'customised goods'? refused refund?

[paul_jw]

hello to everyone, im posting about my current problem with venture photography.

 

i purchased a set of photos, framed for my wife for christmas around three weeks ago. i bought one large photo and four smaller ones. as our house interior is mostly black (chairs etc) we decided we were going to mount the large one on the wall and the other four around it.

 

i paid up front on a mastercard and collected last week. getting the product home, the large frame was gold and the cardboard mounting inside the frame was damaged.

 

i phoned immediately (around 12 hours after collection) and talked to the person who had sold me the items, who became very agitated and explained all the money i was saving. i said it was irrelevant, and it was damaged. so i said i wanted it sorting for christmas as it was a gift.

 

she got more agitated and told me i had to speak to the shop manager. he phoned me yesterday and said a refund was impossible as it was 'customised goods', even when i then explained i now have no gift for my wife for christmas and she will be gutted, as am i.

 

he is to phone me again tomorrow but he basically said i cannot get a refund, and if i were to 'take it down that route' as he put it (i told him i would be going to citizens advice) i would have to speak to head office and they would tell me the same thing.

 

i was also just considering doing a chargeback on the mastercard for damaged goods not fit for purpose.. is this possible or am i the one in the wrong?

 

thanks in advance, im at a bit of a loss with it.

[buzby]

Irrespective of the time to Christmas - as you have the goods, a chargeback woulds be inadvisable, as it leaves you open for them to retaliate through the courts, and the defect not fixed.

 

Customised goods are always exempt from refunds (for obvious reasons), however, the goods must be of a quality expected, and if there is a blemish or other problem with the frame interna; composition, they must take the goods back and fix them. NOT to allow them to do this is unreasonable, and you need to get them to REFUSE to do this before you can make a successful claim under SOGA.

[My Real Name]

If you were returning the goods under the Distance Selling Regulations, the fact that they were might be considered "custom" might have relevance.

 

[Edit] The above only relates to goods bought at a distance - e.g. mail order, or over the internet.[/Edit]

 

However, you would be returning them under the Sale of Goods Act S.14(2), where the quality of the goods sold must be satisfactory.

 

As you paid by credit card, the credit card company are equally liable (if the amount was over £100, per the Consumer Credit Act S.75), and your best course of action might be to have them sort it out.

[paul_jw]

Ok thats superb. The item was damaged AND incorrect and i informed them immediately. I intend to phone them today.

 

What happens if i do a chargeback, do i then just return the goods to the store? What if my chargeback doesnt get 'accepted' and ive also returned the goods? can this happen?

 

the goods were most certainly not distance supplied, i went in the store to have the photographs taken, paid in the store and collected from the store. In fact, they refused to post them to avoid damage.

 

Which led to another 60 miles round trip to Glasgow in the snow.

[My Real Name]

You might ask yourself why should you go to the effort and expense of returning the goods yourself?

 

In your position, I would be tempted to have the CC company make a chargeback, and have the retailer arrange for pick up of the goods at their expense and at my convenience.

 

If you're lookin for a replacement, going yourself would make more sense, however.

[paul_jw]

Id have been happy with a replacement but i choose a refund at this stage as they say they cant do one for christmas - and we went into this telling them it was a christmas gift.

 

After seeing their customer service and standard of work i dont want any more of their products.

 

So would i phone my card issuer, say Virgin, or do i phone Mastercard?

 

Thanks for the advice, its exactly what i need.

[buzby]

I don't believer you have any opportunity of obtainig a refund (as an option). You would need specific written proof that you had a date in mind, and that they were aware of it. Whilst your plan may have been to offer it as a Xmas gift, unless this was part of your arrangement, this is not an acceptable reason.

 

I don;t believe a chargeback will be authorised. It will be marked as disputed for a few moths to allow the retailer to fix the problem, but then be reapplied.

[paul_jw]

Thats what i was thinking. The goods however are damaged/faulty - and not fit for the purpose they were bought for.

 

They are also completely incorrect compared to what i ordered.

 

They also do not have my signature on any order forms, if it matters.

[buzby]

You need to firm up what your complaint is. No weave into whatever argument you think may have greater sympathy.

 

The goods were either;

 

1) Faulty, or

2) Incorrect and not as ordered

 

In the first instance, you have no right of rejection, only a re-working to provide what was ordered. If the second, then your right of rejection is absolute, and you should return it immediately asking for your return costs to be reimbursed.

[paul_jw]

No i understand and the fact that they are not ready for christmas is an inconvenience.

 

They are both of the above.

 

1) They are incorrect and not as ordered

2) They are damaged at the same time.

 

I suppose 1) cancels out 2) as i dont really care that they are damaged; they are incorrect from the start.

 

If it had been say £10 i would have just put up with it. This is £500.

 

I have asked for the refund and have been told no.

[buzby]

But as the goods are incorrect, the fact they are damaged is irrelevant. You MUST get what you paid for. You would not be entitled to a refund if the goods were specially made to your instructions, and you have these to point out what is wrong (colour, size, orientation or whatever).

 

Your complaint is not that there is damage, but it is not what you ordered. You require them to provide what you asked for - within 28 days is reasonable - OR your money back. If they need the item back to assess or re-work, then get it to them ASAP. You can ask for the cost of returning to be repaid to you due to their error.

 

What you cxannot expect is for them to simply give you your money back for an item specially made for you, unless you can prove negligence on their part in processing the order and their refusal to rectify the error(s) once you bring it to their attention.

