Barclaycard cca

[geordie boy1960]

Hi everyone

I currently have a couple of ongoing cases with Lloyds but I thought I would put this up as I am now fighting Barclaycard.

It’s the usual story; I fell out of work, no money, getting divorced yada yada yada.

Anyway as per my other cases I wrote to Barclaycard explaining my situation to them and offering a token payment (as advised by the cccs)

Over the last few months I have received letters telling me that I am not paying them enough. I have replied to them stating that there is no more money at this time. On the 12th November 2009 I wrote to them asking for a CCA request (using the template letter).

On the 29th December 2009 I received a letter from them (dated 27th), threatening to hand over the account to a collection agency. I wrote back to them on the 4th January 2010 stating that the account was now in dispute as they had failed to send the cca.

On the 9th January 2010 I received the following letter.

Reference: section 78 of the Credit Consumer Act 1974

I write further to the letter whereby you note non receipt of requested documents in relation to a request made under section 77/78 of the consumer credit act 1974.

I can confirm that the documents required to complete our obligation to you under section 78 of the consumer credit Act 1974 were sent to you on the 17/11/09.

With reference to the civil procedure rules (the CPR). We have provided you with sufficient information to allow you to understand our position. The CPR does not confer an automatic entitlement to documents before proceedings start. CPR 31.16 provides that a party may apply to the court for a pre-action disclosure in certain limited circumstances, which do not apply here. The application must be supported by evidence and the usual order is for the applicant to pay the costs of the application, including the respondent’s costs, together with respondent’s costs of complying with any order that is made as a result (CPR 48.1 (2)).

While there is no formal obligation on our part to provide documentation in answer to validation of debt correspondence, we have undertaken steps to provide you with the contractual terms under which your financial obligations arise and a statement of account.

I am fully satisfied that the sum outstanding by you remains legally due and payable. You should continue to repay the outstanding balance owed on your account in accordance with the terms of your credit agreement. If you do not, we may register a default against you with credit reference agencies, although we will formally notify you before doing so.

.............................................................................................................................................................

I have a few thoughts on this but any help will be gratefully received.

1 First of all, although I don’t fully understand the CPR, threats of costs don’t worry me at all so they are not onto a winner with that one.

2 No information has been supplied by Barclaycard. (I haven’t signed for anything from Barclaycard, so can they provide proof), obviously not. So they have not completed their obligations and his confirmation of sending documentation is worthless.

3 At this moment they cannot provide the cca therefore the debt is alleged, and therefore I do not have a credit agreement with them

4 The account IS IN dispute whether they like it or not so they cannot register a default.

5 Would it be worth cutting straight to the chase and applying for a Subject Access Request?

6 should I reply to there letter or ignore or send it of to the FOS:cool:

[slick132]

Hi GB,

 

Please read through some of the BC threads here, to see how others are d/w their cases. You'll learn loads.

 

A SAR is probably a good move if there are any penalty charges or mis-sold PPI on the a/c which you can reclaim.

 

BC are, IMHO, talking rubbish about their costs in a CPR 31.16 application but, as you haven't made one, this is irrelevant and shows they are just using templates.

 

If you want them to accept token payments but haven't had this arranged through CCCS, see here about a letter to send and enclose a budget palnner - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/letter-templates/146154-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

 

As regards their failure to properly respond to your CCA request, send them an Account in Dispute letter. Use post #2 from here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclaycard/167584-barclaycard-no-cca.html

 

[geordie boy1960]

many thanks

[geordie boy1960]

Hi all,

Ive just recieved a letter from Mercers debt collection agency - Default notice served, threatening enforcement if I do not make a minimum payment of £662.82 by the 25th of this month. (some chance of that)

 

I immediatly telephoned the FOS to make a complaint, stating that the account was in dispute and barclaycard could not put it into the hands of a debt collection agency. She was of the opinion that they could. I didnt see ant point in arguing the toss. The end result is a complaint form is on its way.

