Bailiffs (Phoenix) and Council tax - please help.

[seanamarts]

31/7/09 Visit Fee 1 24.50 24.50 They will say they have proof they have visited

09/9/09 Visit Fee 2 18.00 18.00 as above

22/9/09 Walking Possession 12.00 12.00 They cannot charge this and a visit fee

22/9/09 Levy Fee 83.00 83.00 same as above

22/9/09 Payment by D/C 5.00 5.00

30/11/09 Broken Arrangement1 10.00 0.00 nonsense

 

If no levy was made then no levy fee can be charged, as with WPO ( I dont think they can charge for both anyway)did they write a list of items that they levied against and give you a copy signed or otherwise, if so can you let us know what these items were. Certainly never heard of a broken arrangement fee. please some one correct me if I am wrong.

[burmafriday]

HI Seanamarts

 

Thanks - sorry i was out

 

Visits - how can they prove that they've visited - that will be interesting. I was certainly totally unaware of these visits. Had I'd been, I would have been onto them from that moment!

 

No - he did not make a list of items in the house. He certainly did not give me anything to sign. Just took my payment and noted down my mobile number and left.

 

thanks/BF

[seanamarts]

They will lie until they are blue in the face that they have visited you and its basically your words against theirs. All I can see that you owe them in fees are just the two visit fees then, I would write and ask for a screen shot of your accounts and proof that they have made a visit on the days they have stated.

[burmafriday]

Hi Seanamarts

sure i'll do that- many thanks/BF

[burmafriday]

hi Rae -

 

I heard from the Bailiff and listed it in the thread -I shall be grateful if

you could take a look at it and give adviceas they made some false claims in the statement they sent me.

 

Many thanks/BF

[RaeUK]

Hi burmafriday, I completely agree with seanamarts. No levy was made so they shouldn't be charging for one! At the most the fees are first and second visit total £42.50

However, what should have happened, was that on entering your home the bailiff would have assessed that the household contained vulnerable people and the case should have been promptly returned to the council. I'd certainly let the bailiffs know of the household situation as soon as possible.

As for the council, allow a good 14 days for a response. If none have been received then chase up by letter and local councillor.

Best wishes.

Rae.

Edited March 23, 2010 by RaeUK
finger initiated keyboard error.

[burmafriday]

Hi Rae, and Seanamarts

thanks for ll your inputs. i am writing to the Council and Phoenix now per your comments

all the best/BF

[burmafriday]

Hi Everyone

 

I have now sent the letters to both the bailiffs Phoenix and copied to the Council. Please see the attachments

 

having sent these - i am just concernd if the letters seem "initimidating" ??

 

any comments please?

 

many thanks for your continued support

BF

Phoenix - Council tax6.doc

CAG council tax5doc.doc

[seanamarts]

Hi Everyone

 

I have now sent the letters to both the bailiffs Phoenix and copied to the Council. Please see the attachments

 

having sent these - i am just concernd if the letters seem "initimidating" ??

 

any comments please?

 

many thanks for your continued support

BF

sound

[RaeUK]

Hi,

 

Read through both letters. The only comment I will make is that the letter to Phoenix - in my opinion only - seems a little conflicting. On the one hand you're reminding them of the households vulnerable status and, under the National Guidelines for Enforcement Agents, the case should be returned to the council. This, in my view, is what needs to happen in your situation. But then you try to negotiate payments with the bailiff company. You can't have both. If you make arrangements with the bailiff and miss one payment through further hardship they will descend like locusts.

Whereas negotiate with the council and you will be in safer hands.

 

With regard to your personal circumstances, my apologies, I should have been more thoughtful reading your posts.

You would certainly be entitled to carers allowance. Have you applied for Disability Living Allowance for your brother? Is your Aunt getting what she's possibly entitled to via pension credits? Has your brother considered Employment Support Allowance? (The replacement of Incapacity Benefit).

There is a very good benefits forum on this site. You can find it here:

 

Benefits, Tax Credits and Minimum Wage - The Consumer Forums

 

A couple of the regular posters work for the DWP and a couple of others are involved with Welfare Rights. The info is generally good and up to date.

 

Best wishes.

Rae.

