Where do I go from here..

[MATTYFEZ]

Ahh sorry, my mistake for reading too quick - so she has company pay slips. good, keep all emails/letters!

 

Well what a pigs ear they have made out of this then, heheh! the above letter is pure gold.

"How can I know what our obligations are without a contract. Payments are only evidence of what our arrangements are . There is at present no signed contract on file"

If the company is having a crisis it may explain the strange relpies, however, it is simply not your problem. Based on the above letter I would be more inclined to think they are trying it on.

 

How big is the company, I would guess it is fairly small?

 

How did your call to ACAS go?

[mz_pink]

OK, quick update...

 

Yesterday after I reveived a response from x stating she was on hols for a further week and back in office next monday I sent the email requesting the access to information as I mentioned before and have yet to receive a reply, lets see what Monday brings.

 

I then contacted ACAS last night and to be honest was not impressed with the girl I spoke to. She said that they wouldnt represent me at a tribunal as they do not provide that service but they do offer conciliation services. She has past my details to a conciliator and I must await contact from them.

 

Have really got a bee in my bonnet about this one.

 

Have applied for income support but dont think I will receive too much due to getting 50 quid per week from CSA which is also sporadic.

 

AHhh so the saga continues...

[teaboy2]

Dont worry Acas dont give representation at tribunal hearings themselves. Sorry if i had inclined they did. But the people at CAB do, so when you see them get them involved so theyll work alongside acas for you. it'll be the representative form CAB that deals with Employment issues that will represent you at tribunal. But acas have an arbitration scheme where it is similer to a tribunal hearing but both sides need to sign up to it, but what you would get out of it may be less then you would get if you went to tribunal. So lets see what happens but make sure you get the employment advisor at CAB when you go there involved if it has not already been sorted out.

 

Glad to see you applied for income support and even if you not get full amount just getting any would certainly help tie you over for the moment. Also what about tax credits do you get that? cos you can get upto £50 a week in working tax credit.

[mz_pink]

Sorry Teaboy, all of these issues and the process of it all are making my head spin trying to keep up with all of this EXCELLENT advice.

I have informed the Tax credit people and they have put a hold on my working tax credits for the moment until it is decided if I am employed or not to avoid overpayment

I should have kept my mouth shut and waited til it was sorted until I approached them about my situation.

DO you know if I can lodge a claim with the ET on my own just now until I have my appointment with CAB on Nov2nd and then for them to represent me and correct any bits and peices I have already lodged with the ET?

[teaboy2]

yes you can start taking tribunal action yourself by using the forms and advice and guides that are availble on the website Employment Tribunal > Forms & Guidance

 

Though it is a complicated process to some, so my advice would be wait till you see CAB. i know your in a difficult situation because of whats happened. but its less then 2 weeks till u see CAB, and its not likely to get a result any quicker by doing it yourself, especially if you make an error in your application for a claim to tribunal. so you would be better off to let the employment advisor put the claim in for you. but if you feel comfortable starting your application to the tribunal after reading the advice and guides given on the website then its upto u if you go for it or not. but you probably be best phoning then first using the details in the contact us page off their website.

 

its a bugger about the tax credits as yes it might prevent over payment but it doesnt do anything to help u now, just adds to it. so fingers crossed u get income support.

[cynic09]

You CAN possibly claim unlawful deductions from wages at the ET dependant on what your contract says. You can't yet claim on any kind of termination tho.

I wouldn't worry about that lawyer comment too much. At least until you beg the tribunals indulgence, since you aren't unlike your learned opponent.

Bloody funny watching them get out of that

[mz_pink]

Thanks teaboy. Going to give a call re Income support tomorrow to find out how thats going,

 

Have an interview tomorrow for some nationally known storage company and the manager I spoke to when he offered the interview 'seemed' lovely so I hope that goes well. Had a rubbish experience today with a recruitment agency and duped into doing door to door sales as an observation day! meh..not going with that agency again !

 

However I have already part filled in the ET online form and will give them a phonetomorrow for advice. will print it off and hand it in to cab to see if the advisor can go over it before our appt.