 

I am also going to sent off a letter to mercers letting them know that it is now with the FOS and also to telling them I will not accept callers at my door.

 

As usual any comments will be gratefully recieved.

[slick132]

Have BC supplied anything in response to your CCA request, eg their T&C's and a statement of account. If they have, the FOS may be correct about BC being able to continue with collection activity.

 

If they haven't, BC are in default of the CCA request and cannot take collection activity, nor can they instruct Mercers, Calders, etc to do so.

 

Are there any penalty charges on the a/c which you can reclaim. This will be sufficient to place the a/c in dispute as such charges are unlawful penalties.

[geordie boy1960]

As far as i am aware bc have not supplied anything relating to the account. I have not received any t&cs etc. Although they stated in the letter in my first post that they had. I am writing to them today as follows

 

Sir,

With reference to your letter of the 7th January 2010 in which you state that you sent then required documents in relation to my CCA request.

 

As I did not receive same I am afraid that the account is still in dispute. I can confirm that I did not receive nor sign for any correspondence from Barclaycard at any time in relation to this matter and would point out that you will need to provide proof of delivery in order to convince me otherwise.

 

I also note that you have passed on my details to the Mercers debt collection agency.

Under the consumer credit act 1974, you are not allowed to do this. The account is now in Dispute and cannot be enforced UNTIL such time as a copy of the executed agreement is made available.

 

A copy of this letter along with all other correspondence received from Barclaycard will now be sent to the Financial Ombudsman Service. The reference number for this complaint to the ombudsman is *******

Edited January 13, 2010 by geordie boy1960
removed double word

[slick132]

Sir,

With reference to your letter of the 7th January 2010 in which you state that you sent then required documents in relation to my CCA request.

 

As I did not receive same I am afraid that the account is still in dispute. I can confirm that I did not receive nor sign for any correspondence from Barclaycard at any time in relation to this matter and would point out that you will need to provide proof of delivery in order to convince me otherwise. No, they don't have to provide proof of posting or of delivery. They are not bothered about whether you're convinced or not.

 

I also note that you have passed on my details to the Mercers debt collection agency.

Under the consumer credit act 1974, you are not allowed to do this. The account is now in Dispute and cannot be enforced UNTIL such time as a copy of the executed agreement is made available. The can pursue the debt once they have responded properly to your CCA request. They can do this by sending T&C's and they do not have to supply you with a copy of the credit agreement.

 

A copy of this letter along with all other correspondence received from Barclaycard will now be sent to the Financial Ombudsman Service. The reference number for this complaint to the ombudsman is *******

 

Hi GeordieBoy,

 

I'm just playing Devil's Advocate above. Your letter could say something like:-

 

Dear Sir,

I refer to your letter of 7th January which said you had supplied the necessary documents in reply to my CCA request.

I must point out that there was nothing enclosed with your letter and I've received nothing since. Accordingly, you are in default of my CCA request of xxdate.

Kindly ensure that Mercers do not contact me further until you have supplied me with a copy of my credit agreement.

This matter is now being looked into by the FOS under their reference no. xxx xxx.

Yours faithfully,

 

You didn't confirm, in reply to my query above, about whether there are penalty charges on the a/c which have not yet been refunded.

[geordie boy1960]

Hi slick,

The only penalty charges I can see are a couple of late payment charges ( I sent them a token payment in time for the monthly due date) and a couple of over credit limit charges. These are due to them adding the monthly minimum payment charges.

p.s. thanks for the help with the letter

g.b.

[slick132]

The penalty charges on the a/c are another, and perhaps more valid, reason for the a/c being considered as In Dispute.

 

Keep us informed.

[geordie boy1960]

Hi all,

I recieved a letter yesterday from a company called resolvecall from Glasgow stating that they had been Instructed by Mercers to reclaim the debt. I immediatly sent them a letter telling them that the account was in dispute and Barclays should not have got Mercers involved and Mercers should not have got resolvecall involved. I also Included a copy of the "In Dispute" letter I sent to Barclaycard.

