Council tax and Bailiff again.

[Silverado 2011]

Hi all

 

I'm sure this has been asked loads but I thought I'd start a new thread regardless. I have read the sticky but each problem is unique so I thought I'd post mine.

 

I have some council tax arrears of £213.29 and the debt has been passed to Ross and Roberts Civil Enforcement Agents. R&R have attempted to call a few times and have added charges for each visit. They are now claiming £255.79 and have left a few letters as well (a first and second notice).

 

They knocked on the door today and wanted payment. I explained that I'm on Job seekers Allowance and wasn't able to pay them any significant amount. The gentleman asked if I wanted to start an arrangement of £60 per month, I said I wasn't able to pay that amount with my current commitments.

 

He asked me if I was able to get the money to start the arrangement, although I have no intention of entering into this arrangement I said that I'd speak to friends and family and see if I could raise the initial amount. He then gave me an envelope and said he'd call back after the weekend.

 

The letter in the envelope was an 'Enforcement Notice' stating that my files were now with the removal bailiffs and that bailiffs now have the right to enter my premises peacefully and remove goods.

 

Now obviously I'm keen to get this debt clear but can't afford anything like £60 a month. Does anyone have any words of wisdom?

Edited March 16, 2010 by Silverado 2011

[fork-it]

Was thumbing through the listing on this forum and theres something about vulnerable households and JSA claimants being exempt from enforcement. have a flick thru and you should find it.

[Silverado 2011]

Oh really? I'll have a look many thanks.

[palomino]

Did the gentleman actually enter your house? One foot across the threshold counts as entering I'm afraid.

[Silverado 2011]

Did the gentleman actually enter your house? One foot across the threshold counts as entering I'm afraid.

 

Nope never entered my property.

 

I live in a development of flats, he stood in the communal hallway area and I stood in the door way.

 

I'm angry at myself for opening the door, I was caught off guard

[hallowitch]

Template Letter to Request Account be Referred Back to Council

 

With thanks to Tomtubby

NOTE: This letter can be adapted to suit your own circumstances and could be used to advise the company that you are in receipt of income support or income based jobseekers allowance and that you wish for your arrears of Council Tax to be deducted at source from your benefits and requesting that the account is returned back to the local authority. You should provide a photocopy if possible, of either your benefit book or confirmation of your entitlement from the benefits agency.

 

—

To: Bailiff Company

Date:

Dear Sirs,

Re: Account reference.

I refer to your letter dated

(enter date)

informing me that your company have been instructed by

(enter local authority)

to enforce a warrant/liability order etc against me, in respect of arrears of council tax.

In your letter you state that you will be visiting/returning to my home to

(seize/auction etc my goods.)

unless full payment of

(enter amount)

is made by return.

The purpose of this letter is to advise your company that I am in receipt of

(income support/jobseekers allowance)

and am enclosing as proof, a copy of

(payment book/letter from benefits agency.)

I am informed that deductions can be made directly from my benefits to pay my arrears of council tax. This is provided for in the Council Tax (Deductions from Income Support) Regulations 1993.

For this reason, I would like to request that this account be referred back to

(local authority)

so that the relevant forms can be completed.

I am also aware that once deductions are in place, Regulation 52 of The Council Tax (Administration & Enforcement) Regulations 1992 expressly forbids any enforcement action.

As I have now made you aware of

(my/our)

circumstances, and provided proof, if your company continues with enforcement action, I will consider making a formal complaint about the bailiff’s conduct to the County Court

Could you please confirm safe receipt of this letter, a copy of which is being sent to my local authority.

 

 

Yours Faithfully.

[Silverado 2011]

Thanks for the letter hallowitch but unfortunately I'm already receiving a few pounds deductions for the arrears from the 07/08 year (which again is an amount of a few hundred pounds).

 

I rang the council to see if the arrears for the 08/09 year could be included in the deduction and they stated that they could 'only take on one set of arrears at a time'.

 

I'd be extremely happy if the 08/09 arrears would be deducted from my JSA but the woman I spoke to at the council was adamant the two years of arrears could not be combined.