 

Many thanks to you all....x

[teaboy2]

good look for tomorrows interview Mz_pink i hope it goes well. hope you get paid for attending the observation day otherwised id have told them to **** off in polite terms lol.

 

let us know how it goes.

[mz_pink]

A quickie before I head off to bed...here is what I think I should be claiming for

 

SSP which was unpaid for Sept 2008= 316

Contractual Sick Pay less the SSP paid for 13 weeks from 2008=2500

Last SMP payment for Sept 2009=468

Contractual Holiday pay for holidays accrued whilst on maternity leave 30 days = 1500

loss of earnings whilst trying to find new employment= 2x months = 2000

compensation for hurt feelings and work related stress =1000 total 7000

 

1)Failure to provide awritten statement or adequate pay statement

2)Failure to provide a written statement of reasons for dismissal or the contents of the statement are disputed

3)Suffered a detriment and/or dismissal on grounds of preg, child birth or maternity.

4)Unfair dismissal after excercising or claiming statutory rights

5)Failure of employer to pay or unauthorised deductions have been made

6)Complaint by worker that employer failed to allow them to take or to pay them for statutory leave entitlement.

 

Should I include all of these claims for the time being? Do you think that these are the offences that have been commited?

 

As for her being a 'lawyer'. Decided not to let this intimidate me as I feel if she had the slight inclination that her position as a 'lawyer' was going to be in jeopardy then this would have all been sorted by now. She is definately at it!

[mz_pink]

good look for tomorrows interview Mz_pink i hope it goes well. hope you get paid for attending the observation day otherwised id have told them to **** off in polite terms lol.

 

let us know how it goes.

 

 

lol I didnt get paid as after 'observing' one customer approach I did tell them thank you very much but this was not the sort of interview I had been advised I was having! puuulllease, I know I am desperate but making sales for a company for free whilst in an observation and voluntary position, nah no thanks, they can do their own donkey work lol

[teaboy2]

lol to right! charity begins at home, not on some strangers doorstep for some **** that not evening paying you for being there lol

 

regarding what you put in your claim. it all looks pretty sound to me but u should beable to make adjustments when and if you need to prior to the tribunal hearing.

[mz_pink]

Cheers. Now I am popping off to bed and leaving my probs at the bedroom door. They will still be there tomorrow but tomorrow is one day closer to me getting 1) a new job and 2) taking her all the way!

Night night

[teaboy2]

now thats exactly how you should think, keep it positive. sweet dreams

[cynic09]

If You are claiming any kind of dismissal it's likely to drag out the process as there will have to be a pre hearing to establish your employment status.

Complaining to the ET regarding your various rights being denied does not preclude raising a second complaint regarding dismissal. You could of course argue that the various contractual breaches constitute constructive dismissal however they are far harder to win.

Thanks to our new gov legislation you have to raise all these points as grievances with your employer first or run the risk of having any tribunal award reduced.

It's probably worth seeking out a local employment law lawyer and talking it through before committing to all six points.

It would be a simple defence for your employer to deny unfair dismissal as you haven't been dismissed IMO

[mz_pink]

Morning All,

Hope we are all going to enjoy the weekend.

Quick update...might be able to get free legal representation through household insurance..awaiting to find out if i can insruct a local employment specialist solicitor or if i have to use their desegnated solicitor. The case has to have a more than 51% chance of winning if Im to be represented either way.

The ACAS conciliator contacted me but i missed his call and he is now on hols til next tues.

I have gone through all emails back and forth and there are 105 seperate emails from Aug last year refferring to late ssp, late smp, pay dates and informing them throughout my preg of illnesses appts etc. Also made about 10 seperate requests for a contract and statement of earnings etc. So cannot see where they could dispute my employment with them.

As there is going to have to be some enquiry into obtaining a decision on me still being employed or not i think i will leave out the constructive dismissal claim as there has not been any kind of dismissal or resignation.

They will be forced into making that decision once there is an ET hearing.I can then take it from there.

Oh this post is all over the place ...

My thoughts on what Im going to do is lodge my claim form with the ET, then whilst that is getting assessed I will be finding out where I am regarding being covered for legal expenses for the appointed solicitor and if that fails I have the appt with CAB on 2nd Nov.