Edited March 30, 2010 by RaeUK

[burmafriday]

Hi Seanamarts, Rae

thanks for your replies. I see your point Rae - this did not occur to me. i followed the example of one of the letters in the forum. I 'll write to them and withdraw my proposal - and just stipulate that they return the debt back to the council - what do you think? - i guess i should have ran it by you first. What a dic....d..

 

thanks for the link regarding benefits etc. i'll check it out

 

All the best/BF

[RaeUK]

Don't let it worry you overly. Partly my fault as I'm currently tied up for a few days fighting battles of my own. No excuse as I see this forum as very close to my heart and important to me. I don't like to neglect it

To be honest, my gut instinct says hang fire. See what comes of it. IF the bailiffs say ok we accept you could start paying them BUT I think you also have a valid argument in which to pursue the council to take it back. That being - if you don't mind me saying - you weren't in a clear and lucid state to deal with this as efficiently as you would like given the amount of issues you are trying to handle at once. No reasonable person could be expected to handle everything 100% effectively.

Hope that makes sense!

Best wishes not only to you but also to your brother and Aunt.

Rae.

Edited March 31, 2010 by RaeUK

[RaeUK]

Do post in the benefit forum I think you both deserve and can get help for your brother and Aunt. I will certainly ask a couple of people to look at your post there and see if they can help. Least I can do.

Best wishes

Rae.

[burmafriday]

Hi Rae,

 

Thanks v very much - i'll see what response i get from the bailiff. i was just a bit worried that they might come on really heavy as a result of my letter.

 

Thanks also for pointing to the benefits - i'll check it out tmrw

 

i wish yu all the best too with your battles.

 

all the best/BF

[burmafriday]

Hi Rae, hi everyone

 

Well I got a reply from the Bailifs - that

 

"...We are proceeding for the amount claimed unless otherwise instructed by our client/London Bourough of barnet.."

 

so they are coming after me - irrespective of all the leters.

 

what next - any suggestions please

 

thanks/BF

[Thegreenpimpernel]

A suggestion. You should write back / e-mail them and say something like:

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

It is clear, given your inability to provide an inventory of goods or copy of a walking possession agreement, that i was correct in my ascertation that no such documents ever existed.

 

Consequently you will not be permitted entry to my premises under any circumstances.

 

I am willing to make an affordable monthly payment of £xx.xx towards the debt £XX.XX Liability Order + £42.50 Visit fees.

 

Yours XXXXXX

 

...or something like.

 

Others might have better ideas than me, but that's what i would do.

[Thegreenpimpernel]

I forgot to add.

 

That goes hand in hand with standard 'batten the hatches' procedure -don't answer the door to them - move the car - don't talk to them on the phone etc etc...

[ploddertom]

Ok they've been notified as have the Council but the Bailiff still has a right to enforce until told otherwise but should have handed this back on their own volition.

 

They can't be seen to act a softies so have sent the standard answer, doubt very much they will turn up knowing the Council are aware of the situation. They will try and plead ignorance of the facts. Would then make a wonderful story for the press.

 

Send a copy of their letter by email to the Council and your Councillor(s).

 

PT

[RaeUK]

Quite agree PT. The only email / letter I would send to the bailiff is to request a copy of their complaints procedure...

If I were to write to the council then it would certainly be along the lines of:

 

I have received the enclosed correspondence from your collecting contractors [abc bailiffs]. As you will appreciate, they have chosen to ignore the obvious and compelling evidence of my households vulnerable status and my personal circumstances. In light of this decision - which I am sure you will be aware is directly contrary to the National Standards for Enforcement Agents - I must urge you to review, not only my formal complaint, but also your continuing use of this particular contractor as a matter of priority.

 

Or somesuch.

Best wishes

Rae

[westgarth]

Hi

 

Pl help with this Bailiff/Council tax matter. I've spent an entire weekend reading through the threads in CAG and got a fairly good idea but feel that i need to ask those more knowledgeable on this site.

 

I am in arrears for 2007 and in Sept 2009, a Bailiff from Phoenix Recoveries visited my house. Unfortunately, my 88 year old aunt who is quite infirm and unwell - let him in as she was by the front door.