 

I have also recieved from the FOS my complaint form on this matter. I have included in my Information summary to the FOS that the account was in dispute because of the non provision of the CCA info and the fact that they had charged me for Late Payments, The payments were never late just somewhat reduced. They have also been sent copies of the letters from Mercers and resolvecall.

 

In the section of the FOS claim form where they ask what I would like Barclaycard to do, I stated that I wanted the harassment to cease and if it was barclaycards intention to take me to court then I was happy to do this but pointed out that if they did, they would have to produce the information I requested so why not save everyone involved a load of time hassle and money and just send me the info.

 

I dont expect much to happen until late in the week, i.e. reply from mercers and resolvecall along with acknowledgement from the FOS that they recieved all the info I sent them, which may take a little longer.

 

 

Just to try and pre empt a comment, I did not send the letters to mercers and resolvecall by registered mail as I wont have funds available until mid week, but if I hear nothing by the weekend registered copies will be sent.

 

 

 

 

NEVER LET THE B******S GET YOU DOWN

[slick132]

Hi GB,

 

To save on the costs of sending letters by Rec'd Del'y, take any letter to the Post Office and ask them for a Certificate of Posting which they date-stamp and it's free.

 

This serves as proof that you posted a letter, which is sufficient evidence to show they subsequently received it.

 

[Weber]

Have BC supplied anything in response to your CCA request, eg their T&C's and a statement of account. If they have, the FOS may be correct about BC being able to continue with collection activity.

 

Hi slick132,

 

I'm not going to hijack this thread, but can you clarify something for me.

 

Are your saying to the OP that Barclaycard, in supplying just Terms and Conditions, legally (or in the eyes of the FOS) meets their obligation when a request for the original signed agreement is asked for?

 

I am confused again, as I had thought I'd read that an account could be put into dispute if the original agreement wasn't supplied.

[geordie boy1960]

Thanks for the info

[slick132]

Hi Weber,

 

It has been said for ages on CAG that a bank does NOT have to supply a copy of the actual credit agreement in response to a s.78 CCA1974 Request.

 

The Manchester rulings have simply confirmed this and a bank can fulfill it's obligations imposed by CCA1974 but sending you a copy of their T&C's and a current statement of account.

 

The ramifications of the Manchester cases are being discussed here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/240186-dissecting-manchester-test-case-new-post.html but it's a lengthy thread and has descended (or risen) into technical discussions about the finer points and how it may affect debtors and creditors.

 

Discuss further on your thread if you want.

[geordie boy1960]

Hi all,

I have just recieved this letter from Barclaycard !

 

Reference section 78 0f the Credit onsumer Act 1974.

 

I write further to your recent letter alleging that we have failed to comply with our obligations in relation to your request for documents pursuant to section 78 0f the Consumer Credit Act.

 

Please note that we have already set out, in detail, why we are satisfied that the documents already provided to you have discharged out obligations under the act. We are under no legal obligation to provide any further documentation to you in this regard.

 

 

Yours Sincerely

 

Grant Lake

 

Barclaycard Customer Services.

 

Now then, since I know I havent recieve any documentation pursuant to my request and they state they have sent it, what do i do now. I have already informed the FOS of this matter. Is it just going to be the case of tit for tat letters back and forth until they decide to take me to court, which I would not mind because as ive already stated there is not any more to offer them at this time and it seems to me that the only way of getting anything from them is to go down this route

 

any thoughts gratefully recieved.

[slick132]

You could, in theory, send a letter confirming that they haven't even sent you T&C's as promised. But they'd only reply by sending T&C's which will get you nowhere !!

 

I'd wait for a response from the FOS and see what they say.

 

Ignore any DCA action, or tell them to back off while the FOS investigate.

[geordie boy1960]

UPDATE

 

Hi all,

I finally recieved a letter from Barclaycard customer relationship unit (dated 21st Jan) re my complaint of harassment. After reviewing my account they have stated that they are only able to consider monthly repayments of less than 1% (min £5.00) if they are formally approached by a nationally recognised counselling service and that I should go back to the CCCS for assisitance.