[hallowitch]

I'd be extremely happy if the 08/09 arrears would be deducted from my JSA but the woman I spoke to at the council was adamant the two years of arrears could not be combined

 

 

I hate to say this but i think she is right

[singlemumstruggling]

jopea, hi! I am new here, i have not introduced myself as i cant find an intro board, but Im in the same situation with council rent arrears. I am a single mum ,in council flat(they make you feel like the dregs of society).I have had council debt recovery woman literally shouting at me about how bad i am owing public debt! she has demanded £15 pound a week ,or court, and wont accept my request to have it deducted from benefit, saying its too late for that!..i cant keep up with the £15 a week, its to much for me.It leaves us broke without enough food.

I am taking this further as i feel i have a right to have it deducted at a fair rate, being a vulnerable person with a medical problem made worse by all this stress.

Oh i do sympathise with you , and wish you all the best. This forum seems very good and helpful and i thank you all for being here.

[Silverado 2011]

Thanks for the post Singlemum, that was really nice of you to say. Keep strong as well, these buggers really grind you down.

 

I've had almost a year of it with redundancy. I hate not being able to make ends meet. The fear of what the postman will bring and the pang of panic when the doors knocked. Its not good for ones health!

 

I've learnt my lesson today. I'll hide behind the sofa from now on whenever the door is knocked.

Edited March 16, 2010 by Silverado 2011

[hallowitch]

jopea, hi! I am new here, i have not introduced myself as i cant find an intro board, but Im in the same situation with council rent arrears. I am a single mum ,in council flat(they make you feel like the dregs of society).I have had council debt recovery woman literally shouting at me about how bad i am owing public debt! she has demanded £15 pound a week ,or court, and wont accept my request to have it deducted from benefit, saying its too late for that!..i cant keep up with the £15 a week, its to much for me.It leaves us broke without enough food.

I am taking this further as i feel i have a right to have it deducted at a fair rate, being a vulnerable person with a medical problem made worse by all this stress.

Oh i do sympathise with you , and wish you all the best. This forum seems very good and helpful and i thank you all for being here.

Welcome to consumer action group

this link will take you to new thread starter if it doesn't work post back here and let us know

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=168

[Thegreenpimpernel]

Jopea and Singlemum...

 

Don't be so scared of court. You get sent to prison for standing there two years on the trot saying "I'm not paying tax to these ******ers, they don't empty my bin on time and spend it all on asylum seekers"

 

Round my way, magistrates have accepted as little as £5 a week from people on benefits.

 

There would be a fee for the committal hearing though.

[Silverado 2011]

Sorry for the bump but this is really playing on my mind. Is there anything I can do other than entering into this £60 a month arrangement that I cant afford?

 

Is there any chance of getting the council to take back the arrears back and pay them directly, say at £20 a month? Or is that letter in the sticky spreading the debt out over 24 months still applicable?

 

Anyone able to point me in the right direction. I'm terrifed Ross & Roberts will take my car or something if I dont get an action plan together soon.

[Thegreenpimpernel]

Jopea

 

In answer to your question - As i understand it, yes they should send you separate warning letters regarding each debt.

 

The council accepting £20 / month? You can only try and ask!

 

I see you haven't mentioned them making a list of goods or actually entering your property.

 

In that case they have no right of forced re-entry.

 

You should write to them stating that they must be confused regarding the right to re-entry. There are no seized / levied goods for them to recover.

 

Your car - yes they will take it if they have to. Get it moved !(I'm assuming they haven't levied on it?)

 

Would like to elaborate - but i must get to work, or i will be dodging bailiffs soon!!!

 

Different people with different skills / knowledge look on here at different times of day, so look back later.

[Silverado 2011]

Thanks for the answer Thegreenpimpernel, I've just got off the phone to the councils collections department. I offered them £20 a month and said that I'd be more than happy to set up a direct debit with them. The women was adamant that they dont take debts back from the Bailiffs and all I can do is negotiate with Ross and Roberts.

