TV License - Causing hardship

[Heckler]

The TVLA have a tendency to demand payment well in advance, in my friends case they wanted a full years fee paying in 5 months of £28.50.

 

They were informed that this was not acceptable as she is on benefits and had just moved into her new home. She has kids, no internet and barely scrapes by with no luxuries at all.

 

She told them that she was willing to pay the monthly fee if they divided it into 12 payments, but could not afford that much as it would cause her hardship.

 

She has tried contacting them many times, but they simply don't reply... they just took the money £28.50 from the bank, so she contacted the bank and told them she did not authorise that amount. The bank refunded it and she also cancelled the DD.

 

What would be her next step, they have tried to say that TV stamps at £5.50 per week are the only other alternative, but that is still paying twice as much as she should have to.

 

£142.50 divided by twelve is about 11 payments of £11.87 and one payment of £11.90.

 

Is there a law that states the license must be paid for 6 months in advance? As that is effectively what they are saying, and it's only after 6 months that the monthly amount would reduce to the lower monthly figure.

[andydd]

The TVLA have a tendency to demand payment well in advance, in my friends case they wanted a full years fee paying in 5 months of £28.50.

 

They were informed that this was not acceptable as she is on benefits and had just moved into her new home. She has kids, no internet and barely scrapes by with no luxuries at all.

 

She told them that she was willing to pay the monthly fee if they divided it into 12 payments, but could not afford that much as it would cause her hardship.

 

She has tried contacting them many times, but they simply don't reply... they just took the money £28.50 from the bank, so she contacted the bank and told them she did not authorise that amount. The bank refunded it and she also cancelled the DD.

 

What would be her next step, they have tried to say that TV stamps at £5.50 per week are the only other alternative, but that is still paying twice as much as she should have to.

 

£142.50 divided by twelve is about 11 payments of £11.87 and one payment of £11.90.

 

Is there a law that states the license must be paid for 6 months in advance? As that is effectively what they are saying, and it's only after 6 months that the monthly amount would reduce to the lower monthly figure.

 

I think that paying for the tv licence in installments is nothing to do with 'law' its purely a commercial decision by TV Licensing, they could after all just ask for the whole amount up front.

 

You looked at their website ?

 

Andy

[Heckler]

Finally had a reply

 

10 October, 2009

 

 

Dear *********

 

Thank you for your email.

 

I was sorry to hear that you are unhappy with the Monthly Budget Plan.

 

The amount and frequency of the payment are laid down by Parliament and stipulated in The Communications (Television Licensing) Regulations 2004 (as amended). As agent to the Licensing Authority (the BBC), we have no discretion to alter these payments.

 

Unlike utility bills, which are typically paid for in arrears, the television licence is a fixed annual fee set by government, which is normally paid in full and in advance, at the beginning of the licence year.

 

The Licensing Authority realised the full fee was not always easy for people to find and introduced the several budget schemes to spread the cost.

 

The cost of a full licence is currently £142.50. The Monthly Budget Plan spreads the cost of the licence over twelve months, six before your licence runs out and six after.

 

If when applying you don?t have a licence, we?ll simply take payments for the first licence over six months. In this case the full licence fee was to be debited in five equal payments of £28.50, which totals £142.50. This pays your first licence (valid until the end of August 2010) in full.

 

At this point you are then six months in advance and future licences can be spread over twelve months six before your licence runs out and six after. Future licences continue to be paid in this way, six months in advance, then six months in arrears.

 

These payments are explained on our website when setting up the Monthly Budget Plan and were listed in the payment plan we sent to your address on 14 September.

 

To allow a monthly payment system fully paid in arrears as you have requested would penalise the BBC financially. Instead, paying half of the licence fee six months in advance and the remaining six months in arrears, balances this out and means that no additional cost is added to the licence fee.

 

In contrast, people who choose to pay using our quarterly scheme pay a £5 premium, as they are paying their licence in arrears.

 

We value all feedback from our customers. The details of all complaints made about TV Licensing are fed back to the BBC, and your comments have been recorded as part of our complaints process.

 

Yours sincerely

 

P**e W****y

Customer Relations

Here's a link to the regs they memntion

 

The Communications (Television Licensing) Regulations 2004

 

I've had a quick look but can't see where it specifically states that the license has to be paid in advance by law... and as stated in the reply to my post, is it a commercial decision rather than a lawful one.

 

They tried to make out that paying in areas is financially detrimental to the BBC...but paying in arrears isn't happening if they take the money monthly at the beginning of each month... which is exactly what has been offered to them.

 

 

A reply has been sent asking them to clarify exactly what specific point in law demands payment at up to 6 months in advance for the year... what a surprise that they haven't replied within the time frame they lay out yet again.

 

They claim that people who pay quarterly pay in arrears and yet claim that people paying monthly can't... It doesn't make sense.

 

They also claim that you can pay by license stamps at £5.50 per week, which once again means paying 6 months in advance and penalises those on limited budgets.

 

My friend is really struggling, I've sat down and worked out her budget each month... We've cut back in every area we can, got rid of sky and broadband and I've given her my old freeview box. We've been through utility bills and luckily she's not in arrears with anything, she's got no bank charges she can try and claim back as she's always been careful with money... But since her ex died she's lost the income he was providing for the kids and she's had to give up work as they shared the responsibility for looking after the kids, both making sure they used to have jobs on alternate shifts and so forth.

 

The house is almost paid off as it was partly covered in her ex's will (they had a good relationship after the split and he made sure the kids would have a home)... So it's down to a 30k mortgage and it's just affordable providing interest rates don't start rising in the near future.