The points I want to raise with the ET are..

1)Failure to provide a written statement or adequate pay statement

2)Suffered a detriment and/or dismissal on grounds of preg, child birth or maternity.

3)Failure of employer to pay or unauthorised deductions have been made

4)Complaint by worker that employer failed to allow them to take or to pay them for statutory leave entitlement.

for the time being.

I can then deal with the unfair/constructive dismissal claims if and when they should arise from the prompting the above should produce.

 

It does seem that x was/is a lawyer and that xx has been suspended or otherwise not in the office.

From my last visit to the office business does seem to be going very well considering the amount of new staff compared with this time last year I would guess the employee count has doubled if not trebled.

 

IR still have no reply regarding tax i should have paid and not very helpful as 'they have a backlog that could take some time to work through'. Blah blah.

Anyway way thats all for now, thank you all for your help and direction.

 

[cynic09]

Sorry to be a bit of a wet blanket here but:

If you don't have a copy of your contract, you can't support the assertion that you are contractually entitled to 13 weeks full pay during sickness.

Possession of emails from you to them, establish far less than emails from THEM to you. Ideally an email two way conversation.

On a more positive note, if you received SMP from them that would be accepted as an indication that you were an employee.

I'd suggest that you put all your points in a letter to the MD of the company, asking for clarification on your status and return date, send it by recorded delivery. Prior to filing an ET claim.

I had occasion to defend an ET claim in similar circumstances thanks to a bolloxed TUPE transfer. While its very easy for an aggrieved employee to believe the ET will punish an employer for perceived wrong doing, that isn't the function of the ET. They will however ensure that you are paid any monies you are entitled to under the various employment laws.

From what you have posted it is entirely possible that the suspended director has caused most of the issues and that these are administration issues that could be ironed out perhaps via acas.

[mz_pink]

Hi Cynic,

 

Not a wet blanket at all. I value all opinions.

I was given a signed contract by the suspended director. Signed by and on behalf of the company.

[mz_pink]

Its also the original..I kept that and allowed the company to copy it in my presence so as they couldnt switch papers or anything dodgy.

[mz_pink]

Sorry to be posting left right and centre... I do have two way conversations by email, most of them detailing finalisations of my SMP and requests with answers about payments being late.

The MD is the one querying my employments status, I have already sent an email and had an informal chat at the officce regarding her position in finding out her position in relation to employing me.

[cynic09]

Sorry to be posting left right and centre... I do have two way conversations by email, most of them detailing finalisations of my SMP and requests with answers about payments being late.

The MD is the one querying my employments status, I have already sent an email and had an informal chat at the officce regarding her position in finding out her position in relation to employing me.

 

The MD doesn't know the status of an employee? I don't think that would go down too well at an ET. The MD is supposed to be the boss after all, difficult to appeal over his head..

If you were paid SMP and you have confirmations of it via email, then you are employed. whether or not under the contract you were given could be open to debate, dependant on the fraud issue, equally this could have some baring on your various payments as well, however you can't be held to account for the conduct of a company director.

I'd be inclined to pursue the payments and unlawful deductions angle with the ET in that case. I wouldn't include any dismissal since there apparently hasn't been one

[mz_pink]

I know! The MD had put over all staffing issues to be dealt with the suspended director, Since he has been suspended, i then directed my grievance which was first raised with the (unknown to me at the time) suspended director.

To clarify Greivance about pay issues etc was raised to ex/director..ignored, so approached MD, who happens to be the comp Sec also, griev was raised and she told me that as she didnt deal with staffing issues and that my contract was diff to everyone elses, that she didnt have a clue about whether im employed or not.

 

This was an email I receievd frm the suspended director in reply to requesting contract and start back dates..these are all from company emails..

 

Hi there x – it is oversights but xy has them all. Im not sure when your maternity does end but it would be good to work through with you what and when etc. Of course there is a job here for you and, although the business has changed a lot since you were here, you will fit in just fine.

I have asked xy to see if you are free sometime to go through the contract etc and just make sure that it covers everything that you need.

Best

x

From: Sent: 20 June 2009 14:58

To: Subject: Fw: Wages and P60

 

 

 

Hi,

 

 

 

Please see the email below which I have not received a reply to.