 

She said she will call Ross and Roberts and let them know that I'm on JSA and ask if I can pay a lower amount than the £60 originally requested by R&R per month. She did say that it was at the discretion of R&R and the council would not get involved in any form of negotiation on my behalf as they are no longer dealing with the debt.

 

Hmmm looks like I'm just gonna have to bite the bullet and pay these bullies off. I can't afford to have anything happen to the car as I need it.

 

Oh just to edit, they havent entered my home and havent a list of goods (that I'm aware of)

[Thegreenpimpernel]

Get the ladies name from the council.

 

WRITE to the bailiffs (first class today) politely stating that you have spoke to Ms XXXXX and that she would contact them approving a lower payment. Repeat your offer, or up it a little.

 

They are Ms XXX's clients. Regardless of what she says her name and opinion will carry some weight.

 

If needs be ring her back and ask her name and how her phone call to R&R went?

[Silverado 2011]

Thats brilliant, I'll do that today.

 

Further update, just spoke to Bailiff and he wouldn't budge from the £60 per month and said that was the amount that was needed to clear the charges and pay some of the arrears.

 

I replied that as far as I can tell the only charges are the £18 and the £24.50 from the previous two visits. He said that there was a £50 charge for entering into the arrangement and then monthly charges for maintaining it. At that point I lost it a bit and said why wouldn't they just play ball and accept the £20 a month and stop messing about, adding additional charges is just daylight robbery.

 

He said that they would need to do an assessment at my house to see if I really am that hard up to be only be able to afford the £20 per month. If they saw evidence of me living to a higher standard of living (he actually said if I had a 50" plasma and a playstation 3) then they wouldn't be able recommend this. I don't own either of these.

 

Obviously I'm not letting him in to do any sort of assessement so he can forget that. I'm just so miffed that he has a customer that is prepared to pay a debt at a rate that I dont consider unreasonable and neither the council or the bailiffs are having a bar of it. I'm totally fed up with this to be honest.

Edited March 17, 2010 by Silverado 2011

[ploddertom]

Thanks for the answer Thegreenpimpernel, I've just got off the phone to the councils collections department. I offered them £20 a month and said that I'd be more than happy to set up a direct debit with them. The women was adamant that they dont take debts back from the Bailiffs and all I can do is negotiate with Ross and Roberts.

 

Load of cobblers. Unfortunately you are speaking to the fodder at the foot of the chain and they have a script they are not allowed to deviate from. You need to speak to someone higher up.

 

She said she will call Ross and Roberts and let them know that I'm on JSA and ask if I can pay a lower amount than the £60 originally requested by R&R per month. She did say that it was at the discretion of R&R and the council would not get involved in any form of negotiation on my behalf as they are no longer dealing with the debt.

If they are admitting you are on JSA then they should already know they can make arrangements to have any monies deducted at source. Someone needs retraining.

 

Hmmm looks like I'm just gonna have to bite the bullet and pay these bullies off. I can't afford to have anything happen to the car as I need it.

 

Oh just to edit, they havent entered my home and havent a list of goods (that I'm aware of)

 

The way forward with the Council is to get in touch with your local Councillor(s) and explain all to him/her. Even invite them round for a chat and if necessary show them some of the injustices meted out on this site. In my opinion there is nothing preventing you trying to make contact by phone, email or in person up until 9pm in the evening. Don't forget your Councillor has direct access to those in the Council who can help.

 

PT

[ploddertom]

Thats brilliant, I'll do that today.

 

Further update, just spoke to Bailiff and he wouldn't budge from the £60 per month and said that was the amount that was needed to clear the charges and pay some of the arrears.

 

I replied that as far as I can tell the only charges are the £18 and the £24.50 from the previous two visits. He said that there was a £50 charge for entering into the arrangement and then monthly charges for maintaining it. At that point I lost it a bit and said why wouldn't they just play ball and accept the £20 a month and stop messing about, adding additional charges is just daylight robbery.