 

They also state in this letter that " I am obliged to tell you that at this stage you do not have the option to ask the Financial Ombudsman Service to review your complaint"

 

They also go onto say that "I can consider this as there final responce".

 

I then recieved a letter from them (dated 18th Jan) re my request for a copy of the CCA, stating that "we have already set out, in detail, why we are satisfied that the documents already supplied to you have discharged our obligations under the act".

 

On the 23rd jan I recieved another letter from Mercers stating that they had been unable to contact me so they will be instructing a loacal debt collector to visit me at my address to collect payment.

 

I replied with the following letter :-

 

Sir,

Reference your letter dated 22nd January 2010, you have stated that the account is still overdue and you have been unable to contact me. I find this statement very strange as YOU HAVE contacted me TWICE by letter. I also refer you to my letter to you dated 13th January 2010, in which I supplied the following information.

I must inform you that the Barclaycard account ************ was placed into Dispute on the 5th January 2010. Barclaycard representative Mr. Grant Lake is aware of this and should not have passed on the account to your office.

I have enclosed a copy of this letter for your files and remind you of your duty under the consumer credit act. Furthermore, I will only communicate to your office via written correspondence and will not allow or entertain any person calling at my address.

Now the last statement appears to be easy to understand, and as I know you do not hold any telephone numbers to contact me on it also seems pretty clear to me that communication by letter is the only way, so if you have not been able to contact me then you obviously have not tried.

On the same date (13th January) I received a letter from resolvecall of Glasgow who stated that they had been asked to act on your behalf and collect the alleged arrears.

On receipt of both letters I replied by return post informing you both of the situation and also informed you that I have passed on this complaint to the ombudsman service.

Please be advised that a copy of this letter and the letter from you will be passed on to the Ombudsman, the reference number for this is *************

On the 23rd Jan I also recieved a letter from the FOS stating that they had recieved all the paperwork I had sent them on this matter and they would respond a.s.a.p.

 

I have since sent them the other letters recieved as mentioned above so its now a waiting game to see what the FOS come up with.

[geordie boy1960]

Hi all, Just recieved a final response from barclaycard, they state that they do not recognise the account as being "in dispute" and that they have satisfied all demands in reference to my CCA request.they also go on to say that they will not correspond further but will "file" any letters from me.

 

It now looks like a waiting game as I will not send them any more letters and I will not pay them whilst the account is in dispute. Ive got to admit that im looking forward to meeting them in court.

 

Updates as they happen !!!

[DoomPriestKano]

Hi all, Just recieved a final response from barclaycard, they state that they do not recognise the account as being "in dispute" and that they have satisfied all demands in reference to my CCA request.they also go on to say that they will not correspond further but will "file" any letters from me.

 

It now looks like a waiting game as I will not send them any more letters and I will not pay them whilst the account is in dispute. Ive got to admit that im looking forward to meeting them in court.

 

Updates as they happen !!!

 

Hiya!

 

From reading your thread, the issue seems to currently be if they can prove they sent you the T&C's at all, you say they didn't and they say they did, if you know 100% that they didn't then taking you to court would be an extremely bad move on their part as the account would actually have been in dispute after 12 days of your CCA request, meaning they would be thrown out of the court for passing the debt along whilst the account is in dispute as this is against the CCA.

 

To address your token payment issue, Barclaycard tend to request at later stages (as it seems they have done in your previous post) that a third party become involved to prove your incomings and outgoings. the CCCS can provide an income and expenditure sheet or you can contact Payplan (tel: 0800716239), let them know your having financial difficulties and they can set you up with either an appointment with a specialist money advisor or if it's just this single debt your having problems with they will send you out one of their Informal Arrangements, which gives you a template letter to send and an income and expenditure sheet to verify your monthly surplus. Legally BC are obliged to accept a MINIMUM of £1 a month as long as you provide proof of your surplus being negative, Payplan can also give you a reference number that BC can place on their system to show you are trying to sort the situation out. The Informal Arrangement can also help you request that interest and charges be frozen whilst you make token payments.

