HSM v BCard Platinum

[slick132]

Hi SS,

 

Can you give some info to update us.

 

1. Date you last made a pay't to the a/c.

 

2. Date a DN was issued for the a/c.

 

We've seen cases here when BC have failed to issue a DN in good time and this should NOT compromise you or your CRA files.

 

[Still_surviving]

Date of last payment was 04.09.09 - have checked...they were taking money by direct debit until I had to cancel the mandate.

 

Received a default notice from Mercers in December 09

 

My CRA shows a default date of August 2010! So even allowing for the possibility of this already being statute barred, I will have to wait

another 9 months before it drops off my file

 

Other consumer sites such as National Debtline and Debt Camel still say its six years from last payment/contact but Im trying to consider

all possibilities and ive always considered this site a wonderful self-help site

[slick132]

Hi SS,

 

You don't need to wait 6 years from when BC or Mercers issued a DN, for the debt to be SB'd. As I said already, if BC or Mercers was slow in issuing a DN, that should not compromise you.

 

Can you confirm, were you making full payments up until Sept 09, or were you making reduced/nominal payments due to inability to pay.

 

If the latter, when was the a/c last being serviced properly each month with you making the required minimum payments.

 

[Still_surviving]

Life had turned a bit rubbish back in late 2006 to the point where I could only make the minimum payment each month (which was not even covering the interest).

 

By Sept 2009 I had discovered this site and CCA'd all my credit cards including this one which dated back to around 1991.

 

Barclays came back with generic terms and conditions at which point I put the account into dispute and stopped payments.

 

I dont feel any guilt now about non payment (I did back then). Yes I used the card for many years and like to think I ran the

account impeccably. When I tried to speak to Barclays for some help, the very first thing they did was jack up the interest rate

from I think 15% to 25%. Any purchases made have long since been paid for and the balance in my eyes comprises fees and

interest.

 

I do have the option of suing Barclays for the charges and restitutionary interest which would probably clear most of the balance -

its just a battle I could do without at the moment. Ive kept quiet and let the account go past six years since last payment hoping

that will be the end of it.

 

As my girlfriend asked when I got the latest letter...."why have MKDP sold your debt on if theres any chance of it being enforceable?"

[slick132]

So up until 2009 you were servicing the a/c adequately each month (even if the minimum pay'ts didn't cover the interest) in accordance with the card requirements.

 

Is that right ?

 

[Still_surviving]

Hi Slick

 

Yes thats correct - BC were taking the minimum payment by DD until I put account into dispute and cancelled the DD mandate.

 

Must admit Im getting confused now....always thought statute barred was six years from date of last payment / contact and thats certainly referred to on sites and

many places on here.

 

However Im now seeing some people on here say its six years from the cause of action....and that could be vastly different in my case

[slick132]

Hi SS,

 

There has been a lot of discussion about the date a debt becomes SB'd.

 

In simple terms, SB is 6 years from when the creditor had cause to demand the full balance after failure to make payments in accordance with the a/c's T&C's.

 

So it is NOT 6 years from the last payment and I'd suggest you wait 3 months from when you first missed a payment before you assume the debt is SB'd.

 

In your case, you could reasonably argue that the DN issued in Dec'r 2009 gave you 14 days to bring the a/c back into good order. And when you failed to do this within the 14 days, THAT is the SB date.

 

The T&C's of the a/c will help you work out what you/we perceive to be the correct SB date. However, the obvious strategy is to just keep your head down and ignore demands until you feel you can safely say the a/c IS SB'd.

 

End of January 2016 should be safe but it could be earlier.

 

[Still_surviving]

Thanks Slick....not exactly what I wanted to hear but will wait and see.

 

Im not sure if you allow links to other sites (if not then please delete), but I am attaching a link to the National Debtline charity factsheet on statute barred debts. They seem to offer contradictory advice, in that they confirm what you have said, but then further on say:

 

https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/factsheets/Pages/25%20EW%20Time%20limits%20for%20recovering%20debts/Page-02.aspx

 

A simple contract debt will normally be statute-barred if:

 

the creditor has not already obtained a county court judgment (CCJ) against you; and

 

you or anyone else owing the money (if your debt is in joint names) have not made a payment towards the debt during the last six years; and

 

you have not written to the creditor admitting you owe the debt during the last six years.

 

 

I assume a credit card agreement falls under the category simple contract debt?

[Still_surviving]

Have a feeling that in order to get some sort of control over this matter, I will need to pursue the charges/restitutionary interest claim mentioned before.

 

By doing this will I be resetting the SB clock?

 

I assume BC would want to get the account back from Hoist / Robbers Way in order to offset any settlement against the balance outstanding

[slick132]

Hi SS,

 

Yes the NDL advice seems to agree with my view but it then contradicts it's own view :-

 

Unsecured credit debts

 

Unsecured credit debts are things like credit cards, store cards, personal loans and catalogues. When using the Limitation Act, these debts are often called ‘simple contract debts’.

 

The Limitation Act says that the limitation period for simple contract debts is six years.

 

The cause of action (when the limitation period starts running) for simple contract debts, is usually when your agreement says the creditor is able to take court action because you have fallen behind with payments. This will usually be after one or two missed payments. Sometimes, a debt will have no set repayment time. For these sorts of debts, working out the cause of action is more difficult. Contact us for advice.

