A guest without rights?

[pinkhalo82]

Hi,

 

I'm looking for a bit of advice. I was staying at friends for a couple of months while I looked for a job, because I couldn’t afford a place of my own. I left last week of December and asked if it was ok to leave things there (mostly packed up) while I stayed with my mom's friends while she was in the country.

 

My friends were evicted a week later. I had no idea this was going to happen. My friends tell me they never got an eviction notice, but yes they had been having issues with the estate agency. Immediately I asked when I could go pick up my things including my mothers medical documents (she's only here for medical treatment for advanced cancer)

 

They would not give us our things, though they did ask me to send copies of my passport and a list of items belonging to me. I did a quick list not detailing everything because I believed I would have access to the property.

 

To cut a long story short, the estate agency still have not given me my items. They have gone though my paper work and have even sent my mothers private medical records to my friend’s lawyer. They have included my name in complaints about my friend to his previous landlord and business acquaintances, none of whom I've ever met and are now demanding money for the removal of my items (they’ve only even agreed to give me my things only when I said I’d call the police) I don’t' money. I also made specific requests at least to give me my mother’s medical records as she is going abroad for a second opinion. They would not give them to me.

 

My friend has hired a lawyer to act on my behalf and another friend who permanently lives with me. Our names were not on the lease. I was just a guest and at the time I was only storing items there. They can not say they did not know those goods belonged to me, as I sent a list and my passport to show that they did.

 

What are my rights? I have been very distressed about the whole thing.

[comebackjimmy]

subbing

[lawdoctor]

What a load of bull go to the Police for a "second opinion"

 

Have you looked at the causes of advanced brain cancer,your lawyer that your friend hired for you "might help"

[pinkhalo82]

The police have told me, that they can only get involved if they refuse to give me my goods. Them asking me for money is a delaying tactic. My friends told me that the people who evicted them said that we could all get our items as soon as they got all the inventory was confirmed this was weeks ago.

[lawdoctor]

That lawyer is not much good, is he/she/them ?

 

Conversion civil tort or a criminal offence either way a police matter!!

[Snorkerz]

I have to throw in a slightly different slant - not advice, just a talking point.

 

There is no contract of any sort between OP and the agent. It was the friend who took responsibility for OPs property, it is not the OPs fault that the goods are not available - it is the tenants responsibility.

 

If there was genuinely no 'notice' period then it would have been illegal eviction. If this was reported to the police, then the likelyhood is that police would have made agent give keys back.

 

Something doesn't sound right.

[bedlington83]

If this was reported to the police, then the likelyhood is that police would have made agent give keys back.

Very unlikely IMHO. They're more likely to have said it's not a police matter and refuse to get involved beyond threatening the OP with arrest for breach of the peace if he tried to stop it happening.

 

I agree that something's strange though - like why is the landlord holding onto the OPs (and their friends') stuff. It does appear as though it may have been an illegal eviction but we don't know enough about what happened to be certain

[lawdoctor]

A negligent fantasy solicitor in my humble view!!

[Steve__M]

Whoever now has your goods is the one responsible for returning your goods.

 

As lawdoctor says, this is the civil tort of Wrongful Interference, governed by:

 

Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977 (c.32)

 

The civil remedy is an order for return of your goods plus any consequential damages.

 

The agency don't have a contract with you so they don't have the right to demand money.

 

I couldn't work out why this "lawyer" won't give you the medical records? Note that the medical records presumably belong to your mother, so it is your mother who needs to request them.

 

I am not a lawyer.

[NewSAHD]

 

I couldn't work out why this "lawyer" won't give you the medical records? Note that the medical records presumably belong to your mother, so it is your mother who needs to request them.

 

 

A clumsy attempt to shortly try and provide leverage in extracting monies in whatever way they can or from whoever they can..?

 

I speak from experience, as have seen something similar work, although admittedly some years back. Depriving someone of their personal effects though is, as I understand it, theft. I'm not a lawyer.

 

Steve-M and lawdoctor and others seem to be pretty much hitting the nail on the head here.

 

Personally, for whatever it's worth, I'd be looking to follow their lead, as well as considering having a suitably qualified lawyer give you good advice - as what is happening at the moment for you and your mother seems to be horribly muddied by whoever it is who is, currently, supposed to be looking out for you .

 

Hope this gets sorted pdq now.

Edited January 26, 2010 by NewSAHD

[bedlington83]

I speak from experience, as have seen something similar work, although admittedly some years back. Depriving someone of their personal effects though is, as I understand it, theft. I'm not a lawyer.