 

CCCS and Payplan are both free companies, so dont worry about paying monthly fees or charges as there wont be any.

 

It's important to remember that creditors are usually happy to accept an offer of payment as long as a third party can verify your surplus, it's a "you can't get blood from a stone" situation. This is why Paypan provides a reference number so they can call and request verification of your surplus if needbe. BC send quite a lot of their clients our way who are in difficulties and i'm stumped as to why they didn't point you in their direction beforehand.

 

If in the event the creditor replies and denies the offer of payment, Payplan have a special team on hand to help you with the situation, not sure what teams CCCS have in place to deal with this eventuality as I don't work for them.

 

At the end of the day, creditors view £1+ a month to be better than a big fat £0 a month, and some of the time they make things difficult for themselves by not simply sending client the signature proof they ask for, therefore causing themselves and the debtor months of grief arguing back and forth.

 

I did a CCA request for Barclaycard and i'm still disputing it with them a year later, I did a CCA request with HSBC and within 2 days got the whole lot sent to me WITH my signature, problem solved for them, no hassle.

 

Also, Calder Financial even told me that it's EXTREMELY rare that BC take anyone to court.

 

DPK

[geordie boy1960]

Hi doompriestkano

Thanks for the input, just to clarify the situation, I did contact the CCCS and had them work out a list of creditors/amount of money left after essentials and a payment plan i.e. £1.00 per month per creditor.

Barclaycard were informed of this (including a reference number)and given a copy of all paperwork by registered mail and again when they first wrote to me saying that £1.00 was not enough.

I can say with 100% confidence that I have never received a copy of Ts and Cs or an agreement within the stated 14 + 2 days or at any time after and have repeatedly asked them to prove the sent it.

So as I have stated previously I consider the account to be in dispute and have stopped the monthly payment until this situation is resolved.

 

Cheers

[Mitch524]

GB,

Similar situation myself with BC no confirmation of CCA for my Skycard and threats of action from Mercers.

Have you looked into claiming back charges from BC ?

[geordie boy1960]

Hi Mitch,

Im waiting for the Ombudsmans decision on this before i proceed any further. It should not be long now.

[DoomPriestKano]

Hi doompriestkano

Thanks for the input, just to clarify the situation, I did contact the CCCS and had them work out a list of creditors/amount of money left after essentials and a payment plan i.e. £1.00 per month per creditor.

Barclaycard were informed of this (including a reference number)and given a copy of all paperwork by registered mail and again when they first wrote to me saying that £1.00 was not enough.

I can say with 100% confidence that I have never received a copy of Ts and Cs or an agreement within the stated 14 + 2 days or at any time after and have repeatedly asked them to prove the sent it.

So as I have stated previously I consider the account to be in dispute and have stopped the monthly payment until this situation is resolved.

 

Cheers

 

 

seems like your in a good position then, my suggestion would be to continue sending them the same "the account is in dispute" letter until they change their tone or give up alltogether

[geordie boy1960]

Hi all,

I’ve been a bit quiet for a couple of weeks while waiting for the Ombudsman to make a decision.

They have sent me a letter stating that Barclaycard could send my account to a third party whilst it was in dispute. I immediately wrote back saying that they could not as it was in dispute and I wanted to appeal their decision.

A couple of days later the representative of the Ombudsman service dealing with the case rang me at home and asked “if we supply a copy of the CCA would that be enough to settle the dispute”. I confirmed that it would provided it was a true copy and was legal.

They duly sent it to me and I can confirm that was my details and signature on the form.

Could someone out there take a look at it and advise if it is legal or not.

As usual my thanks to all!

Barclaycard :: scan0002.jpg picture by micarr_bucket - Photobucket

[slick132]

Hi GB,

 

The doc't looks to me to be enforceable as it contains the Prescribed Terms and your signature.

 

See the Guide to Credit Agreements at Link No5 in my signature.