 

We've cut the food budget, cut the clothes budget, swapped every single light bulb for an energy efficient one, limited use of certain electrical items such as PC's that consume a lot of power... and after discovering a site that helped pin point the extra wasted power of items left plugged in even whilst switched off... I reckon we've reduced her electrical usage by about 20% based on readings taken over the last couple of weeks.

 

Even doing all that... and making sure she is getting all benefits she is entitled too... She can pay all the bills and have about £2 a week left over... and I can't see any other way to trim more money unless she turns of the central heating, which has just been turned on due to the change in weather.

 

If we pay the TV license the amount they want... which as the bank returned the first payment is now even more each month (she's putting the money aside each month so it's ready to be paid), she will be going over drawn each month... you all know how benefits are paid fortnightly, yet bills are monthly, so we've moved payment dates as best we can to ensure the minimal risk of going overdrawn and incurring charges... but the budget is so slim and tight, that adding the extra £18 a month for the TV means she 'WILL' go overdrawn and risk bank charges.. which she might get back... but not for months... and the risk then is the charges will cause a spiral into debt.

 

All we are asking the TVLA to do is take the payments at the start of each month and that those payments are an accurate amount based on a years license which should be 12 months not 5 or 6 months.

 

She's asked them to give her the details so she can set up a regular payment, but is not willing to allow them a direct debit as they cannot be trusted with it. She's even offered to send them a cheque on the 1st of each month.

 

Suggestions and advice please?

 

Should she just send them the cheque each month, making sure that she is upto date and each payment is paid in advance each month... along with a letter saying that if they bank the cheque it means they agree to the new payment plan.

[Heckler]

Just found this on the communications act 2004 (see highlighted section)

 

I think this part supports my point entirely... Clearly states that the fee can be paid in quarterly payments on the following schedule Date of issues, 8 months remaining, 5 months remaining and 2 months remaining... Providing the payments are made before those dates... I reckon they can't object and there's nothing to stop her putting the money aside each month and paying it that way.

 

 

 

 

FEES FOR TV LICENCES PAYABLE BY INSTALMENTS PART 1 Premium instalment television licence (including colour)

1. - (1) This Part specifies the sums which are payable in respect of a TV licence known as a "Premium instalment licence (including colour)" which is described in the following provisions of this paragraph.

 

(2) A licence of the type referred to in sub-paragraph (1) is a licence of the same description as that given in the second entry of column 2 of the table in Schedule 1 but where payment for the licence is to be made in instalments as provided in this Part.

 

(3) Such a licence is only issued where the place, vehicle, vessel or caravan specified in the licence is in the United Kingdom or the Isle of Man.

 

2. - (1) A first instalment (referred to in this paragraph as "the issue fee") and three further instalments are to be payable in respect of such a TV licence, and the amount of each instalment is to be £31.50.

 

(2) The instalments are to be payable as follows -

 

(a) the issue fee is payable on the date on which the licence is issued;

 

(b) the second instalment is payable on the first day of the calendar month whose last day is 8 months before the date on which the licence expires;

 

© the third instalment is payable on the first day of the calendar month whose last day is 5 months before the date on which the licence expires; and

 

(d) the fourth instalment is payable on the first day of the calendar month whose lasts day ends 2 months before the date on which the licence expires.

 

Completely blows their argument out of the water if my interpretation is correct.

[Conniff]

It says payments in four instalments not 12 and it is laid down in statute law so they cannot change it.

[Consumer dude]

If it was me I would pay one month at a time in advance. I can't see how they can complain, as after all they are getting their money and you are covered. The other issue is about the savings stamps, I thought they had stoped those, but perhaps they have started them again..

[lafey]

just ask for a quarterly direct debit ... 4 payments of 36 quid . paying in advance for each 3 months but not as bad as 28.50 a month for 5 months ..

[danielr]

not that I'm judging you... but when I was younger my parents couldn't afford a TV license, so we got rid of the TV and spent years without it. -until they could afford once again to buy the license...

 

if the license fee really causes your friend hardship then why don't they get rid of their TV for a year, (store it at a friends house) whilst they save up. then they can pay in full with the license fund that they've saved up? and repeat this year on year...

[borisbeaver]

You could use the cash easy-entry scheme and pay weekly.

[andydd]

not that I'm judging you... but when I was younger my parents couldn't afford a TV license, so we got rid of the TV and spent years without it. -until they could afford once again to buy the license...

 

if the license fee really causes your friend hardship then why don't they get rid of their TV for a year, (store it at a friends house) whilst they save up. then they can pay in full with the license fund that they've saved up? and repeat this year on year...

 

 

..or its quite possible to watch almost everything you want via catch up services, iplayer, 4od, etc...via a PC, this doesnt need a TV Licence.

 

There is even a new Sky TV service via the internet where you can pay for what you want, assuming you dont watch anything 'live', a licence wouldnt be needed for this either.

 

Andy

[Heckler]

Thanks for the replies... we did consider the weekly payment one, but even that means paying for the year in 6 months. Work it out, they want something like £5 per week, yet £142 divided by 52 weeks, does not equal £5... more like £2.70. So they're getting their fee early that way too and it's no different from the con they pull via DD.

 

We have however sorted it now, reapplied for a new license via the quarterly payments, and as she had saved the money from the monthly payments... was able to cover it... plus the license starts from the new date, not the old one... so technically she's had nearly 3 months free... and if they want to chase her for it, they'll have to prove she was watching live broadcast TV, and we an email trail thanking them for pointing out she didn't need a license because she wasn't watching live TV.