitch that Mr bloomin Thomas! Nice work Mindzai, feels good that, don't it!

[photoman]

Mindzai, I look forward to seeing you knighted one day !!!!

Spot on, with a clarity that these solicitors could learn much from.

Such utterly vain bullying attempts, to try to coerce or confuse us, to desperately win any small victory at all for their clients is sickening and bewildering.

These solicitors are merely paid minions instructed to act on behalf of corporations that have no consideration for anyone other than their greedy directors and shareholders. Surely even they can see that !!!

It wont be long before we see former employees of these firms joining our own ranks, after seeing their own familly members and friends heartlessly trodden over by their former clients ?

[chezt]

WOW!! Just amazing ... nothing to input really but just couldn't read without comment .... I haven't got a claim with Lloyds but am subscribed to your thread all the same! Good Luck ... don't think ur gonna need it tho!

[spotnot]

I truly enjoy reading your letters!! They are works of art!!

 

***Applause***

[elsinore]

Excellent letter, as usual.

 

I think I can hear Mindzai saying, like Elmer Fudd, "Now you've really made me mad!":lol:

 

Elsinore

[sweetpants]

Brilliant Mindzai your letter is a true work of art as usual

 

S.P

[crashbandicoot]

Blinking bootiful letter Mindzai! You'd think by now that they'd just shut up and pay but hey-ho, it all makes an utterly absorbing read nonetheless

[Philip Hindley]

Hi Mindzai!

 

Good luck with your claim.

 

I was a little concerned that you had quoted passages from my letter to SC&M, verbatim, before I had chance to send it to them, but as GaryH has said, the material in this forum is there to be used for everyone's benefit!

 

I will be particularly interested to see how you go on with your claim for overdraft and contractual interest.

 

regards

 

Phil.

[chloecharm]

I note that you mentioned in your letter to Lloyds that you were also including the charges to be levied at a future date. I would be interested to know if they did in fact charge these fees.

 

I sent my first letter on 24 November 2006, also including the fees to be charged on 1 December but miraculously Mr Lloyds TSB seemed to decide that he could afford not to charge them afterall.

 

My second letter is going today and I have revised the schedule of charges plus added those to be taken on 1 January 2007 but do you know if this will cause any problems as I go further down the legal route:idea:

[Mindzai]

I note that you mentioned in your letter to Lloyds that you were also including the charges to be levied at a future date. I would be interested to know if they did in fact charge these fees.

 

I sent my first letter on 24 November 2006, also including the fees to be charged on 1 December but miraculously Mr Lloyds TSB seemed to decide that he could afford not to charge them afterall.

 

My second letter is going today and I have revised the schedule of charges plus added those to be taken on 1 January 2007 but do you know if this will cause any problems as I go further down the legal route:idea:

 

I didn't include charges to be levied at a future date in the schedule of charges, only that we reserve the right to reclaim any further charges levied. There is an important distinction as you cannot ask for something in settlement which isn't included in your POC.

 

Unless I'm misunderstanding and you're referring to previous letter? Lloyds have never cancelled any charge as a result of our letters. They have only ever responded to us with complete rudeness and arrogance. If you got charges cancelled, i would say you are one of the lucky few!

 

As soon as these cases are closed we will be starting others for any further charges incurred since the claims were files. In the case of our joint account this amounts to only interest incurred due to charges (about £50) but in both of our sole accounts we have had more charges (incurred due to their own charges being debited in the first place as we havent used the accounts for months) which we will be claiming back. Although the amounts are comparitively small and the interest will more than cover them, it's a matter of principle that we want to get back everything we're entitled to.

 

We are also looking into starting a claim for the DPA non-compliance as well as submitting an estimated claim for my Credit Card. We're not quite done with Lloyds yet!

[gman7714]

Hi guys,

As with plenty of others on this forum "You Rock", I have just started my process (Gids v Tough Sh*T bank) and have been constantly reading all the threads I can - absolutely rivetting reads - I cant get enough. They have all inspired me to ensure I get whats owed to me.

 

All the best in your claim - I have subscribed to your thread so that I can follow it through to your glorious end.

 

Fantastic letters btw

 

I love this site its better than tv - even Lost!!

[redsue]

I love this site its better than tv - even Lost!!

 

yes I have to admit being slightly addicted myself - I don't know what I'm gonna do when I've finished with my banks - I won't be able to play out wiv my mates any more!!

[special_k]

Excellent excellent reading Mindzai!

 

Do you mind if I borrow from your letters when I get to that stage? I have only just sent my prelim so I am still a couple of months behind you.

 

Let us know what **** say in response to your rejection of their first offer.

 

Special K

[Mindzai]

Feel free to use whatever you like, that's why we post it

[lucid]

Hi everyone.