 

A simple contract debt will normally be statute-barred if:

 

the creditor has not already obtained a county court judgment (CCJ) against you; and

 

you or anyone else owing the money (if your debt is in joint names) have not made a payment towards the debt during the last six years; and

 

you have not written to the creditor admitting you owe the debt during the last six years.

 

If NDL offer conflicting advice, no wonder there is debate on the matter !! THIS is why we tell folk to err on the side of caution and avoid saying, "The debt is SB'd 6 years after my last pay't."

 

Can you do a 24.9% compound int't spreadsheet listing all penalty chgs. Let us know how the total reclaim compares with the a/c balance. Then we can consider your options.

 

[Still_surviving]

Hi Slick

 

Just so you know, I value this site's advice above all others, and yours in particular has helped me overcome some very large obstacles

 

I only mentioned the NDL site as its a biggie, and perhaps the first people might go to for info if they werent aware of CAG.

 

As Ive previously mentioned on my thread, the last time I did the spreadsheet calc it took a £9k chunk out of a £10k debt.....to be absolutely honest, I was hoping I could limp across the SB finishing line without the extra battle of taking on Barclays. Im certainly not afraid of the fight, but have so much work on at the moment its hard to free up sufficient time.

 

I will update my sheet using 24.9% and let you know

[slick132]

Hi SS,

 

No problem at all with you quoting the NDL advice. It shows the matter is not simply black and white - there are grey areas.

 

Let us know about the spready figures when you can. You may not necessarily need to take on the court battle UNLESS the other side take court action first. But it would be wise to know where you stand, just in case.

 

[Still_surviving]

Had a letter from Robbers Way today stating they were about to transfer my case to Howerd Cohen solicitors, for the consideration of legal action.

 

If they are going to do this, will I get a Letter Before Action first, or just the claim form dropping through my door?

 

Slightly in limbo at the moment......6 years and 3 months since my last payment, however end-January is what Slick suggested as SB date to be safe.

[slick132]

Hi SS,

 

H Cohen should give you warning of what they say they'll do.

 

The longer this goes on, the better it is for you.

 

Keep us posted and let us know about how the spreadsheet looks as regards penalty charges.

 

[Still_surviving]

Wonderful.....got a letter today from Howard Cohen Solicitors today dated 02.01.16 giving me 10 days to make payment else legal proceedings will be commenced without further notice.

 

Kind of hard to make payment (if I wanted to) when the deadline has already passed.

 

Last payment on the account was 10.10.09 having just double checked, and Mercers issued a default notice on the 11.01.10

 

Its all very tight on the SB front, and it seems rather convenient that Howard Cohens letter supposedly takes 11 days to arrive.

 

Will look at my charges spreadsheet asap and post results here

[Still_surviving]

Updated charges spreadsheet is £11761 using 29.99% or £7560 using 24.99%

 

Soime of the charges date back to 2001/02....could be fun finding the barclaycard statements in storage. I know the charges were made because I have used banking software since 1999 and all the charges are shown in there.

 

Could someone point me in the right direction for next step?

 

Also are these claims having any success.....the couple of threads Ive had chance to read have gone rather quiet

[slick132]

Hi SS,

 

I'd sit tight for now and do nothing.

 

You've already said you'd rather avoid making a claim for the refund of penalty charges. And the longer you delayed that process, the harder it gets to claim back the older charges.

 

As each day passes, your SB position improves so let H Cohen do what they want for now. If they actually DO issue a court claim, you can defend on the basis of the a/c being SB'd.

 

[Still_surviving]

Thanks slick as always your advice is very welcome

 

Would also mention that I only ever got generic terms and conditions when I did my CCA request many years ago, and I would be very surprised if they have the agreement given it was taken out in the 1980s

[Still_surviving]

Decided to CCA Robbers Way a week ago to see if they would come up with my agreement this time....after all they have threatened legal action via Cohens

 

Standard response received today...."Have to request paperwork from original creditor.....account on hold pending receipt....blah blah"

 

Amazing how these people can embark on legal action with the most important piece of evidence missing

[Still_surviving]

Hi Slick

 

Today I received a response to my CCA request direct from Barclaycard.

 

 

Whilst the letter contains nothing much that hasnt been seen on these forums many times before, there were two things of interest:

 

(i) They openly admit that "due to circumstances beyond our control, we no longer hold a copy of your executed agreement". Hmmm who does control storage of agreements then?

 

(ii) They make reference to Regulation 9 of the CNC regulations, the gist of which seems to be that for old agreements, they can just send copies of terms and conditions. I guess this is for S77/78 purposes but not for enforcement? However, you always run the risk of getting a judge who pays no attention to such things and allows it.

 

 

Even more amusing was the fact that nothing was actually enclosed with the letter....so round we go again with letters to B/Card and Robbers Way.

[Still_surviving]

BCard.pdf

 

Here is the letter I referred to....didnt realise things had to be PDF these days

[Still_surviving]

Ultimately though, I firmly believe that this whole debt is now statute barred. Given the following key dates, would you not agree?

 

Last payment : 10th October 2009

 

Default Note Issued : 11th January 2010

 

Date Stated on Default Note to rectify breach : 28th January 2010.

 

 

I must admit I was getting twitchy each day the postman came up to the end of January, but given their lack of legal action, I dont see how this debt can now be enforceable

[slick132]

Hi SS,

 

At the end of post #45, you suggest you'll send more letters to BC and Rob'n Way.

 

Why bother - there's probably nothing they can do now.

 

Monitor what Rob'n Way do, but you don't need to respond to every letter.

 

Same goes for BC - I see no need to respond to their letter.