 

He threathend me with various things but wanted me to make a payment and i was able to pay him £ 255 by Debit card and he left. I signed nothing, he did not make a note of anything in the house. He then sent me a text message on my mobile asking me to make 3 monthly payments of £ 750 each.

 

Oct 2009 - I wrote to Phoenix and explained I could not make these payments. I stated in my letter that I could sell some stuff on ebay and then pay them £1000 from the proceeds at the end of Nov. 2009 but i did include a cheque for £ 50 int hat letter.

 

Then my brother collapsed with a brain haemmorrhage and was in intensive care, in a coma afer 4 operations in his head. That completely changed everything as the Neuro surgeons wrote him off and i was fighting them as well as trying to get my brother out of his coma. (We are very clse) (In addition to my brother collapsing, i also had other personal problems which i wont mention here)

 

I wrote to Phoenix at the end of Dec. 2009 apprasing them of my situation and that i ahd not been able to work (I am self employed)

 

I wrote to them at the beginning or March asking them for a break down of what i owe, but have not heard from them.

 

1) Having read the threads concerning these cases, it seems to me that my biggest problem is that my aunt let this guy in the house. What is the issue on this please -can some one advise me. My aunt is is 88 years old. She opened the door, and he just stepped in asking for me.

 

2) My aunt is partially deaf and as it was cold i guess she had no choice but to allow him to get in the house. - Can she be classed as Vulnerable? and in which case what do I do about this?

 

3) Should I write to the council (Barnet) and ask for a break down of the arrears?

 

4) and Phoenix? my letter to them simply asked what the amount outstanding was - but I see from my research on this site, that there is a more detailed letter i can write.

 

5) Also do I send a "Subject Access Request" to Phoenix?

 

6) Financially, I am seriously in dire straits at the moment and cannnot really afford much. I want to propose to either the Council or Phoenix to pay an affordable sum of around £ 20 - £ 30 per month - i think the amount outstanding is in the region of £ 2000 so this may not be acceptable to them.

 

Please let me have some ideas on how to proceed.

 

Many thanks/BF

 

Many thanks

 

you say he didnt list anything and you signed nothing, then he didnt make a walkin possession order, dont let him in if he comes back, write to the baliff and say you are aware of your rights etc.. speak to the concil and ask them to look on your baliffs account and make sure that your payment has been applied, they will also tell you what charges have been made by the baliff, it should be about £25 for a first visit which is all he has made... explain what he did to force entry past your elderly aunt and say you are going to report it to higher authorities if they do not hold the baliff off...

 

The council cannot refuse your offer to pay, it is laid down in regulations, the baliff will want as much money as he can get from you as quick as possible, try not to be too intimidated.

 

good luck

[Thegreenpimpernel]

Burma

 

My suggestion was in the pessimistic context that these people couldn't care less about your Aunts vulnerability status.

 

If Kelcou and PT's optimism pays off, then theirs is the better route to take.

[RaeUK]

Lol pimpernel, if you are genuinely vulnerable and can provide the medical support for that then you will always hold the moral highground. I think it was PT who coined the phrase 'letter tennis' [or at least used it here first]. And that's what it is. The bailiff and the council know and understand the National Standards, the key lies in getting them to understand you know it too!

Best wishes

Rae.

[burmafriday]

Hi everyone -

 

Wow - thanks for your replies - they are great.

 

sorry i was not around last night. A couple of my buddies came round, dragged me out and forced me to drink a few bevvies!!! the audacity!

 

Again, thanks for all your suggestions - I'll prepare some letters for the bailiff and the council and post them for you to read and comment on the text so i dont mess up.

 

many thanks/BF

[burmafriday]

Hi Everyone,

 

I am attaching my proposed replies to the Bailiff and the Council. Pl let me have your comments and i'll amend the letters accordingly.

 

Many thanks/BF

CAG Phoenix - Council tax7.doc

CAG - Barnet council tax6doc.doc

[RaeUK]

All major points covered, BF.

One little typo in the bailiff letter. Towards the end you manage to cheer your Aunt up as she is 'not distraught', I'm guessing that'll be 'now distraught'!

Best wishes to you all.

Rae