Orange - missold a phone and POOR customer service

[gsandhu]

My problems started when I upgraded to a Blackberry 8900. My main requirement was that I wanted a 3G handset with email capability and the lady in upgrades advised me that the Blackberry 8900 was a 3G phone. Once I received the Blackberry 8900 I called the registration team to swap my sim card over, and they also advised me that the phone and sim card were 3G. I am disappointed that I have been mis-sold this handset as being a 3G phone and this is not what I requested.

 

After a couple of weeks of use I noticed that I was continually having signal issues that I previously never had and was getting error messages saying "sim card not allowed". I called Orange a few times and they kept saying that there are masts down in my area. This has been a problem since I moved to this address 5 years ago so was not the cause of my issues. They also keep telling me that I am in a 3G hole according to your systems. However when I upgraded there was no hole and the Orange coverage checker shows I should have Excellent to Very Good reception. Link below.. two systems seem to be suggesting totally opposite things, but in reality on a day to day basis I actually receive better reception at this post code on a 3G phone.

 

Orange coverage checker

 

After numerous calls to customer service agents I was getting no where so asked the call to be escalated to a manager, then it was escalated to a operations manager who was very helpful and tried to fix my problems. He told me that this handset is actually a 2G handset and also told me my sim card was only a 2G . During this call my phone had been diagnosed as being faulty and as it was out of stock he offered me a different model as a replacement. He was offering me the Blackberry Bold, which I didn't really want as it was a big chunky handset. He therefore decided to send me out a new sim card which was to rectify my "sim card not allowed" problems. The new sim card was also only a 2G card.

 

On 15/10/09 handset as faulty but I didn't take the replacement as ideally I was waiting for it to be out of stock so I could be offered a 3G handset which I should have had in the first place. I called again on the 23/10/09 then again on 26/10/09 and again on 02/11/09 and again no one could transfer me to a manager so I decided to take a replacement Blackberry 8900 as he said the handsets faulty and a replacement might solve the problems instead of waiting for it to be out of stock.

 

This replacement handset is still giving me sim card problems and also freezes alot of the time and the trackball doesn't work properly. I called in again on 04/11/09 some diagnostics and said this handset is also faulty. She said that she will put it on hold for me as I do not want another 8900 as it does not resolve my issue of being missold this phone. She could not get hold of a manager either and told me to call back as apparently orange don't have the facility to leave anyone a message? She also said to me that if the handset is not faulty I will be charged for it. I found this to be an inappropriate comment also as she and her diagnostics system said that the handset is faulty.

 

When speaking to customer service agents they all were also telling me that Blackberry 8900 is a 3G handset as it has email capability and because of its functionality. Even when I called back again 05/11/09 she also said that it is a 3G handset. Theres seems to be some sort of confusion amongst your staff there as they all seem to think that all Blackberrys are 3G as they are new handsets. Its easy to see how the lady in upgrades was also mislead thinking it was a 3G as everyone I've spoken to thinks the same to at Orange. They asked me what I require 3G for and I said to browse the Internet and email. She said that this is what this handset is designed to do and it doesn't matter if it is 2G or 3G. Surely there is a big difference between the networks otherwise there wouldn't be the choice. I asked for this call to be escalated as by this time I was getting quite frustrated by non of the staff being able to deal with my request and she said no one is available. She said a manager will call me within the hour but no one has called back.

 

Orange has left me very disappointed as it has missold me this phone by telling me I was getting a 3G phone. I feel I have exhausted all avenues through Customer Service

I have been cheated into signing a new contract which has me tied in until 18th December 2010 before I can upgrade again and feel strongly against this as I have been sold a handset which does not serve its purpose. It is not a difficult thing to rectify so I don't understand why customer services are making such a big issue out of this. If things can not be resolved I would like my contract to be cancelled so I can take my number to a network who can provide me with what I want.

I emailed a complaint to executive.office@orange-ftgroup.com and copied in cutomerservices@orange-ftgroup.com. All I received back was an email telling me to go through the escalation process. I sent them an email to say I have followed this as I have spoken to a manager and an operations manager. They just sent another reply saying call 150 and speak to customer service. Does no one read the emails there? Poor communications for a communications company!

I called back again today and no one could transfer me to a manager again. Nor to their manager or to a list of extension numbers i gave them as no one was logged in again.

When the phone is out of stock Orange send a different model out anyway, so what with the big deal about sending me out a 3g model as I was meant to have been sold in the first place?

What does anyone suggest I do next? Show I contact OFCOM?

[locutus]

You've seen this that I posted in another orange thread right?