 

Ah has he also added his sucking on a lemon charge - not allowed to charge this - see below.

 

He said that they would need to do an assessment at my house to see if I really am that hard up to be only be able to afford the £20 per month. If they saw evidence of me living to a higher standard of living (he actually said if I had a 50" plasma and a playstation 3) then they wouldn't be able recommend this. I don't own either of these.

 

Keep him out he is tryihg to threaten and intimidate you.

 

Obviously I'm not letting him in to do any sort of assessement so he can forget that. I'm just so miffed that he has a customer that is prepared to pay a debt at a rate that I dont consider unreasonable and neither the council or the bailiffs are having a bar of it. I'm totally fed up with this to be honest.

 

The game now changes with you starting to take control. Send this by email & letter and adapt for your own needs.

 

"From:

My Name

My Address

 

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

 

Ref: Account No: 123456

 

Dear Sir

 

With reference to the above account. Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges including Computer Screenshot. This is not a Subject access request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. I also require the name of the attending Bailiff and the name of the Court he was Certificated at. You are obliged to provide this information.

 

I require this information within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Ripped off customer"

 

PT

[Silverado 2011]

Thanks Ploddertom, you're exactly right regarding the control thing. I DO need to take control as I feel I dont have a say at the moment.

 

Its incredibly frustrating. I'll get those letter sent today. Also balls to it, I'm going to the council office this afternoon as well. I need to speak to someone face to face.

[crockie]

Sounds to me like they are being very unreasonable and that they are attempting to fleece you

 

They are not allowed to charge you for entering into an agreement or charge you a maintenance fee. Cant think of the correct lingo at the moment (a bit mithered with a sick baby) but sounds like he is talking of a walking possesion etc. However to do this they would have to come into your home or levy on your car.

 

The route I took and I owed over £2500 was as suggested by people on here. I wrote to council and told them I will be paying them not bailiffs, wrote to bailiffs and told them that I wouldnt be paying them anything but I would pay council direct.

 

I then started making payments directly to the council via their online facility and printed off the receipts.

 

You then need to keep your doors and windows shut, move your car and watch who you answer the door to. I can't say it is much fun but eventually the bailiff should return your account to the council. The council can then look to take further recovery action but if you have made regular payments then hopefully they would agree to you continuing with this.

 

I think you mentioned that you are unemployed and if this is the case then you should be classed as vunerable under the National standards for enforcement agents. However from experience bailiffs seem to vary greatly as to how much attention they pay to these standards.

 

If you choose to pay the council direct then you need to make sure that the bailiffs definatley have not levied on anything.

[crockie]

Apologies if that is all a bit vague, I am full of cold so my brain is more than a little slow and I am mithered as my little one is also poorly

[Silverado 2011]

Thanks Crockie thats brilliant and well worth knowing. I'm fairly sure that nothings been levied as the nasty man hasn't been in my house. I have a problem hiding my car as we all have designated parking spaces with our flat number painted them. I guess I try and find a quiet side road somewhere and park it there.

 

Ideally I'd just like the debt to be collected responsibly, I've always said I have no issue repaying the arrears but I'm not agreeing to something I cant afford as from experience this will end disaster.

Edited March 17, 2010 by Silverado 2011

[crockie]

Ok as for the car, who owns it? is it on finance?

 

Both our vehicles are subject to finance, I provided details of the agreements to both the bailiffs and the council and told them that I would take immediate legal action if they levied, clamped or removed either vehicle.

 

You do need to be very careful where you leave your car in order to make sure it is safe from them.

[Silverado 2011]

Ok as for the car, who owns it? is it on finance?

 

Both our vehicles are subject to finance, I provided details of the agreements to both the bailiffs and the council and told them that I would take immediate legal action if they levied, clamped or removed either vehicle.

 

You do need to be very careful where you leave your car in order to make sure it is safe from them.

 

The car is paid in full and in my name.

 

I keep lurching from 'I'm going to fight this' to 'I just want to get this paid'. Its so exhausting, at the moment I just want the damn thing gone, its doing me in.