[paul_jw]

So their refusal to refund is acceptable you would say?

[buzby]

Without an offer to rectify the problem, then their stance is unreasonable. Faced with a customer woh had recieved an order that was paid for then delivered, if I was first told there was damage, THEN later told the items wasn;t what was ordered, I'd immediately suspect that the customer was trying it on. As it appears the arguments are about-face, and we haven't heard what opportunity the supplier has suggested in order to satisfly the order to your liking, it just comes across as wanting a refund and no other solution will do.

 

If that is the case, then their refusal to provide a refund would be acceptable, for bespoke goods.

[Kraken1]

What you cannot expect is for them to simply give you your money back for an item specially made for you, unless you can prove negligence on their part in processing the order and their refusal to rectify the error(s) once you bring it to their attention.

 

Why not? Why does soga not apply?

[paul_jw]

Thats what i was thinking..

 

The damage is inside the frame too which is sealed. You can just see it behind the glass so im not at it. Irrelevant anyway..

[buzby]

Why not? Why does soga not apply?

 

No. See messaage # 2.

 

Customised goods (eg 'bespoke') are explicitly not covered.

[kiptower]

going by the first post he ordered BLACK and they came back GOLD

 

clear case of not as described, or as ordered, ( colour is wrong ) regardless if made to order, and as per the SOGA act he has the right to refund or replaced ,

[buzby]

Thats what i was thinking..

 

The damage is inside the frame too which is sealed. You can just see it behind the glass so im not at it. Irrelevant anyway..

 

 

If it isnt what you ordered - why is the damage even an issue? If NOT what you expected, your damage issue is irrelevant. Also, you've not explained what they proposed to do - only say they'll not provide a refund.

 

What is the full story?

[paul_jw]

No. See messaage # 2.

 

Customised goods (eg 'bespoke') are explicitly not covered.

 

From what I read from the SOGA this only applies to distance bought goods.

 

going by the first post he ordered BLACK and they came back GOLD

 

clear case of not as described, or as ordered, ( colour is wrong ) regardless if made to order, and as per the SOGA act he has the right to refund or replaced ,

 

Yes.

 

If it isnt what you ordered - why is the damage even an issue? If NOT what you expected, your damage issue is irrelevant. Also, you've not explained what they proposed to do - only say they'll not provide a refund.

 

What is the full story?

 

Ive already told you its irrelevant in post #10. It just demonstrates that even IF they managed to get the item correct it would still be damaged.

 

They will replace but will take too long for my liking, up to 4 weeks. I've paid my money (a lot of money), had a bad experience with their customer service, their professionalism and the ability to get simple things correct and as above just want a refund and move on to a more professional company.

[buzby]

There's little point selecting the answers you prefer. Kiptower is incorrect in his interpretation. If there was an issue over the framing material bought directly, then SOGA would apply, however if this is subsequently fashioned into a new product, then it becomes a bespoke item and the same as any 'made to measure' product.

 

Providing they have offereed to make good their error, that's their obligation. The fact you are not getting it for Xmas is a shame, but irrelevant to your demands for a refund, you cannot arbitrarily remove their right to make amends because you've 'lost confidence'. If they subsequently fail, you will have a case, but as you're not giving them that opportunity your stance is unreasonable - especially as NOBODY is going to be in a position yo provide it for Christmas anyway (at this late stage).

 

Any action you take peior to their attempt to meet your needs would be taken as being vexatious by a court, and if it comes to that, you'll probably lose. What have you got to lose by letting them make good their error?

[Zamzara]

Buzby, where did you get the information in your first response that "customised goods are always exempt from refunds"? I've never heard of this applying where goods are non-complaint with the contract, only to distance selling (i.e. non-faulty).

[paul_jw]

How can i not accept the interpretation i prefer when i two contradictory viewpoints? The one you are saying is incorrect actually has a reference too, from the SOGA.

 

Please can you site where your view is laid down, for my records, so i can make an educated decision as to what to do.

 

I have already explained to you buzby, twice, that I'm not happy with Venture full stop after this debacle. That is the reason I don't want anything more to do with them and will take my business elsewhere.

 

If they had done the job correctly in the first place, i would have had this item in time for Christmas - the order was placed around the 21st of November. Because they couldn't be bothered to to the job correctly, failed to QA the order, did it wrong from the start, whatever - I now have to explain to my wife she doesn't have a Christmas present which i appreciate has no grounds for complaint with them, as you have already mentioned it was only verbally agreed - but it has injected enough spite in me to not want to line their pockets anymore.

 

Offtopic anyway - can i get a refund or not? If i can, what can i quote?

[buzby]

Custom made products have always been exempt. I did a web search and got over 100 resources all giving the same advice - here's one at random'

 

Consumer Rights for Christmas Shoppers

[paul_jw]

That quoted URL shows you are wrong.

 

Do I have any rights if I buy from the internet?

Yes. You actually have additional rights when you buy a gift from an internet retailer. You have a ‘cooling off’ period of seven days, unless the gift is custom made, during which any order can be cancelled or returned without any reason being given and they must give you a full refund.

 

This relates to distance selling, over the internet. As do the 14 more i have found.

[buzby]

If they fail to rectify the problem, you can seek a refund, but you MUST give them the opportunity to resolve the error.

 

If you have nothing in writing that stated your explicit requirements, in that they interpreted these instructions incorrectly, they must be given the opportunity of making amends.