 

http://www1.orange.co.uk/documents/r...f_practice.pdf

 

That is their "code of practice" and shows their procedures for complaining. Ofcom won't listen to a customer complaint (unless it's something that effects a high proportion of customers) instead they made all telecom providers sign up to an ADR (alternative dispute resolution) Orange is with CISAS. Get Orange to either send you a "deadlock" letter or if 8 weeks has passed since you 1st complained you can escalate your complaint. Read more here :-

CISAS

[buzby]

I have to ask - if you Decide on a Blackberry, you are buying into their SERVICE and facilities, the requirement for 3G is of no material interest to the service provided. The device is used primarily as a portable Mail Exchange terminal - and will work irrespective of whether it is 3G or not.

 

If you wanted 3G (ie 'faster data') there are MUCH better phones around that make the fullest use of it, but the BB isn;t one of them as it isn;t a multimedia handset in the accepted sense.

[gsandhu]

Loctus - thanks for the CISAS link. I have been complaining for around 3 months now so will submit an application to them on monday morning.

I had a look at the code of practice when orange sent it to me in the standard reply the exec office sent to me.

 

Buzby - the upgrades department told me the 8900 is a 3G multimedia handset and thats why I went for it. I have no problems with the blackberry services side of it, but my requirement for 3G was because I virtually have no 2G reception where I live and get just about a couple of bars on 3g. Orange keep telling me masts are down, but they have been down for about 5 years now. I have just had an operation and am house bound for 4 months so reception is important for me during this period.

 

I called Orange again and they still couldn't transfer me to a manager again as they are still not logged in. Instead I was told I can buy my way out of my contract for over £400. I don't see why I should have to as its oranges mistake that they sold me the wrong phone in the first place.

Previously managers have said if the 8900 is out of stock they will send me a 3G handset so I don't understand why they don't just rectify their mistake and send me one out now? They are making a big issue out of it for no reason apart from some CSA's being akward.

 

My main issue with Orange is that they missold me a handset and I expect them to rectify this. They sold me a 2G phone telling me its a 3G. Its like going to buy a car and ordering a diesel and the garage delivering you a petrol car.

[buzby]

Some background - Orange started with 2G and most (all?) of their BTS were were 3G enabled. So, if there is 3G coverage there will invariably be 2G, but not always the other way around.

 

I have my Sony Ericsson W810 handset that was described in Orange's monthy MAGAZINE with a "3G£ Logo on it. I bought 4 of them for the family. None of these handsets were 3G capable, and the description was 'in error' and they apologised. Which is as good as it gets I'm afraid.

 

You are entitled to phone service - which is what your contract specifies. The customer therefore cannot state he requires to use 3G instead of 2G - if your issue is coverage, then your argument is that they cannot provide service, NOT that the phone isn;t using the UMTS band. (Which would be a SOGA complaint).

[gsandhu]

Spoke to a manager at Orange a couple of days ago and they acknowledged their mistake and decided to "alter" the dates of my contract to allow me to upgrade to an iPhone 3GS. I was only in month 4 of a 18 month contract (plus 3 months as I upgraded 3 months before end of last contract).

 

Luckily they were launching the iPhone the next day so I was able to get that. I now DO have reception so everythings good.

 

Also I spoke to CISAS and they said they couldn't do anything as its a handset issue and they don't deal with them??

 

Buzby - if you had bought 4 handsets you should have busted their chops a but harder as just an apology isn't good enough.

 

Thanks for your help guys.

[locutus]

Spoke to a manager at Orange a couple of days ago and they acknowledged their mistake and decided to "alter" the dates of my contract to allow me to upgrade to an iPhone 3GS. I was only in month 4 of a 18 month contract (plus 3 months as I upgraded 3 months before end of last contract).

 

Luckily they were launching the iPhone the next day so I was able to get that. I now DO have reception so everythings good.

 

Also I spoke to CISAS and they said they couldn't do anything as its a handset issue and they don't deal with them??

 

Buzby - if you had bought 4 handsets you should have busted their chops a but harder as just an apology isn't good enough.

 

Thanks for your help guys.

CISAS don't handle problems with handsets but they do handle mis-selling which was the crux of your complaint. Anyhow, thanks for the update, and nice result! I'm sure you can get a good deal on ebay for the Blackberry Bold! :lol:

[jacktheband]

Did they not ask for you to return the Bold? In my experience, usually when agreements such as being allowed to re-upgrade very early into a contract, the networks wants the existing equipment sent back to them minimise their loss.

[buzby]

The reaosn why the phones didn't go back was because in eery other respect why were exactly what we wanted - indeed they've been perhaps the most long lasting and reliable handsets we've had in the last 10 years! So they weren't 3G, the difference in cost of data transfer isn't an issue as they charge the same per Mb whether using 2G or 3G, so because the 3G 'flash' was erroneously showing on their catalogue, it was annoying, but not something I feel cheated over - it still did everything else and did it well!

Edited November 13, 2009 by buzby

[gsandhu]

Yup they want the Blackberry back, so have to put that in the post to them. It doesn't work properly so not much use to me anyway.