 

Today I also received another letter from the TaxCredits and I now have until 31st July to give them my earnings total for last year. I need my p60 in order to do this or my tax credits are going to be stopped.

 

I have spoken to the tax office about this and they have asked me to remind you that you have a legal obligation to have provided me with this by 31st May. We are now 3 weeks past this date.

 

 

 

I have spoken with ACAS and have been told that you are now in breach of employment law by withholding my p60 as well as my contract which I have been asking for since I started my employment. This should have been provided within 2 weeks of me requesting it. The verbal contract I have recieved regarding my pay and the email which x had sent me stated that I would receive my wages monthly and on the last Thurs of each month, this has rarely been the case and in some cases has been up to 4 weeks late, which is breaching your contract with me.

 

 

 

The tax office have suggested I call their fraud investigation team and I really do not want to take it down this route.

 

 

 

I have asked if you would prefer me to arrabge a meeting with you to discuss this but you did not reply. Is there a problem that I should be made aware of?

 

 

 

I was really hoping to return to company after my maternity leave ends as I love the job but it feels as if things are being made difficult for me so that I feel I cannot come back which is why I have felt too uncomfortable to come down to the office with the baby to see you all. I really hope this is not the case and that there has just been a series of oversights to my requests and wage dates.

 

 

 

Kind regards

 

 

 

[cynic09]

It is entirely possible to have 20 employees all on different contracts. That is irrelevant.There is no legal compunction for contracts to be identical.

If a business pays you SMP it is pretty certain they do so because they consider you to be an employee. It would be virtually impossible to argue otherwise.

If you were an employee when you received SMP, then you still are, unless your company has evidence to the contrary.

Personally I cant begin to understand why a lawyer/company director sees any complication in this.

What you were paid or not paid I can understand the possibility of lost/ falsified records etc

Your MD may tell you she doesn't deal with staffing issues but I think the ET may educate her on this point.

[mz_pink]

It is entirely possible to have 20 employees all on different contracts. That is irrelevant.There is no legal compunction for contracts to be identical.

If a business pays you SMP it is pretty certain they do so because they consider you to be an employee. It would be virtually impossible to argue otherwise.

If you were an employee when you received SMP, then you still are, unless your company has evidence to the contrary.

Personally I cant begin to understand why a lawyer/company director sees any complication in this.

What you were paid or not paid I can understand the possibility of lost/ falsified records etc

Your MD may tell you she doesn't deal with staffing issues but I think the ET may educate her on this point.

 

Hi Cynic,

 

I maybe totally wrong but I get the strong feeling that she is hacked off that I fell preg so early on in my employment. This was not my intention and I really had no forsight that the preg was going to make me so ill and affect my ability to work. I mentioned and even apologised on many occasions for falling preg and for being ill and was reassured at the time by suspended employer that my position was safe.

I did have in the back of my mind that things werent just right but had no proof.

All came to light when I tried claiming a tax rebate and found that my tax had not been paid for the year. Not even the 117 quid that is shown on my one and only payslip from them when I first started!

[mz_pink]

On a more positive note though..had an interview on Fri that went well. I have a 1 in 4 chance of getting it and felt that it really seemed positive.

When asked if I would accept if offered and when I could start that all seemed to me to be very hopeful.

Please keep everything crossed on this one for me..better salary, location and didnt seem perturbed(sp) when I mentioned that there maybe a prob with references from last employer due to an employment dispute. I kinda embelished on that fact, wrong maybe, but made out I was not the only one from the company taking this action :/

[cynic09]

Good news I'd think on the job front. Might have been better to keep the ET thing under your hat tho, since at the moment it isn't actually in process. Besides you may not actually be the only one considering action so you aren't necessarily embelishing

The tax rebate link suggests to me even more that director A and his fraud are very much central to the issue.

I'd pursue the unpaid monies at the ET without claiming dismissal yet, with any luck director B will get hacked off at this as well and dismiss you for being pregnant, easy from then on.

The good thing is your prepared to put it behind you and move on to bigger and better things. I trust all went and is going well with the baby!!!!!! far more important than petty employers:D