I'm not a lawyer either but as I understand it there has to be the intention of permanently depriving the owner of the property for it to be theft

[pinkhalo82]

As soon as my items were moved I saw it as theft. My friends are trying to keep me calm saying we should all just stick together. My male friend who had the tenancy agreement has now agreed to pay the removal costs on our behalf. I'm now waiting to see if my goods will appear. I fear some items which I did not declare upfront may have gone missing.

 

My friend's lawyer has told me that I and my other friend are being used at leverage by the estate agency. They seem to have a personal vendetta against my friend and know they are getting to him by using us. We've been sick with worry about it all.

[NewSAHD]

I'm not a lawyer either but as I understand it there has to be the intention of permanently depriving the owner of the property for it to be theft

 

Cheers for making it clear to the OP - permanently was the word used all those years ago too!

[NewSAHD]

I'm now waiting to see if my goods will appear. I fear some items which I did not declare upfront may have gone missing.

 

Personally, unless your lawyer, or another poster says otherwise, why wait?

 

Suggest you give your full list to the Agent now*, advising them that this is what you intend to collect, so no surprises later...

 

(*if you can - can you provide a definitive list too?)

[lawdoctor]

Permanelty, means in law,(theft law that is)for the lifetime of its value !!!!

[lawdoctor]

Theft act 1968 sec.1

[NewSAHD]

Permanelty, means in law,(theft law that is)for the lifetime of its value !!!!

 

Yes, that's as I recall it now too .

 

The story I heard was that the items in question (in the poor landlord's particular case all those years ago) related to a former tenant's ''soft" furniture, electrical equipment and so on, which were subsequently "collected" from said former tenant's new home - after the former tenant disappeared, did not give a forwarding address, but was tracked down.

 

Yet, despite the intervention of the Police over items "collected", as I heard it, there was little or no chance of a newly-happy landlord at that time later being made to feel a little less happy about depriving his former tenant of the goods.

 

By way of a little explanation, it was a ''good'' landlord, they are out there you know, initially stitched up by an unpleasant tenant, with said tenant not counting on there being equally devious minds to provide a bit of fair redress - minds (and hearts?) driven by fair play !

 

So, unpleasant tenant comes home to an empty flat, with a polite message asking them to ''sort it out". It was later, apparently, said to unpleasant tenant "yes you are welcome to collect your personnel effects at any time from..." Never heard from them again. Or so I heard, but it was a long time ago now.

 

All was well that ended well then though - and hope this works out for the OP too.

 

Yours

a weak attempt at a Ronnie Corbett

Edited January 26, 2010 by NewSAHD

[lawdoctor]

The End

[Chiro]

OK, this from a civil case back in the 80's. Yes showing my age here now.

 

A friend of mine (A) lent his TV to another friend (B), not one that I knew by the way. It went wrong & he took it somewhere to get it fixed. Then comes the big bill from person © that he is not willing to pay.

My friend asks for his TV back, then finds out it where it is. So he went asking person C for it back who was now demanding money for repair.

 

Mine friend tried the police who were reluctant to take any interest. So he took a civil action against person C. And won.

 

The court ruled that the debt was owed to person C by person B.

This being the case already recognized and the property was owned by Person A.

Person A was granted immediate access to their property.

Person C was informed to take appropriate measures against person B to recover their costs of repair.

Cost of civil case was awarded to person A leaving person C in a worse position for trying to with hold goods for payment when there was no contract between A & C.

 

I don’t think anything has changed since this case. It appears you fall into person A category where the Estate Agency are person C.

Their claim, if any, is against your friends being person B

Good news is that a court should rule in your favour, so long as you are definitely not on the contract. The estate agency will have a copy of the contract which will not include you so therefore they must return your property. As Steve M Has already said I believe. Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977 (c.32)

 

Good luck.

[pinkhalo82]

Thanks for all the info. My friend has now sent money to his lawyers to pay for the removal and storage costs of our things. my other friend and I now owe him money. I really don't understand why they feel they can charge us removal and storage when we were willing to go to get our things in the first place. Anyway we had no choice. We will be picking up everything tomorrow. I fear not everything will be there. Will find out tomorrow.

[pinkhalo82]

Thank you for all your advice.

 

Our pick up date has now been pushed back to monday. my friends don't seem to have booked the movers till today.

 

I have now found out that the estate agency has been contacting my friend's business partners, ex-landlords and friends and have included my name as some sort of illegal sub-letter. surely that's illegal??!!

 

I was a guest!