 

Well I arrived home from work today to find this letter on the doormat:

 

Collections Centre

Brighton BN1 4BE

 

Date: 14th December 2006

 

Dear Miss Lucid,

 

We wrote to you recently offering our assistance. You have chosen to ignore our offer of help. You therefore leave us no option but to commence recovery action and we now intend to place your accounts in the hands of the Bank’s collection agent, MHA Collections.

 

It is also our intention to register your default and payment record with a credit referencing agency. This action could negatively affect your ability to obtain credit, not only now but in the future, with other credit granters, such as, other banks, building societies, store card issuers and hire purchase providers.

 

To give you the opportunity to review your position we will hold the above action for 10 days from the date of this letter. Please use this period of time to make contact with us on the above telephone number.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Manager, Collections Centre

I'm not entirely sure what to make of this. I'm wondering if it's just another one of their automated threats letters or whether they really mean business. I wrote a letter to the Brighton Customer Recovery Centre to warn them against telephone harrassment from the Collections Centre - could this be their answer? I'm a bit stuck as to what I should do about this. I really don't want to have to phone them and spend even more money explaining something they should already know - but obviously a letter won't reach them in the time scale they've set (10 days will be Sunday). I'm quite inclined to ignore it but if this is "the real deal" then I don't want to have the debt collectors after me.

 

If anybody has any thoughts on this it would be much appreciated. I'm guessing from the way they've handled things until now this is another empty threat, but it does sound pretty serious. I'm absolutely disgusted that they can say "You have chosen to ignore our offer of help." Firstly what offer of help have they given and secondly they are the ones who have constantly ignored the many letters and telephone calls we have had to make to them.

 

Anyway, hopefully I've got nothing to worry about - but it would be good to hear from someone with a bit more knowledge.

 

Lucid

[special_k]

It seems like a standard threat letter to me.

 

As far as I know, they cannot register a default while the account in question is in dispute so it might be worth writing to them to point this out. There is a post about this somewhere but cannot remember where...sorry! Perhaps even call them then follow it up with a letter

 

KP

[lucid]

Thanks KP,

 

You might actually be referring to some of our earlier posts when this whole problem started for us.

 

We've had all of the enforcement notice and default notice threat letters for all of our accounts. Myself and Mindzai have written them quite a few letters to point out that there is a claim against them and they can't register defaults etc. The problem is, although it's against the Banking Code to register a default while the debt is in dispute, I don't think this necessarily means that they absolutely can't do it. If they do hand it over to a debt collectors then I think it would be a very hard situation to get out of.

 

I'm sure that their intentions are just to try to scare me, but in all of their previous letter they have always said things like "we may" do this and that etc. In this letter it seems much more like they're saying we are going to be doing this.

 

Lucid

[special_k]

I've had these letters before....several from Lloyds and from Abbey.

 

I did eventually get a default from Abbey for over £1k but it mysteriously disappeared within a year!

 

Even if it is passed to debt collection they will hound you for a while, you can tell them that the account is in dispute to get them off your back for a while and I'm sure that you will have settled your claim by the time they try to issue a default.

 

Alternatively, you can call up and make an arrangement with Lloyds to pay £20 a month as that's all you can afford to keep them off your backs until you can settle your claim.

 

All the best

[lucid]

Thanks special_k.

 

I absolutely refuse to pay them any money as it's entirely made up of their charges. I think I'm going to phone them in the hope that they're going to say this was sent out automatically, but usually the people there don't really know what's going on. It really angers me that I have to waste even more money re-explaining things that I shouldn't have to.

 

Anyway we haven't got long until the hearing date now, and I'm going to be very relieved once this is all over.

 

Lucid

[special_k]

I know exactly what you mean, I hate the way they are so hard on us. If we could afford it, we wouldn't get into that position in the first place, would we!?

 

To save on call costs, check out SAYNOTO0870.COM - Non-Geographical Alternative Telephone Numbers to get alternative freephone or local access phone numbers.

[crashbandicoot]

Hi Lucid,

 

It does sound like an empty threat but knowing how smarmy they can be, it can be used against you later. My thoughts would be to send them a fax saying something to the effect that 'our correspondence to you has consisted of a gazzillion letters, none of which have been responded to in a helpful manner, etc etc,' and offer to fax the lot over to them on request, should they wish to review it all AGAIN, also adding they can do all they like, and that they should be prepared to explain their retaliation actions in front of a judge, when the time comes. I'd also hint that your court bundle will include all your and their (unhelpful) letters, and that you'll let the judge decide on who has acted within reason and who hasn't. Don't know if this helps at all, but just thinking out aloud.

 

Good luck hun